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Reply 20 of 49, by matze79

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Well, i have some SDR Variants and they indeed have T&L disabled but mine are all LowProfil Cards from some OEM PCs.

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Reply 21 of 49, by feipoa

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Does anyone happen to know what driver version for the RV100 might be most optimised for a Celeron 450 in w98 and w2k? I just tried some random older driver and the benchmark scores were much worse.

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Reply 22 of 49, by RandomStranger

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feipoa wrote on 2021-10-20, 12:05:

Does anyone happen to know what driver version for the RV100 might be most optimised for a Celeron 450 in w98 and w2k? I just tried some random older driver and the benchmark scores were much worse.

Early ATI drivers used to suck. Over the graphics card's life time it wasn't uncommon that their performance doubled. It's a different sort of issue than with nvidia where you use early drivers because of CPU overhead. With ATI you generally NEED late drivers.

sreq.png

Reply 24 of 49, by zapbuzz

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Did someone say Dell? is it retro? because the PSU in dell retro are so pultry is why sometime they be dubbed as "smell" as in call the fire brigade. Might like to be sure is all.
so many say have 320 watt because they are spammers but only 70% of that is ever delivered as rating is peak; get 500 minimum then it'll last 10 years. No mains line is 100% thus my advice pretty much global advice. Retro is harder to get and we wanna make it last.

Reply 25 of 49, by feipoa

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zapbuzz wrote on 2021-10-20, 18:07:

Did someone say Dell? is it retro? because the PSU in dell retro are so pultry is why sometime they be dubbed as "smell" as in call the fire brigade. Might like to be sure is all.
so many say have 320 watt because they are spammers but only 70% of that is ever delivered as rating is peak; get 500 minimum then it'll last 10 years. No mains line is 100% thus my advice pretty much global advice. Retro is harder to get and we wanna make it last.

Looks retro to me. I put one of these reproduction Celeron stickers on the case.

I remember checking the PSU but didn't find any bulging caps. I don't have anything high power in there.

Thanks, I guess I'll stick with the newest drivers. That saves me a lot of time.

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Reply 26 of 49, by feipoa

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Any stats on how far the RV100 will overclock reliably? I have these two PCI RV100 cards:

Diamond RV6P version 1.0
with DVI, VGA, composite
64 MB
smaller heatsink
GPU at 133 MHz
RAM at 133 MHz (266 MHz effective)

ATI 109-85500-00
VGA only
32 MB
larger heatsink
GPU at 166 MHz
RAM at 166 MHz (333 MHz effective)

I was surprised to discover that card with DVI and more memory is clocked quite a bit slower, which yields 10 fps less in GLQuake. I see on wiki that RV100 is nominally 183 MHz. I'm guessing that these card are clocked slower to be passive. If I add a small fan, do you think they both could do 190 MHz?

Was there a free ATI clocking tweak utility? Looks like Powerstrip makes you uninstall/reinstall every 30 days if you don't pay for it.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2021-10-08, 16:48:

Ok, booted up Radeon 7000 PCI once again on my Athlon XP 3000+ KT333 setup, Catalyst 3.8, Windows 98 SE.

3DMark 2000 is reporting active hardware TnL and chooses it by default. MDK2 also drops FPS when I set hardware TnL, which may sound strange, but it actually indicates that it's working.

I installed Catalyst 3.8 and 3DMark2000, but I only see software T&L available.

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Reply 27 of 49, by Putas

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feipoa wrote on 2021-10-22, 13:30:

I was surprised to discover that card with DVI and more memory is clocked quite a bit slower, which yields 10 fps less in GLQuake. I see on wiki that RV100 is nominally 183 MHz. I'm guessing that these card are clocked slower to be passive. If I add a small fan, do you think they both could do 190 MHz?

Was there a free ATI clocking tweak utility? Looks like Powerstrip makes you uninstall/reinstall every 30 days if you don't pay for it.

That is rather typical for that era to lower the memory frequency of higher capacity.
183 MHz was the standard set by Ati cards and other vendors might even be discouraged to reach that high.
Active cooling is not needed. It is up to you to determine how high can they go. Memory will probably be the limiter.
I never noticed such behavior with Powerstrip. From version three it will increase the delay of its start the longer you hesitate to pay, but functions anyway.

Reply 28 of 49, by feipoa

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I tried overclocking the 133 Mhz card using Powerstrip, but the bars don't go above 177 MHz. On the 166 Mhz card, I can take it beyond 190 Mhz. hmm...

I tried running the 133 MHz card at 166 Mhz and benchmarked it against the 166 Mhz card, but the 133 Mhz card (at 166 Mhz) is still slower than the 166 MHz card. I'm guessing I need to adjust the memory timings for the card too.

It may depend on the Powerstrip version. I didn't see the wait period increasing.

EDIT: Looks like there is something called ATItool, but it doesn't work in w98. https://www.techpowerup.com/atitool/

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Reply 29 of 49, by Paadam

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I have Radeon 7000 PCI 64MB (with VGA and DVI) made for Sun that I flashed with PC BIOS, works nicely but bried testing on my Pentium Pro 233 MHz Compaq system showed unimpressive performance. Not sure whether it was due to slow CPU, lower clocks of the card (have not verified it yet) or both.
I stuck it to my CUR-DLS instead with dual 1 GHz Coppermines, will test it at some point later.

Many 3Dfx and Pentium III-S stuff.
My amibay FS thread: www.amibay.com/showthread.php?88030-Man ... -370-dual)

Reply 31 of 49, by matze79

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Paadam wrote on 2021-10-23, 07:15:

I have Radeon 7000 PCI 64MB (with VGA and DVI) made for Sun that I flashed with PC BIOS, works nicely but bried testing on my Pentium Pro 233 MHz Compaq system showed unimpressive performance. Not sure whether it was due to slow CPU, lower clocks of the card (have not verified it yet) or both.
I stuck it to my CUR-DLS instead with dual 1 GHz Coppermines, will test it at some point later.

Hey i tried the opposite and it did not work, flashing Radeon 64Mb to XVR-100 haha 😀
i thought there where something special about it.

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Reply 32 of 49, by feipoa

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2021-10-23, 08:47:

Perfect, it works! Unfortunately, it only allows for 30% max overclock. Do you know if there is a way to go beyond this limit? It lets the 133 MHz Radeon 7000 run at 173 MHz max. There's no issue at 173 MHz and I think it can go higher. I tried my 32 MB, 166 MHz Radeon 7000 at 190 MHz and it seemed fine for the benchmarks I ran it at.

I have Rage3D Tweaker setup in w98, w2k, and xp, however, neither Rage3D Tweaker nor ATItool worked in NT4. After installing Rage3D Tweaker in NT4, I get the following when I try to run the application: The procedure entry point GetMonitorInfoA could not be located in the dynamic link library USER32.dll. After installing ATItool in NT4, I get the error upon running the application: The procedure entry point GetMonitorInfoA could not be located in the dynamic link library PSAPI.DLL

I then tried all version of PowerStrip I could find because Powerstrip supports NT4. A version from 1999 I tried says it doesn't support my ATI card. Version 2.78 shows incorrect values for the GPU and memory, like 290 MHz. Adjusting this value does nothing. Version 3.20 shows the clock at 57 MHz, but adjusting the bars and hitting apply, the clock stays at "57 MHz". Same issue for v3.73 except Powerstrip thinks the clocks are at 118 MHz. v3.90 won't run and returns this error upon loading: Access violation at address 00000000. Read of address 00000000.

Even when I tried Powerstrip v3.20 in w98, it would show the correct GPU/memory speeds, however increasing the speeds resulted in substantially lower benchmark results in GLQuake, e.g. from 51 down to 29 fps.

Is there any other GPU tweak tool for NT4 that supports the Radeon 7000?

EDIT: Or any way to adjust the clock values on the card's eeprom without removing the IC?

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Reply 34 of 49, by feipoa

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How do I set the config file speeds in PowerStrip?

Below is the view I see when using PowersStrip 3.73 in NT4. Notice how all the OpenGL/D3D configuration information is missing. Also notice how it is reporting the speed as 118 MHz instead of 133 MHz.

PowerStrip_3.73_NT4_Celeron433.png
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I am using the following ATI driver version w/NT4. I'm not sure if the driver versions is what is causing missing information in PowerStrip. I'm also not sure if there is a newer NT4 driver from ATI. ATI isn't showing NT4 drivers on their website so this driver is from my own archive.

NT4 driver version: 4.3.4013
NT4 Catalyst? version: 7.70-020418m-003815C-ATI

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In looking at the file list, I suppose I am meant to edit pstrip.ini under the heading:
DefaultClocks=117992,117992,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
and
[Performance defaults]
HW.47421002.41528086.0100=117992,117992,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0

Editing the value of 117992 to, say, 166500 in both of those fields has no effect. Everest still shows the GPU/mem clock at 133 MHz. Perhaps there is something about this ATI driver version that Powerstrip cannot handle. Is there an archive of old ATI NT4 Radeon drivers?

The ini file is shown below:

[Global Options]
Language=English
Windows=4.0.1381.2.Service Pack 6
Build=579
ActiveHWStatus=1
Mechanism32=0
DetectedID=51591002.00.14
FileSize=722176
LastShutdown.feipoa.CELERON-NT4=0
RestoreOnStartup=0
Hotkeys=0
AutoOSD=0
CompactMemory=0
HardwareID=476C6F62616C204F7074696F6E73
QuickSetup=1
uHloc=1,1023,2,1024
NT.User=0
TD=365,364,5

[Driver]
Key=\\Services\Pstrip
KeyExists=0
Start=0
File=C:\WINNT\System32\drivers\pstrip.sys
FileFound=1
FileSize=27936

[Devices]
FF=PCI00000,PCI00004,PCI00008,PCI0000C,PCI00010,PCI00014,PCI00018,PCI0001C,PCI00020,PCI00024,PCI0002C,PCI00030,PCI00034,PCI0003C,CAP00010,CAP00011,CAP00012,CAP00013,CAP00014,CAP00020,CAP00021,CAP00022,CAP00023,CAP00024,CAP00030,CAP00031,CAP00032,CAP00033,CAP00034,CAP00040,CAP00041,CAP00042,CAP00043,CAP00044,SLOT
00=71908086,22100106,06000003,00004000,EC000008,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,000000A0,00000000,00100002,1F000203,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,0000
01=71918086,0220011F,06040003,00014000,00000000,00000000,40010100,22A09090,E9F0E810,0000FFF0,00000000,00000000,00000000,00840000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,0008
02=71108086,0280000F,06010002,00800000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,0038
03=71118086,02800005,01018001,00004000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00001C21,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,0039
04=71128086,02800005,0C030001,00004000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00001C01,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000409,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,003A
05=71138086,02800003,06800002,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,003B
06=000D1073,02100006,04010003,00004000,E8010000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,41528086,00000000,00000050,19050109,04010001,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,0060
07=51591002,02900187,03000000,00004208,F0000008,00001001,E8000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,2049148C,00000000,00000050,0008010B,06020001,00000000,00205002,2F000200,00000200,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,0070
08=4C001186,02B00117,02000011,0000BD08,E8018000,00001401,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,4C001186,00000000,00000048,1F17010A,FE025001,0C002E00,80000003,00000000,00040000,80000003,00000000,00040000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,0078
09=81789004,02900117,01000001,00004008,00001801,E801C000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,78819004,00000000,000000DC,0808010B,00210001,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,0080
0A=47421002,02900084,0300005C,00004208,E9000000,00009001,E8100000,00000000,00000000,00000000,41528086,00000000,00000050,0008010B,00100002,FF000203,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,00000000,0100

[DSP_DDA]
3581=FFFFFFFF,FFFFFFFF
7378=FFFFFFFF,FFFFFFFF
7162=FFFFFFFF,FFFFFFFF

[HW.47421002.41528086.0100]
MonitorNo=0
Driver=ati2dvag.dll 4.3.4013
RefClk=29
EDID=0
MonitorType=Default Monitor (Microsoft)
MonitorCaps1=1600x1200 (75kHz/85Hz)
DefaultClocks=117992,117992,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
DefaultSettings=1280,1024,32,60,0

[Display Profile]
Display defaults=Display defaults

[Display defaults]
Show last 33 lines
HW.47421002.41528086.0100=1280,1024,32,60,0

[Color Profile]
Color defaults=Color defaults

[Color defaults]
HW.47421002.41528086.0100=0,0,0,0,0,0,50,50,50,20,0,0

[Performance Profile]
Performance defaults=Performance defaults

[Performance defaults]
HW.47421002.41528086.0100=117992,117992,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0

[Hotkey Definitions]
24=115
59=103
78=105
74=106
31=110
25=112

[Debug_HW.47421002.41528086.0100]
DeviceNo=0
AdapterName=Radeon VE
DeviceName=\\.\DISPLAY1
DeviceID=PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4742
DisplayClassKey=SYSTEM\CONTROLSET001\SERVICES\ATI2MTAG\DEVICE0
ChipID=11
PCIID=47421002
SubID=41528086
FuncNo=0100
BaseAddress=E9000000

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Reply 35 of 49, by feipoa

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I have found an application for Windows NT 4.0 that works with my Radeon for overclocking. It is called RadeonTweak. I am using v1.0.3 from, https://sourceforge.net/projects/radeontweake … r%20-%20Stable/

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It work straight away without any fiddling. Also the overclock bar isn't limited to a 30% overclock, which was the case for PowerStrip and Rage3D Tweak. I ran a few benchmarks at different synchronous gpu/memory speeds. NT4 GLQuake benchmark results w/sound ON at 1280x1024x32bit are below. 133 Mhz is the default speed.

133 mhz : 44.1 fps
166 mhz : 49.9 fps
174 mhz : 50.9 fps
185 mhz : 52.2 fps
190 mhz : 52.8 fps
200 mhz : 54.1 fps

Since the results keep increasing, I am guessing that the Celeron Mendocino 450 MHz isn't hindering the graphics card. At 200 MHz, after I ran 3 rounds of Quake 3's timedemo, I measured the temperature of the VRM which I think is for the memory chips and it was 86 C, which I think is a bit risky. At 185 MHz, it got up to 72 C. I think I'm going to add a small fan to it.

It would be nice to know how far these RV100 cards can be overclocked without burning out. Anyone have any stats? For now, I'm setting my preferred clock rate to 185 MHz.

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Reply 36 of 49, by feipoa

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Because of the heat observed on the VRM, I decided to add some small fans to the card. It is barely single slot wide. The VRM stays under 44 C with the fan, even at 200 MHz.

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Last edited by feipoa on 2021-10-24, 13:42. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 37 of 49, by zapbuzz

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overclocking is where not tested listings on eBay come from.
i knew a guy whom got a pentium 3 dell tower and immediately put a faster cpu , gpu, more ram an SSD plus extra capacity hard disk.
Given the system was just on 12 years old the PSU gave an awesome ball of smoke after initiating self destruct.
Fans on a PCI GPU? ok well maybe it'll last but I wouldn't count on overclocking.

Last edited by zapbuzz on 2021-10-24, 15:03. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 38 of 49, by The Serpent Rider

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Will last 10+ more years, since there's no voltage increase.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me

Reply 39 of 49, by zapbuzz

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I ran my SIS 6326 pci card on a pentium II then a pentium 4 I noticed it was a bit hotter on the pentium 4 so i can see why a fan on pci.
I have to post this picture though 🤣

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