VOGONS


First post, by psaez

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I mean the typical guide with versions comparison, partition size, required steps etc...

For example, I am not sure about which format do I need... fat16 or fat32.

Also I am not sure about if it should be installed after installing first MSDOS, because I remember that in the old computer my parents did use 30 years ago, it started first on MSDOS and it was necessary to execute WIN.EXE or something similar.

Thanks

EDIT: thanks for the answers... more questions: Which version is better? Also, I got various graphics cards, for example, Gforce 4 MX 440, Voodoo 3 3000, TNT2, Gforce 3 ti 200... all of them AGP How can I install drivers for those graphics cards on MSDOS 6.22 and Windows 3.11?

Last edited by psaez on 2024-04-14, 22:16. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 17, by Shponglefan

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Windows 3.11 runs on top of DOS, so you'd start by setting up a FAT16 partition, install DOS, then install Windows 3.11.

Depending on your video card and sound card, you may also need to install video and sound drivers.

To run Windows, you boot into DOS and launch WIN.EXE.

That's about it. It's very straightforward to set up.

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Reply 2 of 17, by Dan386DX

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Not much to add to Shponglefan's answer.

Create hard drive partition, (max 2048MB) FAT 16, then install DOS, then Windows 3.1.

In its default state, you will need to type WIN from DOS to load Windows each time you run the PC. You can have it do this automatically by adding a line to your autoexec.bat file.

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Reply 3 of 17, by StriderTR

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To add to what Shponglefan said.

If you need to manually change settings or install video drivers for windows, then you navigate to the folder you have Windows installed to in DOS, then run setup.exe.

Normally, that's "C:\Windows\".

For example, here is my Windows 3.11 setup and how I installed my S3 Virge video drivers.

Once in the setup you can scroll down to "Display", click on that, then scroll to the bottom of the list and select "Other", follow the prompts.

Once you get in there and play around, it is indeed pretty straightforward. 😀

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Reply 4 of 17, by psaez

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Which version is better?

Also, I got various graphics cards, for example, Gforce 4 MX 440, Voodoo 3 3000, TNT2, Gforce 3 ti 200... all of them AGP

How can I install drivers for those graphics cards on MSDOS 6.22 and Windows 3.11?

Thanks

Reply 6 of 17, by Shponglefan

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psaez wrote on 2024-04-14, 22:16:

Also, I got various graphics cards, for example, Gforce 4 MX 440, Voodoo 3 3000, TNT2, Gforce 3 ti 200... all of them AGP

How can I install drivers for those graphics cards on MSDOS 6.22 and Windows 3.11?

I believe that the TNT2 was the last nVidia card to have official Windows 3.1/3.11 drivers.

For the GeForce cards, you can use the SVGA driver patch from the Vogons driver library: https://www.vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=1914

I've been using it with a GeForce4 4200 Ti and Windows 3.11.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
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486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 7 of 17, by myne

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Heh. Timing.
Dos+Windows 3.11 auto-install iso template (for vmware)

Things I built:
Mechwarrior 2 installer for Windows 10/11 Re: A comprehensive guide to install and play MechWarrior 2 on new versions on Windows.
Dos+Windows 3.11 auto-install iso template (for vmware)

Reply 8 of 17, by dormcat

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psaez wrote on 2024-04-14, 22:16:

Which version is better?

Versions of what?

psaez wrote on 2024-04-14, 22:16:

Also, I got various graphics cards, for example, Gforce 4 MX 440, Voodoo 3 3000, TNT2, Gforce 3 ti 200... all of them AGP

IMHO those AGP cards were too new for Windows 3.1x: Not all cards came with Win3.1x drivers, although you might be able to use generic drivers.

psaez wrote on 2024-04-14, 22:16:

How can I install drivers for those graphics cards on MSDOS 6.22 and Windows 3.11?

StriderTR already explained Windows driver installation. As for DOS, some late-DOS games might require VESA compatible mode (for 640x480 or higher resolution) and, depending on make and model of the graphics card, might require loading a VESA driver before running the game. I haven't played any specific game with this requirement (i.e. either generic VESA provided by the game or selectable during installation), however.

Just curious: What's the model of your motherboard and which game(s) do you plan to play? Very few DOS games require the power of TNT2, let alone GF or Voodoo3, unless you are building a hybrid system with multiple bootup options.

Reply 9 of 17, by psaez

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dormcat wrote on 2024-04-15, 01:56:
Versions of what? […]
Show full quote
psaez wrote on 2024-04-14, 22:16:

Which version is better?

Versions of what?

psaez wrote on 2024-04-14, 22:16:

Also, I got various graphics cards, for example, Gforce 4 MX 440, Voodoo 3 3000, TNT2, Gforce 3 ti 200... all of them AGP

IMHO those AGP cards were too new for Windows 3.1x: Not all cards came with Win3.1x drivers, although you might be able to use generic drivers.

psaez wrote on 2024-04-14, 22:16:

How can I install drivers for those graphics cards on MSDOS 6.22 and Windows 3.11?

StriderTR already explained Windows driver installation. As for DOS, some late-DOS games might require VESA compatible mode (for 640x480 or higher resolution) and, depending on make and model of the graphics card, might require loading a VESA driver before running the game. I haven't played any specific game with this requirement (i.e. either generic VESA provided by the game or selectable during installation), however.

Just curious: What's the model of your motherboard and which game(s) do you plan to play? Very few DOS games require the power of TNT2, let alone GF or Voodoo3, unless you are building a hybrid system with multiple bootup options.

I mean which version of windows 3.11, there are 3.1, 3.11, 3.1 for workgroups, 3.11 for workgroups etc... probably different subversions like windows 95 osr2, osr2.1, etc... I wanna know which is better and why

I will use this:

- Tualatin 1400S
- DFI CA64-TC
- 512 RAM
- SD to IDE adapter (or sata to IDE adapter)
- Gforce 3 Ti 200 (or voodoo 3 3000)

It will be a multiretro system with 3.11, 95, 98 etc...

3.11 will be used to play msdos games

Reply 10 of 17, by darry

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psaez wrote on 2024-04-15, 06:27:
I mean which version of windows 3.11, there are 3.1, 3.11, 3.1 for workgroups, 3.11 for workgroups etc... probably different sub […]
Show full quote
dormcat wrote on 2024-04-15, 01:56:
Versions of what? […]
Show full quote
psaez wrote on 2024-04-14, 22:16:

Which version is better?

Versions of what?

psaez wrote on 2024-04-14, 22:16:

Also, I got various graphics cards, for example, Gforce 4 MX 440, Voodoo 3 3000, TNT2, Gforce 3 ti 200... all of them AGP

IMHO those AGP cards were too new for Windows 3.1x: Not all cards came with Win3.1x drivers, although you might be able to use generic drivers.

psaez wrote on 2024-04-14, 22:16:

How can I install drivers for those graphics cards on MSDOS 6.22 and Windows 3.11?

StriderTR already explained Windows driver installation. As for DOS, some late-DOS games might require VESA compatible mode (for 640x480 or higher resolution) and, depending on make and model of the graphics card, might require loading a VESA driver before running the game. I haven't played any specific game with this requirement (i.e. either generic VESA provided by the game or selectable during installation), however.

Just curious: What's the model of your motherboard and which game(s) do you plan to play? Very few DOS games require the power of TNT2, let alone GF or Voodoo3, unless you are building a hybrid system with multiple bootup options.

I mean which version of windows 3.11, there are 3.1, 3.11, 3.1 for workgroups, 3.11 for workgroups etc... probably different subversions like windows 95 osr2, osr2.1, etc... I wanna know which is better and why

I will use this:

- Tualatin 1400S
- DFI CA64-TC
- 512 RAM
- SD to IDE adapter (or sata to IDE adapter)
- Gforce 3 Ti 200 (or voodoo 3 3000)

It will be a multiretro system with 3.11, 95, 98 etc...

3.11 will be used to play msdos games

You can play DOS games under the actual DOS that you would be running Windows 3.11 under.

You can run those DOS games just as well under the DOS that comes bundled with Windows 95 or 98 .

If you intend to run DOS games under Windows, please consider that Windows 95 and 98 will be more compatible than Windows 3.11.

None of this is meant to discourage you from Windows 3.11, just to inform you (apologies if I am stating what you akready knew).

As for differences between Windows 3.x versions : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_3.1

Reply 11 of 17, by Dominus

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And best to play DOS games in DOS and not from within Windows (be it 3.x or 95+). You will run into problems eventually.

Use Windows 3.x for Windows 3.x games 😀

And just for games Windows 3.1 is enough.

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
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Reply 12 of 17, by dionb

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psaez wrote on 2024-04-15, 06:27:

[...]

I mean which version of windows 3.11, there are 3.1, 3.11, 3.1 for workgroups, 3.11 for workgroups etc... probably different subversions like windows 95 osr2, osr2.1, etc... I wanna know which is better and why

"Better" is always a subjective qualification.

Windows for Workgroups has networking support built in, without it no networking out-of-the-box.

Windows 3.11 added some networking bugfixes over 3.1, allowed 32-bit file access (if drivers supported it) and could run inside OS/2 Warp.

The only downside of WfW and 3.11 is that they are bigger and slightly resource-heavier than vanilla 3.1, and already ran fine on a 486 with 16MB. Seeing as you have *slightly* more powerful haredware there's no reason not to go for WfW 3.11.

I will use this: […]
Show full quote

I will use this:

- Tualatin 1400S
- DFI CA64-TC
- 512 RAM
- SD to IDE adapter (or sata to IDE adapter)
- Gforce 3 Ti 200 (or voodoo 3 3000)

It will be a multiretro system with 3.11, 95, 98 etc...

You will have multiple challenges with that hardware:

- no native drivers so no accelerated VGA support for th Gf3
- 512MB RAM is too much, you might need to look into memory managers that can lower it to say 64MB
- FAT16 can handle max 2GB partitions. You will probably need a dedicated (small) drive for DOS/Win3.11. Alternately you can use DOS 7.1 and then patch it (IO.SYS) to be able to install Windows 3.11 and then patch Windows 3.11 to be able to work with FAT32. So can be done, but non-trivial, see:
Making Windows 3.11 work in DOS7.10 (patches inside)

3.11 will be used to play msdos games

While it's possible to run DOS apps from within Win3.11, compatibility is far lower than within say Win9x. Don't expect many games to work. Use native DOS instead (remember that Win3.x is just a shell running on top of DOS, you first boot into DOS before running Windows and you can exit Windows to get to DOS).

Reply 13 of 17, by myne

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myne wrote on 2024-04-14, 22:39:

Op: I suggest you play with that in vmware first. If you happen to make it perfect, it's easy to back it up and restore it to real hardware.

Things I built:
Mechwarrior 2 installer for Windows 10/11 Re: A comprehensive guide to install and play MechWarrior 2 on new versions on Windows.
Dos+Windows 3.11 auto-install iso template (for vmware)

Reply 14 of 17, by Dominus

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Yeah, I‘m running my 30 years old perfect WfW install (with Norton Desktop) in DOSBox nowadays. Only needed to rip out some drivers.

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox
DOSBox SVN snapshot for macOS (10.4-11.x ppc/intel 32/64bit) notarized for gatekeeper

Reply 15 of 17, by Jo22

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.. and if plain MS-DOS is too cumbersome, there are still GUis like DOS Shell (found in DOS 5.0 and 6.0), Norton Commander, GEM or Geoworks Ensemble.
They can be used to run games very easily. Not typing required. They all have mouse support, too.

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Reply 16 of 17, by dormcat

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psaez wrote on 2024-04-15, 06:27:
I will use this: […]
Show full quote

I will use this:

- Tualatin 1400S
- DFI CA64-TC
- 512 RAM
- SD to IDE adapter (or sata to IDE adapter)
- Gforce 3 Ti 200 (or voodoo 3 3000)

It will be a multiretro system with 3.11, 95, 98 etc...

Wow you sure have some really nice stuff. In that case I'd recommend you assemble another dedicated system for DOS, preferably a Socket 7 build capable of turning L1/L2 caches on or off, with no more than 64 MB RAM. The more periods you want to squeeze into one single system, the more problems you'll face.

psaez wrote on 2024-04-15, 06:27:

3.11 will be used to play msdos games

I also agree with other users: Win3.11 is NOT suitable for DOS gaming. I dare say that even Win95 was not quite ready for gaming as many mainstream DOS games were released as late as 1997, when DirectX 5 became available and gradually more recognized than earlier versions.

Reply 17 of 17, by Shponglefan

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dionb wrote on 2024-04-15, 09:55:

- 512MB RAM is too much, you might need to look into memory managers that can lower it to say 64MB

AFAIK, too much RAM is only an issue above 2 GB.

I've got 2GB installed and both DOS and Windows 3.11 run without issues or any special patches or memory managers.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards