renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-21, 20:25:

I really want a ISA authentic Sound Blaster 16 with real OPL3, but i will wait a few months.

You may want to read this thread before buying a SB16. Not saying that you shouldn't get one, just that you should be aware of the issues that you might encounter.

In the meantime, if you want to try out 16-bit sound in DOS, you can use the native AudioDrive mode of your ESS card in games which support it. I go into more detail about that here.

I would love to have a Pentium Pro! Definitely you shouldn't let that opportunity go since those things are not that common and are somewhat desireable.

As for the graphics cards, that's expected. PCs usually come with the cheapest cards. What you find nowadays corresponds with the quantities sold back in the day.

About that Presario 5660, I'm not sure if it's already a model that has a proper BIOS setup, but at least some older Compaqs have the setup program on a hidden partition in the disk drive, so you have to be careful when formatting it or swapping in another HDD.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-08-21, 21:21:

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-21, 20:25:

I really want a ISA authentic Sound Blaster 16 with real OPL3, but i will wait a few months.

You may want to read this thread before buying a SB16. Not saying that you shouldn't get one, just that you should be aware of the issues that you might encounter.

In the meantime, if you want to try out 16-bit sound in DOS, you can use the native AudioDrive mode of your ESS card in games which support it. I go into more detail about that here.

Thanks a lot, i read the two topics.

I have a big problem with the P3 733mhz. He stops working after 1 day and do 8 beep at boot. The Amibios 8 beeps say a videocard display write read problem. After more inspection, We noticed 4 bad caps , 2 near agp slot. My father was a electronic technician and works in differents computers shop to repaired defect motherboard and pc components, so its the good person to try to repair my motherboard 😉 he did change the 4 caps, but the pc still do 8 beeps. I tried 8 differents agp videocards and 1 trident pci videocard, but the same 8 beeps happen. We tried 5 differents dimm. We reset the bios jumper. We removed the battery. We tried another working power suppIy. we tried the p3 800mhz cpu in it with good jumper setting for this cpu. same 8 beeps. i checked again all jumper switch ( and cpu too), all of them are correct. we tried the computer with no other pci cards and no dvd and no hard disk connected, same problem. we cleaned the agp slot and checked the contacts. I think the motherboard is dead, my father thinks the same thing. Any ideas ? thanks guys ! ( at least i dont care too much about it, i prefer my other P3 computer at 800mhz with slot 1 and asus board. so dont worry too much guys)

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-08-21, 21:21:

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-21, 20:25:

I really want a ISA authentic Sound Blaster 16 with real OPL3, but i will wait a few months.

You may want to read this thread before buying a SB16. Not saying that you shouldn't get one, just that you should be aware of the issues that you might encounter.

In the meantime, if you want to try out 16-bit sound in DOS, you can use the native AudioDrive mode of your ESS card in games which support it. I go into more detail about that here.

devius wrote on 2020-08-21, 10:14:

I don't know if it's better, but one good thing that ESS Audiodrive soundcards have is that they don't require any drivers or TSRs for DOS. They just work.

I tried the isa Ess 1869f and unfortunately the sound quality is not very good in dos games and windows too VS Crystal CS4236b.

The quality difference is big.
i tried these dos games:
Keen4 and Jazz Jackrabbit
i tried these Windows 98 games:
Need for speed III HP, NFS HP 2, Lorsche Unleashed.

Is it any way to get the sound quality better?
thanks . Its strange the sound quality is that bad in Jazz Jackraabit, maybe i do something wrong. Its sound as bad as my isa Zoltrix soundcard. Keen4 sound just ok, but nit as good than crystal cs4236b. NFS III sound was bad enough.
( i read the ess and audiodrv page that someone suggested me, but im not sure it can help.)
( Note: i didnt get the P3 computer working again yet )

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-22, 16:41:

I tried the isa Ess 1869f and unfortunately the sound quality is not very good in dos games and windows too VS Crystal CS4236b. […]
Show full quote

devius wrote on 2020-08-21, 10:14:

I don't know if it's better, but one good thing that ESS Audiodrive soundcards have is that they don't require any drivers or TSRs for DOS. They just work.

I tried the isa Ess 1869f and unfortunately the sound quality is not very good in dos games and windows too VS Crystal CS4236b.

The quality difference is big.
i tried these dos games:
Keen4 and Jazz Jackrabbit
i tried these Windows 98 games:
Need for speed III HP, NFS HP 2, Lorsche Unleashed.

Is it any way to get the sound quality better?
thanks ( i read the ess abd audiodrv page that someone suggested me)
( Note: i didnt get the P3 computer working again yet )

You will need to be mor specific about the quality issue, what output you are using (line out or speaker out) and what you have it connected to . The exact manufacturer/model of the card would help too, if available

For the quailty issue :

- Is there background noise?
- Is it distorted?
- Is it muffled (high frequencies cut off)?
- Does it stutter ?
- Is volume abnormally high or low compared to the othe sound card ?

Yes for Background noise
Its music has no clarity , its not distorted, no stutter. it play like a old .wav or .mp3 file recorded in low quality. It sound very low playback quality. im not sure about muffled, but i think not. the volume is normal. i choose vol 12 instead of 8 because it was too low but 12 is perfect
its hard to explain. but its similar to the Zoltrix i have. But the Crystal cs4236b sound as good as my old sound blaster awe64. im very impress by crystsl sound music quality. im not sure its normal my ISA ESS 1869f sound so bad. People say that this ESS soundcard sound great. i use dos driver recommended by Joseph joestar

Honestly the difference in quality is night and day.

The ESS play exactly as bad as the isa Zoltrix i have in another pc.

Edit: i got it a little better in Jazz jackrabbit, its more acceptable, but not great. i choose Sound Blaster Mono in highest quality instead of Sound Blaster pro Stereo in highest quality.

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-22, 17:00:

Yes for Background noise
Its music has no clarity , its not distorted, no stutter. it play like a old .wav or .mp3 file recorded in low quality. It sound very low playback quality. im not sure about muffled, but i think not.
its hard to explain. but its similar to the Zoltrix i have. But the Crystal cs4236b sound as good as my old sound blaster awe64. im very impress by crystsl sound music quality. im not sure its normal my ISA ESS 1869f sound so bad. People say that this ESS soundcard sound great. i use dos driver recommended by

A lot depends on the quality of the sound card as designed and built by the manufacturer . ESS chips were used in good designs and crappy ones .

ah ok ! maybe. i just want to be sure, its not something i did wrong.

i got it a little better in Jazz jackrabbit, its more acceptable, but not great. i choose Sound Blaster Mono in highest quality instead of Sound Blaster pro Stereo in highest quality.

Honestly the Crystal cs4236b play better than my integrated sound card in my I7 4790k pc with msi gaming 5 board. Maybe This crystal soundcard sounds really that great. Its like the crystal is Full high Surround sound quality, if possible i will record music in both soundcard and post it in a few days.

I dont find any brand on the ess soundcard

im about to buy a authentic isa Sound Blaster 16 with real opl3, I HOPE i wont find it worse than the Crystal cs4236b. im not so sure if i should buy it. i read all about the sound blaster 16 , positives and negatives, its sound good to me, but im not sure. i had 15 years ago a Sound Blaster awe 64 and i loved it. i think it sounds like the crystal.
But 15 years is a long time.

@renejr902: Check out this video by Phil for the ESS AudioDrive 1868F (he also has audio recordings): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWOdIuRO5fI
This is how a good ESS AudioDrive 1868/1869 should sound (and look - because, by looking at it, you should be able to tell if it was built cheaply or not). 😀

bloodem wrote on 2020-08-22, 17:27:

@renejr902: Check out this video by Phil for the ESS AudioDrive 1868F (he also has audio recordings): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWOdIuRO5fI
This is how a good ESS AudioDrive 1868/1869 should sound (and look - because, by looking at it, you should be able to tell if it was built cheaply or not). 😀

Wow! im confuse !! His ESS soundcard sound really great, similar to my Crystal CS4236b maybe better. Something is wrong with my soundcard.
1869f is supposed to be just the same than 1868f with extra features. Im really confuse. i will try to change the card irq... His picture of his card looks 97% like mine. Maybe his soundcard is the same brand than me. I have to try something.. mine cant sound that bad, something is surely wrong ! right?
edit: i have the same configuration than him.

MAYBE i have a conflict with the onboard pci ess soundcard. i cant put it disable in bios, no jumper. but it doesnt have pure dos driver, they dont exist. Could it still be a conflict? thanks for answer guys.

Oh man ! Help me ! im becoming crazy !

Its the fifth time i reboot my pc to windows 98, since i installed the isa ess1869f soundcard , AND FOR the FIRST time in 5 reboot, the soundcard play 5 times better than before , similar to Phil in his video, similar to my Crystal. Man! what happen ???
i dont get it at all ??? i didnt install other drivers.
i will try dos again later.

Do you have any idea of what it happens for the soundcard begin to play like a god ?? 😉

thanks guys, im really really surprised !

Note: First thing i did when windows 98 has finished installed was Disable in hardware profile the onboard pci ESS soundcard, so it could not conflict. i didnt not even try it because no oure dos driver exist for it, i read that information in vogons forum. i think the model is Maestro 2 es1968. theres no way to disable it in bios.

edit: i reboot 2 times sound perfect in windows 98.
I just retry pure dos 6.22 and WORKS Perfect NOW! Im not sure which soundcard play Jazz better, i will make a test later. But a strange bug. I will bring the ess doundcard to my father for a cleanup and check the caps. thanks guys again!

Sound like you may have a resource conflict. Try disabling the on-board audio device in the BIOS, if there is an option for that. For the background noise, look for a jumper on the card which allows switching between line out and speaker out. Set it to line out.

For DOS gaming, configure your ESS card as suggested by Phil in his video. You may need to add the relevant lines to DOSSTART.BAT rather than AUTOEXEC.BAT since they aren't meant to be used under Windows.

Lastly, make sure that your drivers are intended for the 1869F card, since older versions may not work properly on it. IIRC, the pack in the Vogons driver archive should have that version.

thanks for answer. i will test it later , i just switched the ess soundcard to my P3 933mhz for benchmarks test. I dont seems to have the problem yet.

( with the P2 450mhz, Jazz music has not the same quality each time i run it. i tried several times in a row, its strsnge, probably conflict.)

PLEASE !! If possible guys, read my last post in my benchmark topic, i have strange results, too low fps in Need for Speed III with my P3 933mhz and FX5200. Always 38fps. Thanks a lot for help and answers ! 😀

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-24, 06:50:

thanks for answer. i will test it later , i just switched the ess soundcard to my P3 933mhz for benchmarks test. I dont seems to have the problem yet.

( with the P2 450mhz, Jazz music has not the same quality each time i run it. i tried several times in a row, its strsnge, probably conflict.)

In my experience, Jazz has a lot of speed related bugs when it comes to sound/music. Sound crackling/popping can occur on high speed CPUs (although, sometimes, it can work fine even on faster systems with certain chipset/CPU/sound card combinations - so it's quite a mystery). I usually get the best sound with SB16 cards on (Super) Socket 7 platforms, but I also had good results with Yamaha YMF71x cards or ESS AudioDrive 1868/1869 cards. The main idea is to try and keep the CPU speed below 300 MHz (ideally, < 200 FPS in 3DBench 1.0c)

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-24, 06:50:

PLEASE !! If possible guys, read my last post in my benchmark topic, i have strange results, too low fps in Need for Speed III with my P3 933mhz and FX5200. Always 38fps. Thanks a lot for help and answers ! 😀

Stop using the GeForce FX cards with systems they clearly were not designed to work on 😀 A GeForce 2 MX is all you need for that game. The game is frame capped at 65 FPS and the GeForce 2 MX/MX400 will run at max FPS even at 1024x768, while a GeForce 2 GTS will run fine at 1600x1200.

Anyway, the 38 FPS cap you are seeing is caused by VSYNC (this means that your card, with the current CPU/drivers, is not able to sustain a steady 60+ FPS). So the workaround would be to disable vsync using the Coolbits registry tweak (attached), however, if I remember correctly, this registry tweak only works on nVidia driver versions below 5x.xx (ideally, 45.23) - so make sure you are not using newer drivers such as 56.64
After you add the registry tweak, open the nvidia control panel --> go to the Direct3D Settings configuration tab --> More Direct3D --> set Vertical sync mode to "Always off". This should give you a nice speed boost in all Direct3D games.
But, again, that Pentium 3 works best with a GeForce 2 MX (or, much better, a GeForce 2 GTS) with old drivers like Detonator 7.76.

By the way, for NFS 3, you will need to follow this guide, if you want to play at resolutions higher than 800x600 on GeForce/Radeon cards.

I just saw your messages guys. i have to sleep soon. I already patch Need III with the high resolution patch but thanks to Bloodem. Tomorrow i will install Phil vsync tweak. But i just made several tests, im doing differents benchmark for fun but i still want a P3 system that i like. I will try tomorrow some of your suggestions.

BUT the 38fps was because adapter was set at optimal refresh rate (75hz). Now i got 30 fps with FX 5200. So i remove the PCI fx 5200 64 bit because i know now its a bad card for my system, maybe PCI one is not good.

And i try the gf4 mx440SE with the P3 933mhz and HURRAY! i got 60 fps very much stable in NFSIII, only a few hiccup , 3 or 4 times in total during first race at 4 laps. Hiccup was at 50-55 fps for 3-5 seconds, it happens when i see smoke fog or A LOT of cars at same place, very rare. its much better now, but im not perfect satisfied because In Porsche unleashed its not perfect.

In NFS Porsche At 1024x768x32bits highest setting , at least its very playable , but far from perfect: 35 to 45 fps with cars and 55 fps with no cars. I would have prefer near 60 fps.

Now for need for speed hot pursuit2 its only playable at lowest graphics setting in 640x480 for 35-55fps but it looks like garbage 🤣! Even with all setting at 2/4 settings like at Low settings instead of lowest its not really playable im just at 640x480. i got 17-20fps with a lot of cars and 25 with a few cars. 30-40 no cars at all. i tried at medium graphics and 640 x 480 its horrible like 8 to 14fps. So i believe its a gpu bottleneck. and for

For Porsche unleashed i think its gpu bottleneck too if i want to get 60fps in 1024x768. But i dont care much of Hot Pursuit 2 , but i will take it too more playable if possible. and just for fun i will try NFS Underground 2, i have minimum requirement but i think it will play like garbage even at lowest settings.

Dont forget the Geforce 4 mx440SE is only 64bit and i think its similar to normal Geforce 2 mx . I dont think its enough for me. I know Bloodem you think its enough, but i want more performance at 1024x768 in NFS Porsche and HotPursuit2 if its possible. And i want more fps in porsche unleashed like near 60 fps, even if its not perfect stable thats fine, i will live with it. And i want Hot Pursuit ii to be more playable at medium graphics. i dont hope for perfect 60fps at 1024 x 768 because im not sure its realism with my P3 933mhz. But who knows? But i want to keep my P3 933mhz, i want to keep it. maybe i will upgrade to a better P3 Cpu but only in some months, all P3 cpu more than 1ghz are expensive.

So What is the best AGP videocards i can buy ?

( with my voodoo 3 pci already in the system soon)

I want more gpu performance than gf4 mx440SE and gf2 mx200( that last card suck at 64bit)
Thanks for suggestions.

( i received a geforce 256 DDR it runs pretty well, probably better than mx440SE but it has a important defect, my father try to repair it earlier today. we changed caps, make soldering, clean the card... The glitchs are strange i cant find any one with that problem. i will try to explain. It happens only with Black and grey colors. its look like black smearing banding. anything black or grey have a left and right trail of black or grey smearing. yeah its strange. i played 1h of NFS games with the card, it works great except for the black smearing banding. Any ideas?

Anyway, any suggestions guys and Bloodem ?
I understand that i need a Geforce card that a P3 933mhz can run without too much overhead driver and that wont cause too much CPU bottleneck. But i will play most of my win98 games in 1024x768, if the game permit it 😀

Thanks in advance.

( Note1: These are my favorites cards of the past, you can pick one in my favorites one too:
Geforce 256 DDR, GF2 GTS, Geforce 3 Ti200, Geforce 4 Ti4200, Gf4 Mx440 128bit, Geforce 6600, Geforce 6800, Geforce 6800 GT)
( But Honestly Some of them are too much expensive) 😉

(Note2: gf2 gts is enough expensive and im not sure its enough for my need ? Maybe i should get gf4 mx 440 at 128bit ? But is it enough ? And i have a friend deal right now, i can get a Geforce 3 Ti200 for 20$ But is it strong enough ? 6.4gb memory bandwidth still better than 2.38 of my mx440 SE. )

Thanks guys for your agp Geforce videocards suggestions. I want to keep my P3 at 933mhz and install my voodoo3 in pci.

AND i will play only win98 games and some dos games, NO WINXP. ( but i mostly use my p233mmx for dos games) Maybe i will try overclocking the P3 because i think i have a great board for that. Ok thanks in advance. Im going to sleep ZZZzzz 😀

EDIT: I JUST MADE SOME CORRECTION to my LONG text and grammar.im Sorry my english is not perfect.

Again, you need to stop thinking about the card and think about the drivers first. 😁
Yes, an 128bit GeForce MX 440 will be much faster than a GeForce 2 GTS.... BUT, not on a Pentium 3 933 MHz... on the P3 it will be slower! 😀 Why? because with the GeForce 2 GTS you can use older drivers from 2000/early 2001, while the GeForce 4 MX 440 needs drivers from 2002. It might not seem like a big deal, but it is. The performance impact is very noticeable.

And, yes, if you can get the GeForce 3 Ti 200 for $20, I say go for it! It is VERY strong, stronger than GeForce 2 GTS. And, more importantly, you can force driver version 7.76 to work with it. 😀 So it will be perfect for your P3 933 MHz. 😀

Hi guys! About the ESS 1869f, i tested a little more.
When i play Jazz Jackrabbit.. to have the music and sound quality to play and sounds like in high quality , i have to execute each time the ESS sound driver in dos, otherwise Jazz Jackrabbit music sounds very bad. I will try to explain better. 1st If i execute Ess dos driver then i start Jazz, music will be perfect in high quality. then if i exit Jazz game and i restart Jazz again music will sounds very bad. i have to execute ess soundcard dos driver EACH time before starting Jazz, otherwise the music play really bad. its a strange bug. Any idea? But i didnt try yet other ess dos sound driver and i didnt try Phil recommandation the for ess card yet.

I only made a test to compare Music and sound quality of the ESS 1869f vs crystal cs4236b in dos with Jazz and Keen4 games. To test i try each of the 2 games with 2 differents computer using the 2 differents soundcards and with each computer i run each game in the same time and switch the speaker 3.5mm plug in each soundcard to my high stereo quality logitech speaker. i tried several time and heard the music carefully , even my 8 years old daughter help me 😀

We both (she and me) find the music and sound of each soundcard to play EXACTLY the same way and in the same quality with both games, NO DIFFERENCE at all. i cant find any difference AT ALL.

So my conclusion is the isa ESS 1869f and Isa cs4236b have exactly the same quality in term of music and sound for dos games. ( i tested with Jazz Jackrabbit and Keen4 only)

I made this test for myself, but i want to share the result with you. Both soundcard seems to have the same opl3 fm clone and the same sound blaster 16 clone quality. ( both cards works in Jazz with Sound Blaster 16 highest quality choice. no need to choice sound blaster pro stereo. anyway sound blaster pro stereo play worse than Sound Blaster 16 setting, i did test that too.) and with the P3 933mhz Jazz music and sound play as perfect than on a slower computer like p233mmx with both soundcard. So no problem running Jazz with a computer as fast as the 933mhz. No sound and music problem at all, no distortion , no speed problem, no quality problem.. But i have to applied the Tppatch on the Jazz game for the P3 933mhz.

I hope it can be useful to someone someday. 😀

Edit: Important ! I made several others tests and i posted the result in my benchmark topic. Finally the Crystal CS4236b has a much better OPL3 FM clone than Ess1869f. I compare both sound cards with Doom and Keen 4 and the CS4236b FM sounds much better than Es1869f. Go read it in my benchmark topic if you are interested. Thanks

( i post the 2 same questions in my sound card benchmark topic) ( i'm sorry i want to post that elsewhere but i made a mistake. You can still answer my questions here ! Thanks a lot!)

I have 2 questions guys ! Thanks a lot !

1. How many Windows 98 games can use the Yamaha opl3 synth ? Which games for examples ? Honestly i know a lot of dos games that use opl3, but for windows 98 i have no idea at all. Thanks for answer. If its no use for win98 i will keep it in my pc build for dos only.

2. What are the advantages of a awe32 with a opl3 chip vs SB16? I read that they use soundfonts with ram. But honestly i dont know really the purpose of that. Is it for playing better quality midi music files? Thanks for more explanation. ( i had a awe64 when i was young, but i really didnt know how to use soundfonts. Maybe i never use that)