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EU votes for Right to Repair

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Reply 20 of 28, by chinny22

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Carrera wrote on 2020-12-01, 09:18:

Couch?
as in sofa?

As in no formal qualifications/ self taught and openly admit not a trained expert

640K!enough wrote on 2020-12-01, 05:11:

We wouldn't stand for such nonsense in other areas. Imagine having to go to a GM- or Volkswagen-approved re-filling station, because they were the only ones with the custom tool to open the fuel port.

You mean like Tesla vs everyone else plug used for recharging, Scary how your example is coming reality!

But that's where I see this as a positive. one widely publicised case of right to repair was farmers wanting to keep their John Deer tractors running. John Deer were complaining unauthorised access to the tractors software was in effect hacking their IP. I can see both sides of the argument as well. As a company I would want to protect all the R&D I had put into the product, but more against competitors then the customer.
And of course as a customer I would expect I have the right to do with as I wish with something I had purchased outright.

I own a box copy WinXP, I am fully within my rights to install that on A machine of my choice, I'm not upset MS have turned off the activation server just as I'm not upset VW no longer sell parts for our 74 Beetle.
But I SHOULD be able to hack the activation to continue to use my software just as I can buy reproduction parts for the car.

If company's want full control then cheap subscription services like Office 365 or car leasing where you get a product cheaper on the understanding you simply hand it back at the end is also fine. just be prepared for customers to possibly look somewhere else.

at the moment companies are trying to make us buy the product outright and then threaten us with legal action once they drop support .

Reply 21 of 28, by chinny22

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-12-01, 14:14:

They attempt, they succeed, the game goes on as normal. But if they fail, it's not Apples fault the consumer failed to do so and also void the warranty in the process.

But your already exercising your right to repair!? Re: Apple is getting off Intel CPU’s ?

"We have a 2009 24-inch iMac that is not used here anymore, simply because of this BS. I had to open it, install an SSD, and thanks to DOSDUDE1 hacks, I was able to install macOS High Sierra and later macOS Catalina on it (both unsupported) and what's funny, macOS Catalina can run perfectly well on that iMac powered by an Intel Core 2 Duo (Penryn). And that brings another stance I have against Apple: Their planned obsolescence for Macs that can still run their newest OS perfectly."

Not only did a non authorised Apple repair technician install a HDD but also installed a unsupported OS AND hacks.

You knew the risks, you knew Apple wouldn't help if it all went wrong, yet you made a informed judgement. This is what right to repair is all about.
And I'd call what you did a lot more risky then an established repair company replacing a battery in a phone or laptop. hell, anyone with a bit of knowledge knows Apple's policy is to replace rather then diagnose and repair (which is fine for them labour is much more expensive then parts they get at below cost) Someone like Louis Rossmann has 100 times the knowledge (and ego) then the standard Apple repair tech.

PS this isn't a personal attack, just pointing out the true scale of right to repair. For a company machine yeh I'd prefer something covered by warranty and just gets fixed so I can get on with my job, be it car, computer, phone.

but personal items where time isn't money I should be the one to decide if/when I want to throw it out. This whole forum is dedicated to games/hardware well past their use by date yet here is a community built up to keep them going.

Reply 22 of 28, by Big Pink

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chinny22 wrote on 2020-12-01, 14:39:

You mean like Tesla vs everyone else plug used for recharging, Scary how your example is coming reality!

You took the words out of my mouth. There's a nascent cult of Tesla/Musk eerily reminiscent of Apple/Jobs. If you tolerate this then your industry standards will be next.

I thought IBM was born with the world

Reply 24 of 28, by Bruninho

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chinny22 wrote on 2020-12-01, 16:09:

But your already exercising your right to repair!? Re: Apple is getting off Intel CPU’s ?

"We have a 2009 24-inch iMac that is not used here anymore, simply because of this BS. I had to open it, install an SSD, and thanks to DOSDUDE1 hacks, I was able to install macOS High Sierra and later macOS Catalina on it (both unsupported) and what's funny, macOS Catalina can run perfectly well on that iMac powered by an Intel Core 2 Duo (Penryn). And that brings another stance I have against Apple: Their planned obsolescence for Macs that can still run their newest OS perfectly."

Not only did a non authorised Apple repair technician install a HDD but also installed a unsupported OS AND hacks.

1. The 2009 iMac was not under warranty, and declared vintage by Apple, so no official/authorized service was available for this machine at the time I did the repairs. If it were still under warranty, I'd have taken it to them to do the repairs.
2. I installed a SSD, not an HDD. Apple's policy at the time the 2009 iMac was launched was that you were OK to replace the hard disk and and this is even confirmed when pointed out that there is an open slot for consumers to replace and upgrade RAM, for example. If I can replace the RAM, I can do the same to the HDD. If both were soldered, I wouldn't even try it - and I wouldn't even complain, because no Mac has failed at me in ten years and I defend the idea to solder them because I can see the performance gains from that.
3. My unique and only stance against Apple is the planned obsolescence regarding their operating system dropping support for older machines that are well capable of running their newest OS. Sure, the 2009 iMac is not capable of running Big Sur in its peak performance, so I'll have to give up on this iMac which lived a very long life (10 years) good enough and worth the money invested in it. IMO it's the right time for a new Mac, ten years.

In this case, with Apple (rightfully so) refusing to service this iMac when it wasn't anymore under warranty (as stated by the contract when you buy it) and they declared it vintage and obsolete, the only option was to service it by myself and I did it respecting what I was allowed to do (#2 above) simply because these changes do no harm to the Mac, except the one change for the unsupported OS version, which was made to prove a personal point (#3 above) and had nothing to do with "right to repair". If other parts considered not serviceable were damaged, I wouldn't attempt to fix it by myself, never. I'd just bin it, after all it was good enough for ten long years.

chinny22 wrote on 2020-12-01, 16:09:

You knew the risks, you knew Apple wouldn't help if it all went wrong, yet you made a informed judgement. This is what right to repair is all about.

No, right to repair is about a bunch of (censored) trying to change the way the Macs are done to please their non-official dangerous mods & upgrades, at the expense of reducing the performance of these Macs and risking damage not covered by Apple warranty. Ifixit and OWC want it because servicing them is their business ($$$$) and with Macs coming with soldered parts, they no longer have any service to do and would have to close. I prefer Ifixit and OWC to close and (censored F) off.

chinny22 wrote on 2020-12-01, 16:09:

And I'd call what you did a lot more risky then an established repair company replacing a battery in a phone or laptop. hell, anyone with a bit of knowledge knows Apple's policy is to replace rather then diagnose and repair (which is fine for them labour is much more expensive then parts they get at below cost) Someone like Louis Rossmann has 100 times the knowledge (and ego) then the standard Apple repair tech.

<irony> I am yet to hear about a SSD upgrade for an iMac explode... </irony> while there are several phones and laptops (not just Apple, other brands too) exploded due to bad and non-official services. I have nothing against their policy to replace (rather then diagnose and repair) if my Mac is still under warranty. I prefer to get a brand new, shiny Mac than to fix it. But we will never know because unlike many of my friends, I always took good care of my brand new Apple devices and computers. Never had to repair it by myself, never had to take them to Apple authorized services (the above 2009 iMac is not mine either).

chinny22 wrote on 2020-12-01, 16:09:

PS this isn't a personal attack, just pointing out the true scale of right to repair. For a company machine yeh I'd prefer something covered by warranty and just gets fixed so I can get on with my job, be it car, computer, phone.

but personal items where time isn't money I should be the one to decide if/when I want to throw it out. This whole forum is dedicated to games/hardware well past their use by date yet here is a community built up to keep them going.

I didn't take it as personal anyway, and again, with all due respect, you're taking the wrong fight. You should fight for free/cheaper replacements/repairs under warranty, not right to repair at any time and anywhere you want. You bought it, there is a contract if you still want it to be under their warranty and be able to point your finger at them if the device fails or malfunctions.

My stance is: is it still under warranty? Then don't f*** it up and send it to them to repair. Not under warranty? Alright, try it yourself at your own risk, but from this point onwards you cannot spit a single bad word at Apple if it fails.

Right to repair is just all about Ifixit and OWC profits from their unauthorized repairs.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 25 of 28, by schmatzler

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-12-01, 17:48:

No, right to repair is about a bunch of (censored) trying to change the way the Macs are done to please their non-official dangerous mods & upgrades, at the expense of reducing the performance of these Macs

That made me chuckle. It's such a load of bullshit.

Reply 26 of 28, by Bruninho

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No, the load of bullshit is called Ifixit. They want money from their unauthorized repairs, not your “right to repair”. You’re being fooled by them.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 27 of 28, by yawetaG

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-12-01, 05:20:

Meh. I’m against the Right to Repair. Nothing more to say since all I could’ve said was said in another thread. EU never gets a vote about technology right, since their parliament is *cough* full of couch tech experts *couch*

Yeah, just like the GDPR was a total failure.

Oh wait, it was not, and helped expose really stupid US companies that think user data can be sold to anyone (some even blocked EU users).

Reply 28 of 28, by Qbix

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-12-01, 20:56:

No, the load of bullshit is called Ifixit. They want money from their unauthorized repairs, not your “right to repair”. You’re being fooled by them.

congrats, you got the topic closed

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