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Apple is getting off Intel CPU’s ?

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Reply 100 of 547, by ShovelKnight

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chinny22 wrote on 2020-06-23, 08:53:

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple will end up pushing and "encouraging" 3rd parties to push more and more things into the cloud and the Mac is more like a terminal client to their "mainframe in the sky"
I don't like that idea but seems to be the way the world is moving (Office 365, Netflix, etc) and to give them credit Apple has always been a bit ahead in the curve.

I don't think they're actually interested in having non-native apps on the system because it hurts user experience, but it may be the only sustainable software model going forward.

BTW, I'm pretty sure modern Autodesk apps (at least Fusion 360) are actually running on Autodesk servers and the local client is just "streaming" the application and rendering the UI locally. Everything else happens in the cloud.

Reply 101 of 547, by Dominus

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balls or arrogance... sometimes I think it's balls other time, when suddenly something doesn't compile or work anymore I think it's arrogance 😀

On the other side, the big changes they *DO* announce and you can keep on working with the older version for a while longer. (though that is not true if you are a developer and want to have your apps in the AppStore, you can't give it too much time 🙁)

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Reply 102 of 547, by Munx

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It makes perfect sense for Apple to move to ARM. Their desktop presence is practically gone and mobile is where their biggest products are.

Having a single OS for mobile and notebook devices is quite good for them and I doubt their customer base really needs high-end x86 performance.

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Reply 103 of 547, by Dominus

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Add to that the possibility that they *do* manage to make it fast.

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Reply 104 of 547, by Bruninho

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Munx wrote on 2020-06-23, 11:57:

It makes perfect sense for Apple to move to ARM. Their desktop presence is practically gone and mobile is where their biggest products are.

Having a single OS for mobile and notebook devices is quite good for them and I doubt their customer base really needs high-end x86 performance.

Sorry, but I need. Immensely.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 105 of 547, by ShovelKnight

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Munx wrote on 2020-06-23, 11:57:

Having a single OS for mobile and notebook devices is quite good for them and I doubt their customer base really needs high-end x86 performance.

They have separate OS for desktop and mobile, and x86 ISA doesn't have anything that makes it inherently superior in terms of performance to Arm or any other instruction set.

Reply 106 of 547, by Bruninho

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ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-06-23, 07:53:

I'm sorry but this is the most hilarious thing in this thread. TextWrangler literally was just a free version of BBEdit, and the current free version of BBEdit is... wait for it... just like TextWrangler!

No, not even close. When the UI of an app changes so does how the user is used to do the things.

TextWrangler is not even the free version, is not even offered anymore because it is 32 bit and discontinued.

Me and my dad both hate change. Thats the reason I do not want to move away from Coda 2. And thats the reason my dad is going back to Windows. We have a 32 bit software to run our home surveillance cameras, since Catalina does not support them (and we paid for it...) we’re moving it back to a Windows 32 bit PC server we have here and with a Windows version of that software.

Apple has always been sh*t to their customers in regards to backwards compatibility, shitting on the head of their older loyal customers. I have been with them for 10 years. Time to move on because they clearly dont give a f*ck to loyal customers.

Last edited by Bruninho on 2020-06-23, 13:07. Edited 1 time in total.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 107 of 547, by Bruninho

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ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-06-23, 07:54:
Bruninho wrote on 2020-06-23, 06:50:

Actually I am very interested and inclined to use elementaryOS. Similar UI, similar stuff, so an easier and quicker transition for me. Plus, getting a cheaper but more powerful laptop is also a plus in this scenario, where I leave the Macs for a pc laptop.

But does it run Panic Coda 2?

I will keep using it on my last mac till it dies. There are good linux alternatives, none are close to Coda 2, but at least Apple wont screw me up with their BS again. Catalina was the buggiest sh*t I have ever used. Made me feel the urge to downgrade to Snow Leopard...

They drop 32 bit support but oh, they brought new memojis! Awesome... not. The Apple in Jobs era was great. The Apple post Jobs... a complete disaster.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 109 of 547, by ShovelKnight

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-06-23, 12:59:
ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-06-23, 07:53:

I'm sorry but this is the most hilarious thing in this thread. TextWrangler literally was just a free version of BBEdit, and the current free version of BBEdit is... wait for it... just like TextWrangler!

No, not even close. When the UI of an app changes so does how the user is used to do the things.

TextWrangler is not even the free version, is not even offered anymore because it is 32 bit and discontinued.

Are you pulling my leg?

TextWranger on the right, BBEdit on the left. What UI changes are you talking about? If I switch the BBEdit theme from dark to light, there wouldn't be a single UI difference between them.

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FWIW, I've been using TextWrangler for many years or so because I'm a cheap bastard, it was free and it was enough for my needs. After they discontinued it, I switched to the free version of BBEdit and it was exactly the same in every single way. BTW, I've since upgraded to the full version of BBEdit and it is awesome, the best GUI text editor I have ever used (and this is coming from someone who spent 10 years to customise my installation of vim to perfection).

Reply 110 of 547, by ShovelKnight

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-06-23, 12:59:

Me and my dad both hate change. Thats the reason I do not want to move away from Coda 2. And thats the reason my dad is going back to Windows. We have a 32 bit software to run our home surveillance cameras, since Catalina does not support them (and we paid for it...) we’re moving it back to a Windows 32 bit PC server we have here and with a Windows version of that software.

Apple has always been sh*t to their customers in regards to backwards compatibility, shitting on the head of their older loyal customers. I have been with them for 10 years. Time to move on because they clearly dont give a f*ck to loyal customers.

You both hate change, yet you installed a new version of the OS without verifying that it's compatible with your mission critical software, even though it had been known at least for a year in advance that it wouldn't support 32-bit applications? I'm sorry but it seems to me that Apple's stance on backwards compatibility is the least of your problems 😉

Reply 111 of 547, by Bruninho

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ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-06-23, 14:07:
Bruninho wrote on 2020-06-23, 12:59:

Me and my dad both hate change. Thats the reason I do not want to move away from Coda 2. And thats the reason my dad is going back to Windows. We have a 32 bit software to run our home surveillance cameras, since Catalina does not support them (and we paid for it...) we’re moving it back to a Windows 32 bit PC server we have here and with a Windows version of that software.

Apple has always been sh*t to their customers in regards to backwards compatibility, shitting on the head of their older loyal customers. I have been with them for 10 years. Time to move on because they clearly dont give a f*ck to loyal customers.

You both hate change, yet you installed a new version of the OS without verifying that it's compatible with your mission critical software, even though it had been known at least for a year in advance that it wouldn't support 32-bit applications? I'm sorry but it seems to me that Apple's stance on backwards compatibility is the least of your problems 😉

TextWrangler/BBEdit is the least of my problems; it was just a prime example of how bad the drop of 32 bit support was. I dont give a damn, anyway I gave a subscription of Coda 2 to my dad as well as a replacement for him, he also likes Coda. But I do have other 32 bit software that I paid for and I am not able to run anymore. What annoys me most is how Apple doesn't give a f*** to old loyal customers changing the UI of the OS every time with silly changes and dropping support for things we have paid for and use for a long period of time.

And yet you speak this BS while you forget that TextWrangler is not the only app installed on our macs. There are other apps that we need to run updated and require Catalina to run.

We have a 2009 24-inch iMac that is not used here anymore, simply because of this BS. I had to open it, install an SSD, and thanks to DOSDUDE1 hacks, I was able to install macOS High Sierra and later macOS Catalina on it (both unsupported) and what's funny, macOS Catalina can run perfectly well on that iMac powered by an Intel Core 2 Duo (Penryn). And that brings another stance I have against Apple: Their planned obsolescence for Macs that can still run their newest OS perfectly.

All that matters to me is BootCamp for my Windows games and not having to look for alternatives to replace my 3rd party mac apps because most third party developers will quit the mac development. 99% of the apps installed on my mac didnt come from the Apple's "walled garden of toys" Store. I already know that some of these developers will not do the transition; they will quit. That's the point. I don't want to run them unmodified through the shitty 'Rosetta 2' Nightmare all over again and I don't believe an ARM Mac will run exceptionally my Windows games in a virtualization software like Parallels or VMware. I demand high end performance for games like rFactor 2, Assetto Corsa, iRacing and the upcoming next Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. And an ARM Mac will not deliver this, hence why I will move away.

Last edited by Bruninho on 2020-06-23, 14:38. Edited 1 time in total.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 112 of 547, by Dominus

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But this still puzzles me... why upgrade to Catalina when you rely on 32bit apps? Didn't you pay attention to the announced cut off?

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Reply 113 of 547, by Bruninho

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Dominus wrote on 2020-06-23, 14:37:

But this still puzzles me... why upgrade to Catalina when you rely on 32bit apps? Didn't you pay attention to the announced cut off?

Again: we have other apps that required Catalina to run. There was no middle term between Mojave and Catalina to run both apps, period. That's the point of my rant.

You and ShovelKnight speak like if TextWrangler was the only app installed on my Mac....

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 114 of 547, by Dominus

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No, it seemed as if you were totally hung up on the 32bit thing.
And if you are willing to switch to Windows now, those apps that needed Catalina can't be too important 😉

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Reply 115 of 547, by ShovelKnight

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-06-23, 14:33:

But I do have other 32 bit software that I paid for and I am not able to run anymore.

Why don't you complain to the developers of said software?

Bruninho wrote on 2020-06-23, 14:33:

What annoys me most is how Apple doesn't give a f*** to old loyal customers changing the UI of the OS every time with silly changes and dropping support for things we have paid for and use for a long period of time.

Can you give an example of such silly UI changes? macOS UI has been remarkably consistent through the years, much more consistent than, say, Windows. In fact, apart from updated fonts and the slightly flattened look, modern macOS looks very similar to Mac OS X 10.3 (I can't vouch for earlier versions because I have never used them).

Bruninho wrote on 2020-06-23, 14:33:

There are other apps that we need to run updated and require Catalina to run.

Once again, what apps require Catalina to run? I'm not saying there aren't any, but I have quite a collection of expensive software here and almost everything runs perfectly on Mojave, except some apps that are too old for that.

Bruninho wrote on 2020-06-23, 14:33:

We have a 2009 24-inch iMac that is not used here anymore, simply because of this BS. I had to open it, install an SSD, and thanks to DOSDUDE1 hacks, I was able to install macOS High Sierra and later macOS Catalina on it (both unsupported) and what's funny, macOS Catalina can run perfectly well on that iMac powered by an Intel Core 2 Duo (Penryn). And that brings another stance I have against Apple: Their planned obsolescence for Macs that can still run their newest OS perfectly.

And what makes you feel that you're entitled to free updates forever? Apple certainly has never promised it.

Bruninho wrote on 2020-06-23, 14:33:

All that matters to me is BootCamp for my Windows games and not having to look for alternatives to replace my 3rd party mac apps because most third party developers will quit the mac development. 99% of the apps installed on my mac didnt come from the Apple's "walled garden of toys" Store. I already know that some of these developers will not do the transition; they will quit. That's the point. I don't want to run them unmodified through the shitty 'Rosetta 2' Nightmare all over again and I don't believe an ARM Mac will run exceptionally my Windows games in a virtualization software like Parallels or VMware. I demand high end performance for games like rFactor 2, Assetto Corsa, iRacing and the upcoming next Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. And an ARM Mac will not deliver this, hence why I will move away.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Reply 116 of 547, by Dominus

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I have a few Catalina only ones, but those are mostly based on Catalyst and really need Catalina.

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Reply 117 of 547, by Bruninho

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This is getting so repetitive that I don't want to keep repeating myself to explain the things to someone who has no clue of how this silly transition affects me and my work.

I'm done, I already said what I had to say and my decision is already done.

Unless Apple convinces me that I can still do all I do today with an Intel Mac, with the same apps, same performance, and that I can run my Windows games without loss of performance, I don't see me buying an ARM Mac. And their WWDC keynote did NOT convince me at all. Tomb Raider does not require as much FPS as a racing game does, so it was a bad example for a demo on their A12Z chip and failed to convince me.

Another thing they didn't show is the terminal, for example if I can still run homebrew, apache/php/mysql, how it will be for web devs running local development web servers for work. Like me. They didn't show a thing on it, and if their solution for that is to run Linux on virtualization software for that, I'm jumping out of this sinking ship that is the silly ARM Macs immediately.

But I can see me using a Dell laptop dual booting Windows/Linux easily. And end period. I have nothing more to say on this matter.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 118 of 547, by Dominus

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That's the usual cop out... "tell us which apps" "I don't need to, I'm done"... yeah.
Of course they didn't show homebrew, why should they. But Homebrew or Macports will run with monor tweaks. Most stuff you get from those will just run on ARM. (See repositories for rPi for example)

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Reply 119 of 547, by ShovelKnight

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I mean, I have the boxed version of Photoshop CS2 which I can't even install because its activation servers were disabled. Adobe provided a version which doesn't require activation, but it runs like shit under Windows 10 with serious UI glitches and laggy pen input. And yet nobody is running around screaming "stupid Adobe and Microsoft hate their loyal customers because my 15-years old version of Photoshop which I bought for $650 doesn't work anymore". It's kinda expected that old software and hardware will be left behind eventually. And if you don't agree with that, try using your rotary phone on a modern landline telephone network.