VOGONS


First post, by Joseph_Joestar

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This thread is for identifying Windows games which offer multiple renderer choices for 3D acceleration, but look best when using 3DFX Glide. For a game to qualify for this list, it must support 3DFX Glide and at least one other renderer which provides 3D acceleration, such as Direct3D, OpenGL, PowerVR SGL, ATi CIF etc. Games which only offer software rendering or DirectDraw are not eligible for this purpose.

Note that this list is meant to showcase the differences on real hardware using retail versions of the games + official patches only. Glide wrappers and fan-made patches are not eligible for this comparison.

Documenting the differences with side-by-side screenshot comparisons or videos is necessary for full confirmation. The preliminary (unconfirmed) list is based on this old thread and other anecdotal reports.

Last edited by Joseph_Joestar on 2023-08-21, 06:59. Edited 3 times in total.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 1 of 153, by Joseph_Joestar

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List of games that have been confirmed to look best in Glide mode:

Last edited by Joseph_Joestar on 2024-03-31, 04:34. Edited 13 times in total.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 2 of 153, by Joseph_Joestar

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Preliminary list of games which look better in Glide mode (unconfirmed and subject to change):

  • Lands of Lore III
  • Mechwarrior 2 - vetz stated that the PowerVR version has better visuals
  • Starsiege Tribes - Glide provides better performance, but doesn't improve the visuals, per leileilol
  • Ultima IX

List of games where using Glide either provides both advantages and disadvantages, or where image quality is roughly equal to other renderers:

  • Clive Barker's Undying - documented here
  • Messiah - tested here and here
  • Requiem: Avenging Angel - tested here and here
  • Rune Gold - tested here
  • Star Wars Rogue Squadron 3D - tested here
  • Test Drive 5 - tested here
  • Turok - tested here
Last edited by Joseph_Joestar on 2023-09-04, 21:53. Edited 16 times in total.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 3 of 153, by Joseph_Joestar

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Games tested:

  • Carmageddon II - retail CD release + latest official patch version 1.2

Graphics cards tested:

  • 3DFX Voodoo3 2000, using 3DFX reference drivers version 1.07.00 (Glide renderer)
  • Nvidia GeForce FX 5900XT using Nvidia reference drivers version 45.23 (Direct3D renderer)
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When using the Direct3D renderer, fog is missing and the far away buildings on the right side of the screen have lower detail. Game detail settings were all at maximum during both tests.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 4 of 153, by Joseph_Joestar

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Games tested:

  • Diablo II - retail CD release + LoD expansion + official patch version 1.13d (the latest one which works under Windows 98SE)

Graphics cards tested:

  • 3DFX Voodoo3 2000, using 3DFX reference drivers version 1.07.00 (Glide renderer)
  • Nvidia GeForce FX 5900XT using Nvidia reference drivers version 45.23 (Direct3D renderer)
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Testing was based on this report by user ratfink. As indicated by the report, the dagger inside the blue energy sphere is missing in Direct3D mode. Additionaly, the white drawings on the floor appear to be slightly less detailed in Direct3D mode.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 5 of 153, by Joseph_Joestar

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Games tested:

  • Need for Speed III: Hot Pursuit - retail CD release + official Voodoo Banshee and Voodoo 3 patches applied as per these instructions by user Gamecollector.

Graphics cards tested:

  • 3DFX Voodoo3 2000, using 3DFX reference drivers version 1.07.00 (Glide renderer)
  • Nvidia GeForce FX 5900XT using Nvidia reference drivers version 45.23 (Direct3D renderer)
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Fog effects are missing in Direct3D mode while being present in Glide mode, specifically in Glide 2.x.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 6 of 153, by vetz

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-08-19, 14:30:

Preliminary list of games which look better in Glide mode (unconfirmed and subject to change):

  • Mechwarrior 2

In my opinion the PowerVR version looks and plays superior to the 3DFX/Glide version. Longer draw distance, fogeffects and just feels more smooth since Glide version is affected by framedrops when using mouse control to swivel.

3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)
3D Acceleration Comparison Episodes

Reply 7 of 153, by vetz

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I'd suggest POD to the list.

Long time since I've played the game and did my comparison video, but from what I remember it's the only version with all effects and no glitches.

3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)
3D Acceleration Comparison Episodes

Reply 8 of 153, by Joseph_Joestar

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vetz wrote on 2023-08-19, 15:18:

In my opinion the PowerVR version looks and plays superior to the 3DFX/Glide version. Longer draw distance, fogeffects and just feels more smooth since Glide version is affected by framedrops when using mouse control to swivel.

Cheers! Removed from the unconfirmed list. Unless someone can provide screenshots which prove that the 3DFX version has other advantages. I'm not familiar with that game, and have no means of testing it thoroughly.

vetz wrote on 2023-08-19, 15:25:

I'd suggest POD to the list.

Long time since I've played the game and did my comparison video, but from what I remember it's the only version with all effects and no glitches.

Thanks! I'll try that one on my Voodoo1 system when I get the chance.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 9 of 153, by Joseph_Joestar

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Games tested:

  • Unreal - retail CD release + latest official patch 226f

Graphics cards tested:

  • 3DFX Voodoo3 2000, using 3DFX reference drivers version 1.07.00 (Glide renderer)
  • Nvidia GeForce FX 5900XT using Nvidia reference drivers version 45.23 (Direct3D renderer)
  • Nvidia TNT2 M64 using Nvidia reference drivers version 3.68 (OpenGL renderer)

file.php?id=169255&mode=view

At the very start of the game, when you're exiting the first room through the ventilation shaft with the green fog, there's a junction where the pipes on the ceiling are leaking gas in two spots. Under Glide, the leaky gas is animated in both spots. In contrast, under the stock Direct3D renderer, only one leaky spot is animated, while the other one is visibly frozen in place (completely static).

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The stock OpenGL renderer doesn't support detail textures, which makes it less desirable than Glide. I should note that Unreal's stock OpenGL renderer crashed with my GeForce FX 5900XT using 45.23 drivers, but it worked fine with my TNT2 M64 using 3.68 drivers.

Last edited by Joseph_Joestar on 2023-08-19, 18:07. Edited 2 times in total.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 10 of 153, by Joseph_Joestar

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Games tested:

  • Unreal Tournament GOTY - retail CD release + latest official patch v436

Graphics cards tested:

  • 3DFX Voodoo3 2000, using 3DFX reference drivers version 1.07.00 (Glide renderer)
  • Nvidia GeForce FX 5900XT using Nvidia reference drivers version 45.23 (OpenGL renderer)
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The stock OpenGL renderer doesn't display the Redeemer weapon correctly. Additionally, it has no support for detail textures, which is visible by the lower quality textures on the nearby walls and floors. The stock Direct3D renderer also doesn't display the Redeemer weapon correctly, but it does at least support detail textures.

Last edited by Joseph_Joestar on 2023-08-19, 17:05. Edited 3 times in total.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 11 of 153, by Warlord

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Id look at games that have software modes, and received d3d patches, and glide pathes and games from 1996-1997. You want to look at pre directx games in general. Ported games maybe an area of interest or games that originated on consoles like ps1.

Diablo II is an outlier because its such a late game. By this time most games were directx.

There were lots of games that used unreal engine, and games that used id tech engines and Id assume those games have all the same problems if theyre present.

Reply 12 of 153, by Joseph_Joestar

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Games tested:

  • Deus Ex GOTY - retail CD release (1.112fm)

Graphics cards tested:

  • 3DFX Voodoo3 2000, using 3DFX reference drivers version 1.07.00 (Glide renderer)
  • Nvidia GeForce FX 5900XT using Nvidia reference drivers version 45.23 (Direct3D renderer)
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Reflective surfaces appear to have slightly more detail in Glide mode. Not sure how well this will come over due to the JPG format and the forum's own image compression, but you should notice that the star symbol reflected on the floor is slightly sharper in the Glide screenshot. Same goes for the plant leaves. You can also make out individual brick tiles around the reflected star symbol in Glide mode, while those are simply a blur under the stock Direct3D renderer. I have the source BMP files and the difference is more pronounced on those.

There could be other differences between the two renderers, but this is what I was able to spot immediately after starting the tutorial level.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 13 of 153, by Joseph_Joestar

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Baggins on the GOG forums provided an in-depth analysis of the Glide and Direct3D renderers in Clive Barker's Undying, including side-by-side screenshot comparisons.

The game is limited to 16-bit color depth in Glide mode, which produces banding issues and such. However, he does say that the banding isn't as noticeable on a real 3DFX card, compared to software-based Glide wrappers. In Direct3D mode, the game can use 32-bit color depth, but it has much worse lighting effects.

Still, it's not really clear cut which renderer is better, so I won't be including Undying in this list. But I thought I should still mention it for reference purposes.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 14 of 153, by auron

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i remembered that i had the redeemer effect in UT look correct on a TNT2 once in D3D, with either 1999 or 2000 drivers, so i just tested it on a voodoo3 (1.07.00 drivers w/ v436 game) and it works there too. so this is really a driver issue more than anything, may be worth looking into when nvidia broke this and how ati fares.

it should also be mentioned that fog can be manually enabled as well in the D3D renderer, however the washed out image always looked bad to me and even fiddling with the brightness setting can't seem to quite get a result that matches glide.

Reply 15 of 153, by Joseph_Joestar

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auron wrote on 2023-08-20, 13:07:

i remembered that i had the redeemer effect in UT look correct on a TNT2 once in D3D, with either 1999 or 2000 drivers, so i just tested it on a voodoo3 (1.07.00 drivers w/ v436 game) and it works there too. so this is really a driver issue more than anything, may be worth looking into when nvidia broke this and how ati fares.

Can confirm that the Redeemer weapon displays correctly under Direct3D on my TNT2 M64 using driver version 3.68.

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I did notice that the lights on the ceiling got a bit fuzzier with that card/driver and the game's UI was occasionally glitching out (see bottom right corner of the screenshot).

it should also be mentioned that fog can be manually enabled as well in the D3D renderer, however the washed out image always looked bad to me and even fiddling with the brightness setting can't seem to quite get a result that matches glide.

Yeah, the washed out look seems to be inherent to the stock Direct3D renderer. The colors in Glide mode look more vibrant.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 16 of 153, by leileilol

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-08-19, 14:30:

Starsiege Tribes

Not really about looks but OpenGL thrashes hard when dealing with dynamic lights (the way Tribes does it is replace parts of low-res luxels with a quickly uprez'd texture buffer to render a dynamic light on. This is more of a case of bad renderer implementation like Unreal (GL support came in a later patch), so Glide's better here

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-08-19, 14:30:

Turok

Probably only when there's lots of fallbacks in the Direct3D renderer, and the SGL renderer is for PCX2 cards which don't have the best alpha blend precision (and modulates differently)

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-08-19, 14:30:

Ultima IX

Doesn't that feature S3TC textures?

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Reply 17 of 153, by chinny22

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As this is list only icomparing glide against Direct 3D and Open GL I would argue Mechwarrior 2 should still be included (assuming glide is the better version)
Maybe with a side note stating the PowerVR is the superior version overall.

Appreciate your work though! Never owned a glide card back in the day and now that I do was looking forward to amazing graphics then found it hard to notice much difference in Diablo 2 -Now I know
NFS3 I noticed fog and lighting missing that had been missing.
I think NFS4 also benefits from fog, say on Celtic Runes track? I'd check but my reto fleet is currently immigrating to Australia

Reply 18 of 153, by Baoran

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I have remember Lands of Lore 3 looking better with glide back then but I cant test that myself right now. Even in the latest patch notes it recommends using glide instead of direct3D when possible.

Reply 19 of 153, by Joseph_Joestar

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leileilol wrote on 2023-08-20, 22:40:
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-08-19, 14:30:

Starsiege Tribes

Not really about looks but OpenGL thrashes hard when dealing with dynamic lights (the way Tribes does it is replace parts of low-res luxels with a quickly uprez'd texture buffer to render a dynamic light on. This is more of a case of bad renderer implementation like Unreal (GL support came in a later patch), so Glide's better here

Thanks, removed from the preliminary list, unless someone can showcase visual improvements in Glide mode. And yeah, Glide performance being better than Direct3D/OpenGL was not uncommon at that time.

leileilol wrote on 2023-08-20, 22:40:
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-08-19, 14:30:

Turok

Probably only when there's lots of fallbacks in the Direct3D renderer, and the SGL renderer is for PCX2 cards which don't have the best alpha blend precision (and modulates differently)

I'm not too familiar with this game, I just added it because it was on the old list. Could you point out a specific effect that looks better in Glide?

leileilol wrote on 2023-08-20, 22:40:
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-08-19, 14:30:

Ultima IX

Doesn't that feature S3TC textures?

Same as with Turok, I just addd this because it was on the old list. I do remember Voodoo 4 and 5 supporting at least DXTC (maybe S3TC too?) but I'm not sure if that could be utilized in Glide mode.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi