PCIe works just fine on Windows 9x. The OS doesn't care.

The only problem is whether or not there are drivers for said PCIe devices for Windows 9x.

mawendir wrote on 2022-05-29, 15:07:

Hello people. I've been trying to build a Windows 98 machine for over a year now but it's really hard to find right hardware. So […]
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Hello people. I've been trying to build a Windows 98 machine for over a year now but it's really hard to find right hardware. So I juat bought this GPU but my MoBo has no PCI-E slot, as I wanted to use ATI Radeon X800 PRO AGP but it turns out it doesn't work.

As far as I know, it gets really messy when it comes to getting PCI-E hardware working on Windows 98 but it sometimes does.

Wonder if it's worth the trouble to find and buy all of other hardwares that are compatible with my new GPU or should I just sell it and buy an older one with AGP support?

I know it would be bettee if I just build an XP machine with it but my plan is to build a 98 machine and play some games (early-mid 2000's games) while having a good time using 98.

Appreciate the help already!

The PCI Express version of the Radeon X850XT works perfectly on Win98 (though getting the drivers to install might not always be a smooth experience).
The best part is that you don't even need to install any motherboard chipset drivers (which probably don't even exist for Win98).
Take a look at Phil's video, it might be helpful.

Thanks a lot guys, I was confused if it's possible to get it working or worth tje trouble at all. I know Phil's video, watched it twice and follow him in regular basis (thank you too, Phil) but don't know if he mentions which Catalyst version works with it, 6.2 maybe? Any idea about that? Which driver I should use?

mawendir wrote on 2022-05-29, 15:40:

I know Phil's video, watched it twice and follow him in regular basis (thank you too, Phil) but don't know if he mentions which Catalyst version works with it, 6.2 maybe? Any idea about that? Which driver I should use?

Yes, Catalyst 6.2 is the only option when it comes to the Radeon X8xx series. And it works quite well, actually.
Phil does mention the driver version here.

Thanks a lot, I didn't recall that he mentioned it. So one last thing, I know Phil told about some MoBo's, but are there any other options that support 98 with PCI-E ports?

mawendir wrote on 2022-05-29, 16:05:

Thanks a lot, I didn't recall that he mentioned it. So one last thing, I know Phil told about some MoBo's, but are there any other options that support 98 with PCI-E ports?

You're welcome.
I've tested a few random motherboards (based on chipsets such as the Intel P45, Intel P67, like the Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R, Asus P8P67) and they've all worked, so my guess is that most of these would work.

You can go all the way up to at least the x79 chipset for 98SE. Pretty sure x99 should work as well.

As long as the motherboard supports legacy (BIOS) boot an not only UEFI boot it should work.

cyclone3d wrote on 2022-05-29, 20:21:

As long as the motherboard supports legacy (BIOS) boot an not only UEFI boot it should work.

That's part of it, yes. But then there are also smaller things like having two PS/2 connectors for both mouse and keyboard (makes things much easier when dealing with Win98), having a few standard PCI slots, etc.

I tend to stick to AGP for Win98, for the reasons mentioned above. The board is more likely to have a deaign that has full 98 support.

The P5PE-VM has quickly become my favourite dual boot 98SE/WinXP board.

So is there anything else I should consider and keep in mind while choosing a W98 compatible MoBo? Some say on their official website that it supports 2000 and XP, would that be a problem? Or is it okay as long as it supports LGA 775 and comes with legacy BIOS? And what about DDR2 RAMs? Any limitations about frequencies and DDR versions with W98?

It's chipsets you should be concerned about.
Anything in the Intel 8XX range (and older) will have great support for Win98.
Your mileage with Via and especially Nvidia might vary once you get to more recent (from 2004 onwards) chipsets.
CPU wise, you can choose from both camps, but the chipset will be the deciding factor.

If you find a board which supports Win2k and WinXP but has no mention of win98(SE), there is a reason why Win98 is not mentioned. Windows 2000 and Windows XP share the same fundamentals. Windows 98 is very different under the hood. So you need a distinct driver set for Win98.

Native Win98 support would be nice, but it's not required. Since we are talking about a PCI express video card, might as well go all out and get an overkill CPU/motherboard combo, even if it doesn't officially support Win98. 😀
As a matter of fact, none of the boards I mentioned above have Windows 98 support, yet they all worked great (again, no chipset drivers are required, not that you could install them even if you wanted to).

All in all, I haven't noticed any issues with these new motherboards, no instability, etc. They've been rock solid and most games work great. Of course, there will probably be some older titles that have issues with the Radeon X850XT (though I haven't found any among the many games that I tested, and I did test even old games like Final Fantasy 7 with the 1.02 patch).

The advantage of such a build is that it allows you to run all Win98 games at absurd resolutions and settings (while still achieving hundreds of FPS), and, last but not least... it can be VERY cheap compared to the usual period correct Slot 1 builds or overkill AGP systems.
I mean, I for one can easily buy a Core 2 Duo + compatible PCI express motherboard for just $20 (probably even less).
On the other hand, an AGP motherboard with Core 2 Duo & Win98 support (like the Asrock 775i65G or the Asus P5PE-VM), can be extremely expensive (and rare). Same with very powerful/overkill AGP cards.

Some of the X850XT models have "Catalyst 6.2" driver issues with windows 98, while working fine under XP. Mine was an APG version, maybe the PCI-E variant is affected too?
See this thread Radeon X850XT and Windows 98SE problems (Solution for this error is on page 3)

If you need an alternative GPU I would recommend the Geforce 6600GT. They seem to have more then enough power for Win98 games and might be cheap to get as AGP or PCI-E.

subnet_zero wrote on 2022-05-30, 14:06:

Some of the X850XT models have "Catalyst 6.2" driver issues with windows 98, while working fine under XP. Mine was an APG version, maybe the PCI-E variant is affected too?
See this thread Radeon X850XT and Windows 98SE problems (Solution for this error is on page 3)

Yes, I've also had to flash one of my X800XT AGP cards and modify the device ID to make the Catalyst driver work.
Did not have this issue with the X850XT PCI Express variant, though (but some models might be affected by this). Anyway, it's an easy fix.

subnet_zero wrote on 2022-05-30, 14:06:

If you need an alternative GPU I would recommend the Geforce 6600GT. They seem to have more then enough power for Win98 games and might be cheap to get as AGP or PCI-E.

It's not even close when it comes to compatibility. The GeForce 6xxx series is unusable for me in Win98 (only 30 - 40% of games work, even when using the best driver that I could find, and even some that work exhibit weird issues during gameplay).

The GeForce 5950U is really the ideal Windows 98 card.

1. It supports stuff like table fog and 8-bit palletized textures for those few games that use it.

2. You are CPU limited up to a Core 2 x6800 running at 3.2-3.3Ghz in 3DMark 2001. Yeah, not a perfect test, but no Windows 98 game is going to need anything that fast.

If you have a PCIe system, there are the PCIe versions of the GeForce FX cards, the fastest being the PCX5900.

There are also PCIe Quadro variants of the GeForce FX cards.

A faster video card is really only good for benching as you will have issues with at least some games.

That being said, it is fun to build absolute overkill systems.

cyclone3d wrote on 2022-05-30, 14:18:

The GeForce 5950U is really the ideal Windows 98 card. […]
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The GeForce 5950U is really the ideal Windows 98 card.

1. It supports stuff like table fog and 8-bit palletized textures for those few games that use it.

2. You are CPU limited up to a Core 2 x6800 running at 3.2-3.3Ghz in 3DMark 2001. Yeah, not a perfect test, but no Windows 98 game is going to need anything that fast.

If you have a PCIe system, there are the PCIe versions of the GeForce FX cards, the fastest being the PCX5900.

There are also PCIe Quadro variants of the GeForce FX cards.

A faster video card is really only good for benching as you will have issues with at least some games.

That being said, it is fun to build absolute overkill systems.

True, but the OP already has the PCI-E X850XT. 😀
Table fog and 8 bit palletized textures are way too overrated, IMO. Most people will never need them (or know of their existence).

One thing that the X850XT allows you to do is dual boot Win98/WinXP (which is what I'm doing with these systems). And, compared to the GeForce FX59xx, the X850XT is actually a very capable early WinXP card (particularly when paired with a late Core 2 Duo CPU).

bloodem wrote on 2022-05-30, 14:11:

subnet_zero wrote on 2022-05-30, 14:06:

If you need an alternative GPU I would recommend the Geforce 6600GT. They seem to have more then enough power for Win98 games and might be cheap to get as AGP or PCI-E.

It's not even close when it comes to compatibility. The GeForce 6xxx series is unusable for me in Win98 (only 30 - 40% of games work, even when using the best driver that I could find, and even some that work exhibit weird issues during gameplay).

What might be a cheap and compatible alternative for such a system?

bloodem wrote on 2022-05-30, 13:15:

Native Win98 support would be nice, but it's not required. Since we are talking about a PCI express video card, might as well go all out and get an overkill CPU/motherboard combo, even if it doesn't officially support Win98. 😀
As a matter of fact, none of the boards I mentioned above have Windows 98 support, yet they all worked great (again, no chipset drivers are required, not that you could install them even if you wanted. [...]

My mistake, I misinterpreted OT's post and thought he had an AGP videocard...
I haven't tried Win98 on anything newer than the typical P4 chipsets, I'll give it a go one day.
Never knew the P5PE-VM had become expensive, I got at least 5 from a sale.

flupke11 wrote on 2022-05-30, 15:10:

Never knew the P5PE-VM had become expensive, I got at least 5 from a sale.

Yeah, all motherboards that offer Core 2 Duo support, AGP and full Win98 compatibility are generally expensive and harder to find nowadays (although, if you're lucky you can still find them for cheap on local listings).

subnet_zero wrote on 2022-05-30, 14:58:

What might be a cheap and compatible alternative for such a system?

It depends... If we're talking about a much more compatible (Win98 friendly) alternative to the GeForce 6600/6800 series (and similarly powerful), then there's only one option: one of the Radeon X8xx variants. I've tested all of my favorite games with these cards, and I've had no issues. And if you really want 100% compatibility, you can probably throw a Voodoo 2 in the mix (for Glide games + those few early Win95/98 games that might have issues with the Radeon X8xx).

Oh... right, you also said cheap. 😅 Uhm... the X8xx cards can sometimes be found for a cheaper price, but you'd need to be a bit more patient.
Of course, there are also cards like the Radeon X700 PRO/X600, which are still good and cheaper alternatives (the X700 PRO is generally 20% slower than the GeForce 6600GT, but much more compatible in Win98).

On the nVIDIA side, when it comes to Win98 compatibility & performance, there aren't any real alternatives to the ATI Radeon X8xx. As cyclone3d said, the fastest you can go while also maintaining very good compatibility is the GeForce FX 5950 Ultra (which is more than you need for Win98 anyway), however these cards are almost unobtainium nowadays.
A good alternative would be the GeForce FX 5900XT (also generally overkill for Win98), which with a bit of luck and patience can still be had for more affordable prices and it's capable of running any Win98 game at very high resolutions.
I'm not even going to mention the GeForce FX 5700 Ultra, because this one is also very rare and quite expensive.
So... now we get to the much cheaper (but also much slower) cards like the GeForce FX 5700/5700LE (in the case of the latter, you need to hunt down the 128 bit version, since there are a lot of 64bit variants on the market!). The GPU on the 5700LE is heavily factory underclocked (and so is the memory... depending on the model), so you can get exceptional results through massive overclocking (basically reaching GeForce 4 Ti 4200 speeds).

Which, yeah, brings me to the GeForce 4 Ti 4200 itself. Great card for Win98, and even though it's getting harder to find, you can still sometimes find it for $30 or so. Obviously, it won't come close to big boys like the FX5900/5950 Ultra, but it's generally able to sustain 60+ FPS @ 1600 x 1200 in most Win98 titles.

Bottom line, if you want the best of the best for Win98, then the Radeon X850XT PE is it. 😀