VOGONS


First post, by biessea

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Hi all folks,

After I revived an great old pearl like this IBM Pc, I just wanted to add a CD-ROM driver as it has the 5.25 bay free.

I can't make the system recognize it.

I have only one master hard disk, on the primary IDE, 270MB hard drive from Quantum.

I tried three different CD-ROM drives in the same IDE channel, as SLAVE.

No one of these is recognized.

I really don't know why, and I am asking if it is possibile to make it work.

Probably in the 1994 the cd-rom drives was rare and some systems can't accept at all? Chipset problem?

Someone can help me please.

Thanks a lot guys.

Computer lover since 1992.
Love retro-computing, retro-gaming, high-end systems and all about computer-tech.
Love beer, too.

Reply 1 of 16, by rmay635703

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I had this problem historically where a single channel IDE system would boot normally but the cd drivers could not find the drive during boot up.

Many older systems would not “see” a CD-ROM drive in the bios but this shouldn’t matter.

In some cases I had to change the physical setup of the cabling and even drive configurations

In others the only way I could get a cd to detect during boot was to use a sound card with a ide port.

I am uncertain what the reasons are.

Reply 2 of 16, by jakethompson1

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Right, by "recognize" presumably you're talking about an ATAPI CD-ROM driver in config.sys, not the BIOS, correct? BIOSes did not have to care about CD-ROM drives' existence until El Torito booting was added.

Be aware that with a hard drive and ATAPI CD-ROM sharing the same IDE channel, you won't be able to use 32-bit disk access in Windows 3.1/WfW 3.11.

Reply 3 of 16, by appiah4

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I've had a similar issue with my IBM PS/1, which is basically the same PC. It just refused to detect ATAPI drives as a Primary Slave in BIOS and if the BIOS did not detect them then the driver would not either. IIRC setting it up as a Primary Master worked, but then the HDD did not get detected. I had to go through quite a few optical drives until I eventually hooked up the optical drive through the IDE interface of a Sound Blaster 16 as Secondary Master. I will check on that PC this weekend and confirm.

jakethompson1 wrote on 2022-08-10, 14:34:

Right, by "recognize" presumably you're talking about an ATAPI CD-ROM driver in config.sys, not the BIOS, correct? BIOSes did not have to care about CD-ROM drives' existence until El Torito booting was added.

Be aware that with a hard drive and ATAPI CD-ROM sharing the same IDE channel, you won't be able to use 32-bit disk access in Windows 3.1/WfW 3.11.

Not true for IBM PS/1 or Value/Point systems, these PCs have some hardware detection for CD-ROM and Sound Blaster built right into the BIOS.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 4 of 16, by biessea

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jakethompson1 wrote on 2022-08-10, 14:34:

Right, by "recognize" presumably you're talking about an ATAPI CD-ROM driver in config.sys, not the BIOS, correct? BIOSes did not have to care about CD-ROM drives' existence until El Torito booting was added.

Be aware that with a hard drive and ATAPI CD-ROM sharing the same IDE channel, you won't be able to use 32-bit disk access in Windows 3.1/WfW 3.11.

No, I was talking about recognize the drive in the bios and then in DOS too the driver that I try to load in config.sys doesn't recognize the drive.

Computer lover since 1992.
Love retro-computing, retro-gaming, high-end systems and all about computer-tech.
Love beer, too.

Reply 5 of 16, by biessea

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appiah4 wrote on 2022-08-10, 14:37:

I've had a similar issue with my IBM PS/1, which is basically the same PC. It just refused to detect ATAPI drives as a Primary Slave in BIOS and if the BIOS did not detect them then the driver would not either. IIRC setting it up as a Primary Master worked, but then the HDD did not get detected. I had to go through quite a few optical drives until I eventually hooked up the optical drive through the IDE interface of a Sound Blaster 16 as Secondary Master. I will check on that PC this weekend and confirm.

jakethompson1 wrote on 2022-08-10, 14:34:

Right, by "recognize" presumably you're talking about an ATAPI CD-ROM driver in config.sys, not the BIOS, correct? BIOSes did not have to care about CD-ROM drives' existence until El Torito booting was added.

Be aware that with a hard drive and ATAPI CD-ROM sharing the same IDE channel, you won't be able to use 32-bit disk access in Windows 3.1/WfW 3.11.

Not true for IBM PS/1 or Value/Point systems, these PCs have some hardware detection for CD-ROM and Sound Blaster built right into the BIOS.

Perfect, thanks a lot I wait for your check so, and I am happy that I found an user with my same system basically.

It is strange anyway, I have a secondary Ide channel too, but I haven't tried that way.

Do you think I can use the hard disk as primary master and then the cd-rom as secondary master?

Or it is better to use only one channel and use master/slave configuration?

Computer lover since 1992.
Love retro-computing, retro-gaming, high-end systems and all about computer-tech.
Love beer, too.

Reply 6 of 16, by waterbeesje

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For the CD ROM I always set them to secondary channel, master. That way the CD ROM is not dependent and does not have to share bandwidth with the HDD. File transfer will be a little faster.

As for the hard disk, could it be there is a setting for master with slave, matter without ata drive, slave and single drive?

Stuck at 10MHz...

Reply 7 of 16, by biessea

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waterbeesje wrote on 2022-08-10, 16:57:

For the CD ROM I always set them to secondary channel, master. That way the CD ROM is not dependent and does not have to share bandwidth with the HDD. File transfer will be a little faster.

As for the hard disk, could it be there is a setting for master with slave, matter without ata drive, slave and single drive?

Thanks for the reply.

This hard disk, a Quantum one, has three little jumpers to shunt.

"The LPS 270 has four drive mode jumper options; DS, SP, CS and PO. To configure the drive as:

The MASTER of a two drive configuration or as the only drive: Jumper DS only, SP, CS and PO open.
A SLAVE drive in a two drive configuration: Remove any jumpers across DS, SP, CS or PO.
A MASTER drive in a two drive configuration if the SLAVE drive does not use DASP: Jumper DS and SP only.
CS not used, DO NOT install a jumper across this position.
PO not used, DO NOT install a jumper across this position."

Which one should I shunt if I want to use only one channel and then only one IDE cable? (less trash)

Computer lover since 1992.
Love retro-computing, retro-gaming, high-end systems and all about computer-tech.
Love beer, too.

Reply 8 of 16, by rasz_pl

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> I have a secondary Ide channel too,

use it
master/slave IDE was a kludge/ post hoc hack
https://www.os2museum.com/wp/the-dual-drive-ide-hell/
AFAIR master drive must have explicit support for slave drive in order for the whole thing to work reliably.

Reply 9 of 16, by biessea

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"When the drive is configured as a Master - that is, with the DS
jumper installed - the SP jumper should be installed on the Master
drive only if the Slave drive does not use the Drive Active/Slave
(DASP-) signal to indicate its presence."

Probably on the master drive (the quantum) I have to set TWO jumpers for what I am understanding, the DS and the SP (slave present) and in the cd-rom only shunt the slave jumper? This is a try worth of attention I think. I am now at work but when I'll return home I will try this.

I prefer to use only one channel cause I don't want too much cables inside the case.

Computer lover since 1992.
Love retro-computing, retro-gaming, high-end systems and all about computer-tech.
Love beer, too.

Reply 10 of 16, by biessea

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rasz_pl wrote on 2022-08-10, 17:30:
> I have a secondary Ide channel too, […]
Show full quote

> I have a secondary Ide channel too,

use it
master/slave IDE was a kludge/ post hoc hack
https://www.os2museum.com/wp/the-dual-drive-ide-hell/
AFAIR master drive must have explicit support for slave drive in order for the whole thing to work reliably.

Ok, I've done it.

What a mess with two cables IDE inside a little case like that.

But all works now, my secondary IDE master CD-ROM drive is been recognized by vide-cdd.sys driver and correctly loaded in DOS 6.2.

Thanks at all, for all that replies, at the end I did it.

Computer lover since 1992.
Love retro-computing, retro-gaming, high-end systems and all about computer-tech.
Love beer, too.

Reply 12 of 16, by biessea

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Oh yes, thank you!!!

I put some photos about that system are rocking right now!!!

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Computer lover since 1992.
Love retro-computing, retro-gaming, high-end systems and all about computer-tech.
Love beer, too.

Reply 13 of 16, by appiah4

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Out of curiosity did that PC come with a Sound Blaster 16? And if it did, which exact model?

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 14 of 16, by biessea

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appiah4 wrote on 2022-08-12, 08:46:

Out of curiosity did that PC come with a Sound Blaster 16? And if it did, which exact model?

No, I dind't found a Sb16 only a Lan card inside.

Computer lover since 1992.
Love retro-computing, retro-gaming, high-end systems and all about computer-tech.
Love beer, too.

Reply 15 of 16, by appiah4

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biessea wrote on 2022-08-15, 12:59:
appiah4 wrote on 2022-08-12, 08:46:

Out of curiosity did that PC come with a Sound Blaster 16? And if it did, which exact model?

No, I dind't found a Sb16 only a Lan card inside.

Thanks. I'm trying to figure out which exact model the Multimedia versions of the PS/1 and Value/Point came with. There is conflicting information regarding this, so trying to figure out..

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 16 of 16, by biessea

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appiah4 wrote on 2022-08-15, 13:01:
biessea wrote on 2022-08-15, 12:59:
appiah4 wrote on 2022-08-12, 08:46:

Out of curiosity did that PC come with a Sound Blaster 16? And if it did, which exact model?

No, I dind't found a Sb16 only a Lan card inside.

Thanks. I'm trying to figure out which exact model the Multimedia versions of the PS/1 and Value/Point came with. There is conflicting information regarding this, so trying to figure out..

You're welcome.

Computer lover since 1992.
Love retro-computing, retro-gaming, high-end systems and all about computer-tech.
Love beer, too.