VOGONS


First post, by eddman

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I'm getting illegal operation errors when attempting to install or play Need for Speed 1 SE in PCem. The setup is a P mmx 200 with voodoo 3, running Windows 98 SE.

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I was using driver 1.07. I also tested 1.01 but no change.
When I switch to Virge DX the game works fine.

Does anyone know if this behavior happens on real hardware? I have to check before filing a bug report.

Reply 1 of 17, by BEEN_Nath_58

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eddman wrote on 2022-11-30, 15:04:
I'm getting illegal operation errors when attempting to install or play Need for Speed 1 SE in PCem. The setup is a P mmx 200 wi […]
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I'm getting illegal operation errors when attempting to install or play Need for Speed 1 SE in PCem. The setup is a P mmx 200 with voodoo 3, running Windows 98 SE.

Screenshot 2022-11-30 181900.png Screenshot 2022-11-30 181826.png

I was using driver 1.07. I also tested 1.01 but no change.
When I switch to Virge DX the game works fine.

Does anyone know if this behavior happens on real hardware? I have to check before filing a bug report.

Voodoo 3 has had problem when starting a game with DirectX for me too. I stopped trying to run the game on PCem and instead ran the game natively on main Windows, although that was difficult.

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 2 of 17, by eddman

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BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-12-01, 16:52:

Voodoo 3 has had problem when starting a game with DirectX for me too. I stopped trying to run the game on PCem and instead ran the game natively on main Windows, although that was difficult.

Thanks for the PCem confirmation, but I need to know if it happens on a real voodoo 3 card, perhaps PCI (although I don't know if there ever was a compatibility difference between AGP and PCI models).

Last edited by eddman on 2022-12-01, 22:24. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 3 of 17, by kixs

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It's been some time now since I played any NFS on my dedicated rig for it. But I don't think there were any problems. I use P3-866, 512MB and V3 3000 AGP with Win98SE. Installed are NFS from TNFS:SE to Porsche Unleashed.

Requests are also possible... /msg kixs

Reply 4 of 17, by eddman

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If anyone has a Voodoo3 in a Windows 98 system and Need for Speed: Special Edition (not the original non-SE release), your input is still appreciated.

Last edited by eddman on 2023-03-21, 12:20. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 5 of 17, by Meatball

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Have you tried running the DOS version of NFS SE? Both install packages are on the CD. INSTALLD.EXE is for DOS (No DirectX) and INSTALLW.EXE is for Windows (DirectX 2). I know it doesn't address the root cause, but it may be a viable alternative.

Also, the README says you need:

"- A really big bag of chips and some sodas "

Man, I miss Readme files...

***->WINNER, 1ST PLACE<-***
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Reply 6 of 17, by eddman

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Yes, I'm aware. The DOS installer and game executable work.

The point is to confirm if the Win side issue happens on real hardware or not. I got a response somewhere else from someone running it on a real Windows 2000 system and the same error happened, which is a strong evidence, however I'm looking for Windows 98 setups for more accurate results.

Reply 7 of 17, by kixs

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kixs wrote on 2022-12-01, 19:43:

It's been some time now since I played any NFS on my dedicated rig for it. But I don't think there were any problems. I use P3-866, 512MB and V3 3000 AGP with Win98SE. Installed are NFS from TNFS:SE to Porsche Unleashed.

My response wasn't good enough?

Requests are also possible... /msg kixs

Reply 8 of 17, by eddman

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It was good, thanks, but after I got a report of error on real hardware, I'm looking for more.

Do you remember if you used the dos or windows installer? What driver were you using?

Honestly a new test would be better, so that I can submit it with confidence.

Reply 10 of 17, by kixs

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I guess no test is coming as the machine won't boot. Some weird error on diagnostic card. I haven't used it for at least the last 10 years - probably more 🙁

Requests are also possible... /msg kixs

Reply 11 of 17, by Meatball

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I just tried installing Need for Speed SE and I get the same error on a system with:

Windows 98 SE
DirectX 8.1
Pentium III Tualatin 1.26GHz
266MHz DDR 2-2-2-6
133MHz FSB
Voodoo5 5500

I dropped the bus speeds down to 66MHz and 633MHz CPU, but no progress. DOS version works fine.
I think it's a Windows/DirectX incompatibility with most of the problem being the Windows version of NFS is difficult to get working outside of an early Windows 95 environment. What version of DirectX do you have installed?

***->WINNER, 1ST PLACE<-***
2022 #QUAKE3totheMAX -560.5fps-
Brain Drain Retro LAN https://discord.com/channels/799008837918261328
Windows ME
NForce2 A7N8X-E DLX
Athlon 848/154MHz
DDR@411MHz (2-3-3-3)
GeForce 256 DDR@144/344MHz
ESS Maestr0-1

Reply 12 of 17, by eddman

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Meatball wrote on 2023-03-23, 01:55:

I think it's a Windows/DirectX incompatibility with most of the problem being the Windows version of NFS is difficult to get working outside of an early Windows 95 environment. What version of DirectX do you have installed?

Thanks for the test. It happens with older versions too, including 98 SE's built-in DX 6.1a. It seems the installer checks DirectDraw compatibility/features and doesn't like something about Voodoo cards. It even happens on 98 FE with DX 5.

It looks to be an actual compatibility issue, and not emulator related.

Reply 13 of 17, by NostalgicAslinger

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As i remember: The Windows version of NFS Special Edition only works on one of my faster retro PCs (Pentium MMX 233 with Ati Rage IIC works fine), if I reduce the hardware acceleration of the graphics card in Windows 98 from 100% down to the half or None. The Setup Program starts after reducing and I could install the Windows version.

Would be interesting, if there are some speed changes, compared to the DOS version. Windows version uses DirectX 2.0?

Reply 14 of 17, by BitWrangler

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I always had trouble with NFS1SE on genuine hardware back in the day, but I was probably using original release no later patches. It seemed very tweaky on CPU speed and CDROM drive speed, it didn't like Cyrix CPUs much either. If I was in one of those mortal challenges "Build a system that runs NFS SE first try or forfeit your life muhuhahhaaaa" like happen practically every day... in B movie world... I'd aim low, P100, 430FX, 16MB, 2X CDROM, s3 Trio. ... well I guess not too low, in my perception that's about middle of range that comfortably runs it. Anyway, emulated machines, that might be somewhere to start and bonk it up from.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 15 of 17, by Meatball

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NostalgicAslinger wrote on 2023-03-23, 17:10:

As i remember: The Windows version of NFS Special Edition only works on one of my faster retro PCs (Pentium MMX 233 with Ati Rage IIC works fine), if I reduce the hardware acceleration of the graphics card in Windows 98 from 100% down to the half or None. The Setup Program starts after reducing and I could install the Windows version.

Would be interesting, if there are some speed changes, compared to the DOS version. Windows version uses DirectX 2.0?

This works, Thanks!

I didn't go through the Windows install process, but instead just copied the NFS_WIN.EXE and IFORCE.DLL files over to the DOS install. Files are all the same, otherwise and the game will run with hardware acceleration slider over to 50%.

EDIT: Actually, I just realized there is no sound (DOS mode has sound, though)! So, close... oh well. Man, this game is a piece of work, ha!

ANOTHER EDIT: I'll try reinstalling and see if that changes anything.

FINAL EDIT: No change, perhaps the eddman will have better luck!

***->WINNER, 1ST PLACE<-***
2022 #QUAKE3totheMAX -560.5fps-
Brain Drain Retro LAN https://discord.com/channels/799008837918261328
Windows ME
NForce2 A7N8X-E DLX
Athlon 848/154MHz
DDR@411MHz (2-3-3-3)
GeForce 256 DDR@144/344MHz
ESS Maestr0-1

Reply 17 of 17, by Meatball

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NostalgicAslinger wrote on 2023-03-24, 07:46:

Try also to reduce the Hardware Acceleration of the soundcard.

Darn... I wish I had thought of that. It's too late for me though, I've already torn the machine apart and building a slower one; at least the idea is cataloged here for posterity, though.

***->WINNER, 1ST PLACE<-***
2022 #QUAKE3totheMAX -560.5fps-
Brain Drain Retro LAN https://discord.com/channels/799008837918261328
Windows ME
NForce2 A7N8X-E DLX
Athlon 848/154MHz
DDR@411MHz (2-3-3-3)
GeForce 256 DDR@144/344MHz
ESS Maestr0-1