Planet X3.

Sorry cannot think of any others. Most of the XT EGA games looks so much better with a vga card on a turbo XT, near VGA quality if using a proper monitor.
Just my opinion but IBM may have built the first personal XT's for mass market but some like Laser XT/3 and other clone Turbo XT's are a generation above any of the IBM models IMHO.
Again just my opinion 😀

I played Brix on a PS/2 model 30. That game uses the 256-color VGA mode, and if I remember correctly, I had no significant performance issues. Granted, a 8MHz 8086 machine is more like a Turbo XT like a classic XT, on the other hand, the amount of graphics updates in this game is low enough that it might work fine on a stock PC/XT, too.

senrew wrote on 2023-05-07, 02:39:

I was wondering if there were any games that run at least ok on a stock speed XT that take any kind of advantage of a VGA card. I was thinking maybe some slower games like strategy, etc.

It can be useful for playing text adventures with graphics (Gateway, Wonderland, The Pawn, Spellcasting 101),
those VGA remakes of Sierra On-Line (Space Quest), flight simulators, CD-Man, those Star Trek games (EGATrek, maybe Star Trek 25th Anniversary).

Also nice are the emulation modes, maybe (via mode utility).
Early ISA VGAs can safely emulate Hercules Monochrome graphics on a VGA monitor.
That'sgood enough to run that ancient C64 emulator, for example (needs 286 level CPU; V20 may do).
Or these Korean games from the 90s.

Edit: I really recommend trying out those old shareware CDs.
They contain mostly homebrews or professional shareware releases of EGA/VGA games from the late 80s/90s.

Games like Cool Cat, Digger, Asteroid, Jill of Jungle, In Search of Dr. Riptide, JetPack, etc..

Edit: If you're worried of CGA compatibility..
Most ISA-based VGA cards also contain partial emulation of the registers of the Motorola CRTC.
That's good enough to make the alternate palettes work in games.
However, it must be activated via mode utility.
The normal VGA mode doesn't support it in order to be 100% compatible with the IBM VGA.

Some mode utilities can be found here: Re: Realtek realtalk, is it the best VGA for CGA? What is?

Asteroid (shareware, 640x480 16c VGA) is available here: Re: VGA games with only 16 colors

Wanted to open a thread, found it already existing.

I thought VGA on slowest XT is a convenience upgrade for monitor connection, turns out it works as good or better than CGA.
Especially considering the fact that CGA universe is not that cohesive. Machines released after EGA was born tend to have some form of CGA+ because EGA was expensive. And that may not work with advanced CGA programming techniques. For example Olivetti computers, I'm not sure even one model has a normal CGA in, they're proprietary cards implementing CGA and something more, but the entire array of 6845 registers may not work. On M19, they don't.

For example Commander Keen 1 works flawlessly in VGA mode. Which is logical because CPU doesn't need to update tiles on scroll like it does with CGA or EGA.

Games that are straight simple EGA programming might run slower due to increased number of bytes per pixel, but not slower than Plantronics mode (M19) which is same amount of pixels but on separate memory locations with a single fixed palette.

In the following period I'll try out more stuff, focusing on games that run VGA and sound from conventional memory. I'll also compare how CGA/EGA games run in EGA mode.

Of top of my head:

Dangerous Dave (the first one)
Challenge of the Ancient Empires
Prince of Persia (but slow)

I remember playing "Outrun" on a XT with VGA (game has an EGA mode iirc) that looked ok. Eye of the Beholder II plays on a XT.
Not being a Turbo XT you are limited.
Here is a XT game list you may want to look over (hidden due to source)

Future Wars ran on a 5150 w/ vga

Can’t say it was pleasant but it ran

Of all that list I only recognize PoP and IronMan Offroad having VGA. I also add Operation Wolf. Though I don't like OpWolf or Offroad's VGA because it doesn't actually use 256 colors, but rather only redefine 16 colors to a nicer color palette than EGA's.

zb10948 wrote on 2023-12-30, 15:29:

Wanted to open a thread, found it already existing. […]
Show full quote

Wanted to open a thread, found it already existing.

I thought VGA on slowest XT is a convenience upgrade for monitor connection, turns out it works as good or better than CGA.
Especially considering the fact that CGA universe is not that cohesive. Machines released after EGA was born tend to have some form of CGA+ because EGA was expensive. And that may not work with advanced CGA programming techniques. For example Olivetti computers, I'm not sure even one model has a normal CGA in, they're proprietary cards implementing CGA and something more, but the entire array of 6845 registers may not work. On M19, they don't.

For example Commander Keen 1 works flawlessly in VGA mode. Which is logical because CPU doesn't need to update tiles on scroll like it does with CGA or EGA.

Games that are straight simple EGA programming might run slower due to increased number of bytes per pixel, but not slower than Plantronics mode (M19) which is same amount of pixels but on separate memory locations with a single fixed palette.

In the following period I'll try out more stuff, focusing on games that run VGA and sound from conventional memory. I'll also compare how CGA/EGA games run in EGA mode.

Hi there, there's also an important utility to have when it comes to CGA games, maybe.
It's the Spanish utility "Verde" (green). It does give CGA games a greenish tint, a simulation of monochrome video monitors.

Some sofware to do fake EGA scanlines?

In addition it supports things like disabling line doubling (320x400 becomes 320x200).
Not sure exactly how it works (real 200 lines, or adding black lines in-between).
I assume it really fiddles with VGA registers here, since a monitor of mine went out of sync when doing that.

Unfortunately, the utility may not work in hardware-assisted CGA emulation modes of certain VGA cards (via mode utility).
On the other hand, it may not need to. Once the image is turned into shades of green, there's little need for CGA palettes anymore, anyway.

The original Prehistorik Titus 1991 should run on an XT and has a VGA mode, requires DOS 3.0+ and 512k ram from the readme but no cpu mentioned...
am currently rebuilding my xt psu so cannot try it.

Horun wrote on 2023-12-31, 18:06:

The original Prehistorik Titus 1991 should run on an XT and has a VGA mode, requires DOS 3.0+ and 512k ram from the readme but no cpu mentioned...
am currently rebuilding my xt psu so cannot try it.

It runs on 4.77MHz 512kB CGA well.
Prehistorik 2 requires a 286.

Jo22 wrote on 2023-12-31, 09:04:

Hi there, there's also an important utility to have when it comes to CGA games, maybe. It's the Spanish utility "Verde" (green). […]
Show full quote

Hi there, there's also an important utility to have when it comes to CGA games, maybe.
It's the Spanish utility "Verde" (green). It does give CGA games a greenish tint, a simulation of monochrome video monitors.

Some sofware to do fake EGA scanlines?

In addition it supports things like disabling line doubling (320x400 becomes 320x200).
Not sure exactly how it works (real 200 lines, or adding black lines in-between).
I assume it really fiddles with VGA registers here, since a monitor of mine went out of sync when doing that.

Unfortunately, the utility may not work in hardware-assisted CGA emulation modes of certain VGA cards (via mode utility).
On the other hand, it may not need to. Once the image is turned into shades of green, there's little need for CGA palettes anymore, anyway.

I'll try it out. Doubtful it can replicate the original "CGA" of my system. It runs below the usual scanrate and the monitor uses some 'tricks' to not flicker while at it, which creates a ton of motion blur. Also the image stays on the screen for minutes after turning it off. It's...an interesting experience for games, to say the least. Sometimes it looks like sprites are teleporting with their former shadow still alive for seconds.

wbahnassi wrote on 2023-12-30, 18:54:

Of top of my head: […]
Show full quote

Of top of my head:

Dangerous Dave (the first one)
Challenge of the Ancient Empires
Prince of Persia (but slow)

Thx, I'll check out Challenge I've never heard of it. Dave and Prince are staples on my XT since forever. Prince runs barely but it's better than nothing. Dave runs well.

Horun wrote on 2023-12-31, 02:34:

I remember playing "Outrun" on a XT with VGA (game has an EGA mode iirc) that looked ok. Eye of the Beholder II plays on a XT. N […]
Show full quote

I remember playing "Outrun" on a XT with VGA (game has an EGA mode iirc) that looked ok. Eye of the Beholder II plays on a XT.
Not being a Turbo XT you are limited.
Here is a XT game list you may want to look over (hidden due to source)

Spoiler

³ 8088 STATE RELEASE LIST ³
ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÂÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ´
³ Updated : Oct. 17, 1996 ³ Organized by: WaxMaster ³
ÀÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÁÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÙ

³ Game Title ³ Filename ³ Size (k) ³
ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÅÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÅÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ´
³ Jumpman Lives! ³ 8088jmp2.zip ³ 126k ³
³ Tass Times in Toon Town ³ 8088tass.zip ³ 254k ³
³ Dark Heart of Uukrul ³ 8088ukrl.zip ³ 437k ³
³ Nightmare on Elmstreet ³ 8088frdy.zip ³ 318k ³
³ Manhunter: New York ³ 8088mhny.zip ³ 503k ³
³ Manhunter: San Francisco ³ 8088mhsf.zip ³ 1440k ³
³ Capone ³ 8088capo.zip ³ 238k ³
³ Sinbad ³ 8088sbad.zip ³ 622k ³
³ Arctic Fox ³ 8088afox.zip ³ 81k ³
³ Araknoid ³ 8088ark.zip ³ 85k ³
³ All Points Bulletin ³ 8088apb.zip ³ 111k ³
³ Elite 1 ³ 8088elt1.zip ³ 53k ³
³ Altered Beast ³ 8088abst.zip ³ 578k ³
³ Hard Hat Mack ³ 8088hhmk.zip ³ 21k ³
³ Beetlejuice ³ 8088bjce.zip ³ 159k ³
³ Rogue ³ 8088roge.zip ³ 57k ³
³ Leather Goddesses of Phobos ³ 8088lgop.zip ³ 135k ³
³ Spiderman ³ 8088spdr.zip ³ 114k ³
³ Alternate Reality, The City ³ 8088artc.zip ³ 240k ³
³ 2400 AD ³ 80882400.zip ³ 126k ³
³ Wizard's Crown ³ 8088wzcr.zip ³ 140k ³
³ Autodeul ³ 8088auto.zip ³ 231k ³
³ Maniac Mansion ³ 8088mans.zip ³ 198k ³
³ Defender of the Crown ³ 8088doc.zip ³ 187k ³
³ Toobin' ³ 8088toob.zip ³ 145k ³
³ Elite Plus ³ 8088eltp.zip ³ 244k ³
³ War of the Lance ³ 8088wotl.zip ³ 191k ³
³ XMas Lemmings ³ 8088xmas.zip ³ 201k ³
³ Jordan vs. Byrd: 1 on 1 ³ 80881on1.zip ³ 280k ³
³ The Jetsons ³ 8088jtsn.zip ³ 108k ³
³ Marble Madness ³ 8088mmad.zip ³ 213k ³
³ Phantasie 1 ³ 8088ph1.zip ³ 193k ³
³ Phantasie 3 ³ 8088ph3.zip ³ 175k ³
³ Might and Magic 1 ³ 8088mm1.zip ³ 247k ³
³ Might and Magic 2 ³ 8088mm2.zip ³ 547k ³
³ Realms ³ 8088rlms.zip ³ 315k ³
³ Prince of Persia ³ 8088prp1.zip ³ 350k ³
³ Populous ³ 8088pop1.zip ³ 389k ³
³ Moebius ³ 8088moeb.zip ³ 260k ³
³ Tunnels of Armageddon ³ 8088tnls.zip ³ 278k ³
³ Zany Golf ³ 8088zany.zip ³ 410k ³
³ Windwalker ³ 8088wwlk.zip ³ 529k ³
³ Command HQ ³ 8088cmhq.zip ³ 251k ³
³ Castlevania ³ 8088cvan.zip ³ 332k ³
³ Deja Vu 2 ³ 8088djv2.zip ³ 460k ³
³ Times of Lore ³ 8088lore.zip ³ 268k ³
³ Last Ninja 2 ³ 8088lnj2.zip ³ 319k ³
³ Shinobi ³ 8088shin.zip ³ 244k ³
³ Outrun ³ 8088otrn.zip ³ 258k ³
³ Offroad ³ 8088ofrd.zip ³ 296k ³
³ Metal Gear ³ 8088mtgr.zip ³ 241k ³
³ Ultima 4 ³ 8088ult4.zip ³ 342k ³
³ Ultima 5 ³ 8088ult5.zip ³ 688k ³
³ Shadow Gate ³ 8088sgte.zip ³ 398k ³
³ Bard's Tale 1 ³ 8088bt1.zip ³ 508k ³
³ Bard's Tale 2 ³ 8088bt2.zip ³ 503k ³
³ Bard's Tale 3 ³ 8088bt3.zip ³ 833k ³
³ Nuclear War ³ 8088nkwr.zip ³ 556k ³
³ Star Control 1 ³ 8088sc1.zip ³ 568k ³
³ Star Control 2 ³ 8088sc2.zip ³ 4317k ³
³ 3 Stooges ³ 8088stoo.zip ³ 574k ³
³ Return of Medusa ³ 8088mdsa.zip ³ 614k ³
³ Low Blow ³ 8088lblw.zip ³ 711k ³
³ Keef the Thief ³ 8088keef.zip ³ 850k ³
³ Rampart ³ 8088rmpt.zip ³ 898k ³
³ Rastan ³ 8088rstn.zip ³ 1227k ³
³ Loom ³ 8088loom.zip ³ 1202k ³
³ Flashback ³ 8088flbk.zip ³ 1437k ³
³ Eye of the Beholder 2 ³ 8088eob2.zip ³ 1924k ³
³ Colonel's Bequest ³ 8088bqst.zip ³ 2550k ³
³ Tongue of the Fat Man ³ 8088fat.zip ³ 578k ³
³ Dungeon Master ³ 8088dm.zip ³ 874k ³
³ Castle Adventure ³ 8088cstl.zip ³ 42k ³
³ Hyperspeed ³ 8088hypr.zip ³ 1767k ³
³ Neuromancer ³ 8088nero.zip ³ 629k ³
³ Lamers ³ 8088lame.zip ³ 236k ³
³ Telenguard ³ 8088teln.zip ³ 85k

Many thanks for this, looks like a really comprehensive list.

P.S. I'm doing VGA stuff on a recently bought spare M19 that I can risk messing around with, I also intend to put a 8MHz chip in. It's also at 640kb RAM with parity. My original M19 will remain with original CPU and 512kB ram and CGA. So I'll have two XT machines for comparison, one average and one with higher specs.

Are Turbo XTs significantly faster than 8MHz one for games?

8Mhz XT's are essentially Turbo XT. Original XT's are 4.77Mhz, so 8Mhz is a 67% faster cpu, the 10mhz Turbo XT's are 210% faster than 4.77Mhz.
Why they are called Turbo is there is a button or key combo to "de-turbo" them back to 4.77Mhz for original XT compatibility....your board does not seem to have that feature, it either runs at 4.77 or at 8Mhz....
That list has all XT games, only a few are EGA or VGA....

Ok, I thought "turbo" are versions from 10 MHz above, which my board does not support.

If NEC V20 is almost twice as fast in some things on same clock, does that mean V20 at 8MHz is almost twice as fast as Fujitsu or Siemens 4.77MHz?

I have them both in M19. I haven't explored much, but these chips don't seem to be documented as anything more than clones.

The Juko ST v1 runs 8Mhz and has a switch header to de-turbo to 4.77 and the ZETA actually runs at 9.5Mhz (but they call it 10Mhz) and also has a turbo switch header. It is the switch header for front panel or a Keyboard combo that makes it a "turbo". If it just runs at 8 or 10Mhz without ability to hit the "turbo charge button" then it just an XT running at what ever speed 😁

Horun wrote on 2024-01-01, 02:05:

8Mhz XT's are essentially Turbo XT. Original XT's are 4.77Mhz, so 8Mhz is a 67% faster cpu, the 10mhz Turbo XT's are 210% faster than 4.77Mhz.
Why they are called Turbo is there is a button or key combo to "de-turbo" them back to 4.77Mhz for original XT compatibility....your board does not seem to have that feature, it either runs at 4.77 or at 8Mhz....
That list has all XT games, only a few are EGA or VGA....

Was it on XT machines that the Ctrl Alt + and Ctrl Alt - key combo turned turbo on and off ? or was that not till later 386/486 machines

Heh I thought that "turbo XT" is a synonym for faster 8088-2's. 😀

I had a number of PCs with turbo back in the day. All my computers of that era were built and not brand, I don't believe they had BIOS key shortcut for turbo on/off.
Also they did not drop down to XT speed as far as I remember. 100% that front case displayed 20 on a 40MHz CPU with turbo off, by feeling it was slowed down by half and not to XT speed.

"Old" games did not work without moslo even with turbo off.

For this case Interesting is a 1.75 playback speed on Youtube. If you put Prince on 8088 video on that speed, the game looks smooth. If V20 gives 175% speed increase it looks like a valuable and trivial upgrade. My idea is not "modding" a XT to perform as fast as possible, it's to document what can be done easily, like replacing graphics card and CPU, and have playable games in as much as colour possible. Both of these are still plenty cheap and abundant.

Some full scroll games like Secret Agent are barely playable and more like a proof of concept on normal 8088. With NEC things might run way better, walk scrolling should be good and fall scrolling could be OK. I think with these games it is the number of interactive objects that CPU is tracking and not redraws that waste the cycles. It's likely that Secret Agent is moving level objects all the time regardless of visibility - the moving platforms at least. I've played a ton of Caves and Agent, IMO you can't offscreen platforms and enemies, everything moves all the time. This can be a linear speed increase depending on how the level is stored in memory, as the memory access is what it is, it won't increase with faster CPU.

Also have Fujitsu, and Siemens 8088 in M19s. These should be straight 8088 clones, but I might still benchmark them both against V20 8MHz.

Horun wrote on 2024-01-01, 02:05:

That list has all XT games, only a few are EGA or VGA....

This is not even a third of the games that can run on XT, I wonder what is the criteria for this list?

Text mode games are missing. Basic CGA games like Digger too. Then 'full' games like Pharaon's Tomb or Monuments of Mars, and full major titles like Carmen Sandiego. And smaller production games like Space Commanders, Paratrooper, etc.

It was a list compiled by some warez group in 1996, so yeah not a complete list of all 8088 games. I could not find any other simple quick lists 🤣.