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Realtek realtalk, is it the best VGA for CGA? What is?

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First post, by BitWrangler

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Hi Vogons,

I am collecting info prior to dragging out 286 systems/parts and trying to do a late 80s build that can cover most of the 80s and the base PC compatible releases into the 90s. I want to use a VGA card that can do CGA modes well, whether through manufacturer emulator/driver or 3rd party driver or "just works". I am unconcerned, to a point, with fastest VGA performance, I do not think it matters much for what I am intending. The Harris 25mhz crowd may disagree, but this is not a system I will be attempting Wing Commander on. I am not anticipating requiring better than 640x480 or more than 256kB video RAM. I have "real" CGA parts, but I am reserving those for PC/XT class use. I am not entirely sure what speed CPU I will end up with, I think I have a 20Mhz board/CPU, which I may reserve for a more "performance" build, but the parts/machines I have seen most recently are down at the 10Mhz drag-ass end, ideally I want to be around 16, but we'll see what turns up.

Only real review of CGA on VGA I can find on here is a number of years old...
CGA Compatibility Tester vs. VGA cards
and covers some basics but not a lot really, or in detail on many cards.

I have been hearing the Realtek VGA has a super double secret CGA mode, by driver, but can't dig out much info on that, possibly because realtek are not too popular for it's VGA performance abilities, in 386 up they suck. If anyone knows where to find the software/drivers for realtek that would be great, also any known testing of such would be good to know about.

Other contenders buried somewhere in the hoard, are an older Oak chipset card, an early ATI VGA, and I've got Tridents like the Pharaoh had plagues. Not sure what will turn up when the right box is found, so others possible.

Another consideration should of course be whether it's terrible at EGA or not. It's kind of assumed that in the main VGA are "okay" at EGA but I think there's some particular broken-ness around.

To be totally clear, I'm wanting info about cards that render CGA modes at VGA monitor scan rates through the VGA port, not the ones that have multi mode chipsets that can be jumpered/switched to CGA output for a CGA monitor.

So all I want really is an ISA VGA that has best backward CGA compatibility with EGA compatibility and is already somewhere in my house and mines bitcoins at one block a day is that too much to ask? .... okay maybe I'll skip the bitcoin requirement.

Thanks in advance...

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 1 of 6, by Grzyb

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Realtek has good CGA compatibility mode, but not better than Trident 8900/9000...
Re: Arrived ISA 8 bit RTVGA boards

Żywotwór planetarny, jego gnijące błoto, jest świtem egzystencji, fazą wstępną, i wyłoni się z krwawych ciastomózgowych miedź miłująca...

Reply 2 of 6, by BitWrangler

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That is a nice comparison, thank you.... but awww crap, do we have to admit Tridents are good at something? 🤣 Is there any reason to suspect such support worsened or improved over the range of models through revisions, 8900D 9000C etc? SVM should be in with the trident driver packages?

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 3 of 6, by Grzyb

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Trident 8900/9000 chips ARE good in CGA/Hercules compatibility, and I don't think there are any differences between revisions in this matter.

The bad press about Tridents is due to:
- slow video memory access in 9000 and most 8900 variants, only the 8900D is fast
- no more than 256 colors in 9000 and most 8900 variants, only the 8900D is typically coupled with a TrueColor RAMDAC
- no acceleration in any ISA chips, and even in the first generation VLB chips

But it should be noted that even the slow Tridents are faster than Realteks - So Realtek made a Video chip: RTG3105iEH

Żywotwór planetarny, jego gnijące błoto, jest świtem egzystencji, fazą wstępną, i wyłoni się z krwawych ciastomózgowych miedź miłująca...

Reply 4 of 6, by Jo22

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Hi there. 🙂 Yes, mode utilities were part of the driver diskette.
Unfortunately, the driver at vogonsdrivers had been stripped from everything 'unnecessary', it seems.
No AutoCad drivers, no GEM drivers, no Windows 2.x drivers, no OS/2 drivers, etc. Merely Windows 3.x drivers are still part of it. 😒
With a few exceptions, of course. Some VGA driver packages seem to include more than Windows 3.x files, still.

Anyway, I do have a copy of SVM here. I'll attach it here soon. 🙂

Edit: Here's a small compilation of mode utilities for various SVGA graphics chips, to make sure they're at hand, if needed.
If you can, please grab the complete packages at http://files.mpoli.fi/hardware/DISPLAY/
The real thing is much better. This archive is merely an attempt at saving the utilities in one place.

Attachments

  • Filename
    modeutils_isasvga.zip
    File size
    612.92 KiB
    Downloads
    5 downloads
    File comment
    Compilation of mode utilities for Super VGA cards (ISA) rev 0.2b
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
Last edited by Jo22 on 2024-03-24, 15:04. Edited 3 times in total.

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Reply 5 of 6, by zyga64

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Grzyb wrote on 2023-03-23, 05:20:

- no more than 256 colors in 9000 and most 8900 variants, only the 8900D is typically coupled with a TrueColor RAMDAC

Actually TVGA9000C based cards were often paired with TrueColor TKD8001 DAC, but with 512kB video memory it is useless anyway.
...but I can confirm that I was able to view 512x480 16bit JPGs on my 286 😀

Integrated models (TVGA9000i) are worse in this regard - 256 color max.

1) VLSI SCAMP /286@20 /4M /CL-GD5422 /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /16M /TGUI9440 /GUS+ALS100+MT32PI
3) i430FX /K6-2@400 /64M /Rage Pro PCI /ES1370+YMF718
4) i440BX /P!!!750 /256M /MX440 /SBLive!
5) iB75 /3470s /4G /HD7750 /HDA

Reply 6 of 6, by maxtherabbit

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Grzyb wrote on 2023-03-23, 05:20:
Trident 8900/9000 chips ARE good in CGA/Hercules compatibility, and I don't think there are any differences between revisions in […]
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Trident 8900/9000 chips ARE good in CGA/Hercules compatibility, and I don't think there are any differences between revisions in this matter.

The bad press about Tridents is due to:
- slow video memory access in 9000 and most 8900 variants, only the 8900D is fast
- no more than 256 colors in 9000 and most 8900 variants, only the 8900D is typically coupled with a TrueColor RAMDAC
- no acceleration in any ISA chips, and even in the first generation VLB chips

But it should be noted that even the slow Tridents are faster than Realteks - So Realtek made a Video chip: RTG3105iEH

the 8900CL is also reasonably fast, not quite as nice as the D but leagues ahead of the C

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