Your conventional memory looks to be on the low side , you probably want it closer to 600kb or more.

Generally the more things you have enabled the more conventional you might need.

Try moving some of that 72kb into high mem and see if that helps free up more conventional.

AppleSauce wrote on 2024-03-26, 01:35:

Your conventional memory looks to be on the low side , you probably want it closer to 600kb or more.

Generally the more things you have enabled the more conventional you might need.

Try moving some of that 72kb into high mem and see if that helps free up more conventional.

How do I do that, exactly? I'm not very knowledgeable with using memory managers. I have EMM386 set up in config.sys (which I think is default anyway I don't remember), and that's about it.

Click this

OpenRift wrote on 2024-03-26, 03:04:

AppleSauce wrote on 2024-03-26, 01:35:

Your conventional memory looks to be on the low side , you probably want it closer to 600kb or more.

Generally the more things you have enabled the more conventional you might need.

Try moving some of that 72kb into high mem and see if that helps free up more conventional.

How do I do that, exactly? I'm not very knowledgeable with using memory managers. I have EMM386 set up in config.sys (which I think is default anyway I don't remember), and that's about it.

I'm a bit rusty myself on the specifics but this reddit post might help.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dosgaming/comments/c … _dos_and_tried/

Basically to sum up what the post says is you add some extra entries to your config.sys to set it up and then preface the drivers with loadhigh to move them to upper memory.

You can use the command mem /c /p to see what specifically is eating the most memory.

Can you upload a copy of your config.sys and autoexec.bat?

AppleSauce wrote on 2024-03-26, 04:21:

I'm a bit rusty myself on the specifics but this reddit post might help. […]
Show full quote

OpenRift wrote on 2024-03-26, 03:04:

AppleSauce wrote on 2024-03-26, 01:35:

Your conventional memory looks to be on the low side , you probably want it closer to 600kb or more.

Generally the more things you have enabled the more conventional you might need.

Try moving some of that 72kb into high mem and see if that helps free up more conventional.

How do I do that, exactly? I'm not very knowledgeable with using memory managers. I have EMM386 set up in config.sys (which I think is default anyway I don't remember), and that's about it.

I'm a bit rusty myself on the specifics but this reddit post might help.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dosgaming/comments/c … _dos_and_tried/

Basically to sum up what the post says is you add some extra entries to your config.sys to set it up and then preface the drivers with loadhigh to move them to upper memory.

You can use the command mem /c /p to see what specifically is eating the most memory.

I managed to get a little further using the advice from the reddit thread. By disabling the Expanded memory via a shortcut to DUNE2.EXE, I was able to go through the title sequence with the music playing, but the digitized sound wasn't playing. Keeping the expanded memory enabled allows me to go through the opening logos with sound, but then I get the same "insufficient memory" error again after that.

When I checked with mem /c /p, MSDOS and EMM386 seem to be using the most RAM, using 17K and 10K respectively.

Garrett W wrote on 2024-03-26, 07:37:

Can you upload a copy of your config.sys and autoexec.bat?

I just changed it to reflect the advice AppleSauce gave.

These are the exact contents of each:

AUTOEXEC.BAT
REM C:\DOS\MOUSE
SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 H5 P300 T6
SET CTSYN=C:\WINDOWS
LH C:\PROGRA~1\CREATIVE\DOSDRV\SBEINIT.COM

CONFIG.SYS
Devicehigh=C:\Windows\Himem.sys
Rem TShoot: Device=C:\Windows\Emm386.exe noems
Devicehigh=C:\Windows\Emm386.exe auto
DOS=HIGH,UMB

IIRC Windows 9x does not need Emm386 to emulate EMS memory. So you could even remove it from autoexec.bat.
I had to habit to configure my systems to boot into real mode DOS, without EMM386. (EMM386 sets the processor in protected mode already) Then running Dune 2 from within Windows 98, to supply it with EMS.

Dune 2 memory requirements and feature fallback behavior are a mess. It would be nice if OpenDune could be made into a proper Protected mode DOS game. But the sound interrupt system is not present in OpenDune.

These days I don't care much for the original DOS version. Because recent Dune dynasty versions have skirmish + consistent attack damage from every direction + sane controls. All of which are a must IMHO.

OpenRift wrote on 2024-03-26, 17:30:

I just changed it to reflect the advice AppleSauce gave. […]
Show full quote

Garrett W wrote on 2024-03-26, 07:37:

Can you upload a copy of your config.sys and autoexec.bat?

I just changed it to reflect the advice AppleSauce gave.

These are the exact contents of each:

AUTOEXEC.BAT
REM C:\DOS\MOUSE
SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 H5 P300 T6
SET CTSYN=C:\WINDOWS
LH C:\PROGRA~1\CREATIVE\DOSDRV\SBEINIT.COM

CONFIG.SYS
Devicehigh=C:\Windows\Himem.sys
Rem TShoot: Device=C:\Windows\Emm386.exe noems
Devicehigh=C:\Windows\Emm386.exe auto
DOS=HIGH,UMB

You can not run Himem.Sys or Emm386.exe as "Devicehigh". These are the programs that make high memory available to the system, and must be run in main.

This is a decent enough guide:
https://hermit.cc/it/dos/config.htm

hilram wrote on 2024-03-26, 20:12:

You can not run Himem.Sys or Emm386.exe as "Devicehigh". These are the programs that make high memory available to the system, […]
Show full quote

OpenRift wrote on 2024-03-26, 17:30:

I just changed it to reflect the advice AppleSauce gave. […]
Show full quote

Garrett W wrote on 2024-03-26, 07:37:

Can you upload a copy of your config.sys and autoexec.bat?

I just changed it to reflect the advice AppleSauce gave.

These are the exact contents of each:

AUTOEXEC.BAT
REM C:\DOS\MOUSE
SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 H5 P300 T6
SET CTSYN=C:\WINDOWS
LH C:\PROGRA~1\CREATIVE\DOSDRV\SBEINIT.COM

CONFIG.SYS
Devicehigh=C:\Windows\Himem.sys
Rem TShoot: Device=C:\Windows\Emm386.exe noems
Devicehigh=C:\Windows\Emm386.exe auto
DOS=HIGH,UMB

You can not run Himem.Sys or Emm386.exe as "Devicehigh". These are the programs that make high memory available to the system, and must be run in main.

This is a decent enough guide:
https://hermit.cc/it/dos/config.htm

Noted. Also I found that running the "auto" parameter with EMM386 disables EMS memory, which some games (i.e. Monster Bash) need in order to have digitized sound, which puts me back at where I started, it seems.

OpenRift wrote on 2024-03-26, 21:42:

hilram wrote on 2024-03-26, 20:12:

You can not run Himem.Sys or Emm386.exe as "Devicehigh". These are the programs that make high memory available to the system, […]
Show full quote

OpenRift wrote on 2024-03-26, 17:30:

I just changed it to reflect the advice AppleSauce gave. […]
Show full quote

I just changed it to reflect the advice AppleSauce gave.

These are the exact contents of each:

AUTOEXEC.BAT
REM C:\DOS\MOUSE
SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 H5 P300 T6
SET CTSYN=C:\WINDOWS
LH C:\PROGRA~1\CREATIVE\DOSDRV\SBEINIT.COM

CONFIG.SYS
Devicehigh=C:\Windows\Himem.sys
Rem TShoot: Device=C:\Windows\Emm386.exe noems
Devicehigh=C:\Windows\Emm386.exe auto
DOS=HIGH,UMB

You can not run Himem.Sys or Emm386.exe as "Devicehigh". These are the programs that make high memory available to the system, and must be run in main.

This is a decent enough guide:
https://hermit.cc/it/dos/config.htm

Noted. Also I found that running the "auto" parameter with EMM386 disables EMS memory, which some games (i.e. Monster Bash) need in order to have digitized sound, which puts me back at where I started, it seems.

Could you give us a picture of all the programs that are listed with mem /c /p

AppleSauce wrote on 2024-03-26, 23:08:

OpenRift wrote on 2024-03-26, 21:42:

hilram wrote on 2024-03-26, 20:12:

You can not run Himem.Sys or Emm386.exe as "Devicehigh". These are the programs that make high memory available to the system, and must be run in main.

This is a decent enough guide:
https://hermit.cc/it/dos/config.htm

Noted. Also I found that running the "auto" parameter with EMM386 disables EMS memory, which some games (i.e. Monster Bash) need in order to have digitized sound, which puts me back at where I started, it seems.

Could you give us a picture of all the programs that are listed with mem /c /p

I don't know exactly what vmm32 is, but I guess that could be causing issues?

Why don't you try this:

SYSTEM.INI
device=c:\windows\himem.sys
device=c:\windows\emm386.exe 2048
dos=high,umb
deviceHigh=c:\windows\command\ansi.sys
files=200
buffers=20

Note: I am not using the <noems> parameter for emm386, precisely because some games require EMS memory. Games that can take advantage of the later standard XMS memory, will have plenty left over even if you dedicate 2 MB to EMS.

For Autoexec.bat, load as many drivers as you can into "LoadHigh".

hilram wrote on 2024-03-27, 09:05:

Why don't you try this: […]
Show full quote

Why don't you try this:

SYSTEM.INI
device=c:\windows\himem.sys
device=c:\windows\emm386.exe 2048
dos=high,umb
deviceHigh=c:\windows\command\ansi.sys
files=200
buffers=20

Note: I am not using the <noems> parameter for emm386, precisely because some games require EMS memory. Games that can take advantage of the later standard XMS memory, will have plenty left over even if you dedicate 2 MB to EMS.

For Autoexec.bat, load as many drivers as you can into "LoadHigh".

Don't you mean Config.sys instead of System.ini? Doesn't really seem like the kind of place to put that.

OpenRift wrote on 2024-03-27, 21:12:

hilram wrote on 2024-03-27, 09:05:

Why don't you try this: […]
Show full quote

Why don't you try this:

SYSTEM.INI
device=c:\windows\himem.sys
device=c:\windows\emm386.exe 2048
dos=high,umb
deviceHigh=c:\windows\command\ansi.sys
files=200
buffers=20

Note: I am not using the <noems> parameter for emm386, precisely because some games require EMS memory. Games that can take advantage of the later standard XMS memory, will have plenty left over even if you dedicate 2 MB to EMS.

For Autoexec.bat, load as many drivers as you can into "LoadHigh".

Don't you mean Config.sys instead of System.ini?

Of course. My bad.

hilram wrote on 2024-03-27, 21:20:

OpenRift wrote on 2024-03-27, 21:12:

hilram wrote on 2024-03-27, 09:05:

Why don't you try this: […]
Show full quote

Why don't you try this:

SYSTEM.INI
device=c:\windows\himem.sys
device=c:\windows\emm386.exe 2048
dos=high,umb
deviceHigh=c:\windows\command\ansi.sys
files=200
buffers=20

Note: I am not using the <noems> parameter for emm386, precisely because some games require EMS memory. Games that can take advantage of the later standard XMS memory, will have plenty left over even if you dedicate 2 MB to EMS.

For Autoexec.bat, load as many drivers as you can into "LoadHigh".

Don't you mean Config.sys instead of System.ini?

Of course. My bad.

Tried it and it didn't really help, unfortunately.

I can load drivers in the autoexec into high with LH right? Because that's what I did.

OpenRift wrote on 2024-03-27, 21:27:

Tried it and it didn't really help, unfortunately.

I can load drivers in the autoexec into high with LH right? Because that's what I did.

LH is equal to LOADHIGH, so no problem there.

Can you at least show me how much free conventional memory there is now, after the change?
( mem /c | more)

And also, how much total RAM is there in the system?

hilram wrote on 2024-03-27, 22:02:

LH is equal to LOADHIGH, so no problem there. […]
Show full quote

OpenRift wrote on 2024-03-27, 21:27:

Tried it and it didn't really help, unfortunately.

I can load drivers in the autoexec into high with LH right? Because that's what I did.

LH is equal to LOADHIGH, so no problem there.

Can you at least show me how much free conventional memory there is now, after the change?
( mem /c | more)

And also, how much total RAM is there in the system?

Here's what I get. I have 128MB total memory.

Also Monster Bash doesn't run at all because it says there isn't enough conventional memory in this configuration.

I did some tests.
With normal means I can run and play Dune2, with sound and music, from within Windows 98, with these conditions:
- Set music to FM. Do not set it to Roland General Midi, for it will require even more base memory, and fail at startup.
- As I wrote earlier I do not use EMM386 here. Windows 98 can supply EMS without it anyways.
Then again I suspect you are using a SB-PCI or SB-Live PCI sound card, which requires EMM386 for its pure DOS driver, which then stays resident as well. Which.. sucks.
- The attached mem/c listing was actually insufficient. Successful Dune2 start was after I removed "doskey2" and "ctmouse" from autoexec.bat, and rebooted.

I also had another boot config with UMBPCI, which opens up a lot of possibilities for freeing base memory. But then there is no EMS in Windows 98. Maybe EMS can be enabled by combining UMBPCI with EMM386. But it is not easy to configure, from what I read here: https://www.mdgx.com/umb.htm