Define what you mean about "all the native supported Games". This is basically a Roland CM32 which is an expanded MT32 and MPU 401 card. Games that support the MT32 can go into the Pentium era of DOS games, but the General MIDI mixes could be the original compositions with an MT32 version ported from that.

If you are thinking about games composed for MT32 in mind. Then it would be older games and a 386 might be what you need.

I mean games that let you choose the card in Sound setup. I know its a CM32L with mpu-401, but there also games using the lapc for Sound fx not only midi music.

Congrats on getting an LAPC-I. They are lovely cards to have in older systems. 😀

The LACP-I does require -5V, but most PSUs and motherboards from the early 90s should support that. And it should work in any ISA slot (8-bit or 16-bit).

Most of the games with MT-32 / LACP-I support will be in the late 80s to early 90s, up to mid-90s or so.

My first choice for that era would be a low-end 486, like a DX-25 or DX-33. Something that isn't too fast for speed sensitive games of that era, and can be throttled down to 386 or 286 speeds.

Second choice would be a fast 386, like a 386DX-33 or DX-40. Again, something that isn't too fast and can still be slowed down as needed.

A 286 would be period correct, but will be more limited in the games it can run. It's good for the EGA era of gaming in the late 80s, but for VGA games a 386 or 486 is a better choice.

Jackhead wrote on 2024-08-18, 18:57:

I mean games that let you choose the card in Sound setup. I know its a CM32L with mpu-401, but there also games using the lapc for Sound fx not only midi music.

This site has a great list of different sound devices and the games that utilize them: https://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2012/04/ … me-support.html

These are the games that are listed as using the LAPC-I and CM-32 extra digital sound effects.

• Another World (aka Out of this World, certain versions only, only uses the sound effects, so no MT-32 support)
• Beneath a Steel Sky
• Cisco Heat
• Curse of Enchantia
• Day of the Tentacle
• Elite Plus
• Fire and Ice
• Inferno
• Humans, The
• Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis
• Laser Squad
• Leisure Suit Larry 5
• Lure of the Temptress
• Magic Pockets
• Microprose Formula One Grand Prix (aka World Circuit)
• Might and Magic III
• Nigel Mansell's World Championship
• Pinball Dreams (early version)
• Pitfighter
• Predator 2
• Prophecy 1: The Viking Child
• Pushover
• Simon the Sorcerer
• Speedball 2
• Supaplex
• Supremacy
• Team Suzuki
• TFX (Tactical Fighter Experiment)
• Toyota Celica GT Rally
• UFO: Enemy Unknown (aka X-Com: UFO Defense)
• Ultima Underworld
• Ultima Underworld II

Seeing that list you'll want at least a 386SX, though a faster would be better for a few of the games. While a 486 might be a little fast for some of them.

great infos , thanks!

looking on late 386 boards i see they are able to hold first 486 as well? That sounds great for testing boths.

SScorpio wrote on 2024-08-18, 19:36:

While a 486 might be a little fast for some of them.

Between a turbo button and cache disabling, a 486 can be easily throttled. 😀

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-08-18, 20:05:

Between a turbo button and cache disabling, a 486 can be easily throttled. 😀

There's lots of way to slow it down, getting it to the speed of a fast 386 is tricky. With the 386, it should be fast enough for anything on that list. And if it's too fast the turbo button alone should make it playable unless it required an XT.

A 486 would let you play more games, but then your in the era of General MIDI which doesn't showcase the sound hardware being discussed.

SScorpio wrote on 2024-08-18, 22:26:

There's lots of way to slow it down, getting it to the speed of a fast 386 is tricky. With the 386, it should be fast enough for anything on that list. And if it's too fast the turbo button alone should make it playable unless it required an XT.

A 486 would let you play more games, but then your in the era of General MIDI which doesn't showcase the sound hardware being discussed.

In my experiences, I've found 486 builds typically slow down to a fast 386 (e.g. DX-33 to DX-40). Although that does depend on the specific motherboard and processor combo, so YMMV.

I do agree that 486 era is getting in GM territory, but there is overlap in that era with MT-32 support. It does come down to which games one plays. For example, with a game like X-COM which imho is best suited to a CM-32L/LAPC-I, I'd want to have a 486 over a 386.

i still have a fast 486 for the later stuff and GM. So i think i will go for a 386 33 or 40 MHz.
What is the best chipset for the 386?

i searched alot about 386 and atm im not really sure to go with a 386/33 setup, or just downgrade my 586 system to a dx2/66 or dx/33 CPU.
So the LAPC-I cant do GM but with the breakout box i can use external GM hardware?
Also wonder how the GUS ACE perform with the LAPC-I.

Jackhead wrote on 2024-08-24, 07:27:

i searched alot about 386 and atm im not really sure to go with a 386/33 setup, or just downgrade my 586 system to a dx2/66 or dx/33 CPU.
So the LAPC-I cant do GM but with the breakout box i can use external GM hardware?
Also wonder how the GUS ACE perform with the LAPC-I.

It exposes an intelligent mode MPU401 interface. The intelligent side AFAIK is only need by some MT32/CM32 stuff, it's unused in the GM era. General MIDI modules will work with most sound cards outside of bugs on some Sound Blasters when you have 16bit digital audio going at the same time. So it can do it, but it's complete overkill.

The GUS ACE should be able to run along side a LAPC-I without issue. Though they are both music focused so outside of an odd ball game or two anything you play would only be using one or the other.

If you want to build a music/audio focused PC that lets you experience the different sound options in games, you might want to think about getting a PicoGUS. Yes it's not original old hardware, but it also gives you CMS and Tandy 3 voice and is configurable on the fly via software.

If you are going this route, please purchase at least a cheap audio mixer to let you control the volumes of the different devices and not daisy chaining the outputs into the inputs of each device. You'll get much better quality sound, and you can't always control the volumes within a game. Here's the cheap one I use. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09TKPTWNJ/

Jackhead wrote on 2024-08-24, 07:27:

i searched alot about 386 and atm im not really sure to go with a 386/33 setup, or just downgrade my 586 system to a dx2/66 or dx/33 CPU.

It really comes down to the games you want to play.

In my experience, a DX2-66 is too fast for speed sensitive game. Dynamix games like Adventures of Willy Beamish and Rise of the Dragon had music issues with MT-32/LAPC-I support with a DX2-66. I had the throttle the system to get music playback to work properly. When I downgraded to a 486 DX-33, those games worked fine with no throttling.

A 386 DX-33 will cover early nineties from about 1990 to 1992 adequately. Once you start getting into games from 1993 and onward, a 486 would be better. For example, X-COM: UFO Defense is more enjoyable on a 486 DX-33 than a 386.

I've built a 386 DX-40, 486 DX-33 and 486 DX2-66. I settled on the 486 DX-33 as the best all-around system for early 90's gaming.

So the LAPC-I cant do GM but with the breakout box i can use external GM hardware?

Yes, you'll need the MCB-1 to be able to connect external modules. Note that it has to be the MCB-1 specifically due to the proprietary wiring. Unfortunately the LACP-I does not work with the standard 15-pin MIDI connectors.

Also wonder how the GUS ACE perform with the LAPC-I.

It will be fine. It's just a matter of configuring hardware resources so devices don't conflict. But since the GUS ACE doesn't have an MPU-401 interface, that's a non-issue.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-08-18, 19:01:

A 286 would be period correct, but will be more limited in the games it can run.
It's good for the EGA era of gaming in the late 80s, but for VGA games a 386 or 486 is a better choice.

I do agree in general, but "the devil is in the details". 😉

That "good for the EGA era of gaming" is absolutely true for 6/8 MHz ATs, but 286 PCs with 12, 16 or 25 MHz are more from VGA era. They can be very close to slow 386 PCs!
Many of those quick 286 PCs had zero wait states and VGA on-board, even. Or Hercules. But not plain EGA.

Super EGA was an exception, maybe, however! Super EGA chips very often supported VGA's mode 12h on a multisync monitor (640x480 16c).
They were an intermediate step between EGA and VGA/Super VGA. DOS paint programs supported them, often. Even in 800x600 and up.

Especially smaller 286 desktop models had VGA soldered to motherboard (cheap VGAs such as ATI VGA Wonder with bus mouse, Trident 9000, etc).
Probably because they were meant to be used as point-of-sales systems, diskless workstations (=thinclients) and terminals.

By the time 12 MHz ATs were common, EGA was pretty much a relic already. Like CGA - with the exception that CGA still was kind of useful for selling cheaptastic Turbo XT clones. Hard to accept, but true. 😉
A 12 or 16 MHz 286 w/ VGA is from era of Wing Commander, SOMI, Sam&Max (floppy version), Lemmings and Rise of the Dragon, Gateway (Legend Entertainment)..
Or let's take Panic in Cobra City: Cobra Mission (20 MHz 286, according to official specs). 😁

To be fair, an 6/8 MHz 286 indeed was part of EGA days, still. Leisure Suit Larry I, Kings Quest III, Space Quest, Zeliard and many more..
The original IBM AT Model 5170 was quite slow, even without the 80286 processor.

So I think it's the ideal speed for speed-sensitive EGA games that rely on accurate AT timings, but same time it won't fully utilize an LAPC-I.
Sierra games used IBM AT timings for the rolling curtain effect if a new location was entered (Space Quest III comes to mind).
So some EGA games may require this for authentic experience.

So in simple words, I'd draw the line for an quick 80286 at 1992/1993.
That's when 32-Bit software and Super VGA became more dominant in PC industry.
Exceptions confirm the rules, though.

If speed was secondary, a 286 could have been kept on desktop until end of Windows 3.1 days.
But that's another story..

That being said, if I had an rare LAPC-I and would have to make a decision, then I would recommend the same as you here! 😁 👍
For sake of compatibility, my vote would go for a fast 386 (386DX-40 with 64-128KB mainboard cache or 486DLC) or an classic 486. Say, 486DX-25 or 486DX-33.
The legendary 486DX2-66 would be the upper limit; also depending on how strong the Turbo button works.

But these are just my two cents. It really depends on the types of games I would want to play. 🤷
Action games have different requirements than "interactive fiction with graphics" (adventures).