willow wrote on 2022-12-28, 12:31:

Does anybody has tested creative alchemy derestrictor to use alchemy even with no sound blaster cards ? https://www.mediafire.co […]
Show full quote

Does anybody has tested creative alchemy derestrictor to use alchemy even with no sound blaster cards ?
https://www.mediafire.com/file/387vesqfe7o91f … or-1.0.zip/file
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Glossary:Sound_card
https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file … ts#comment-1174
"Use Creative ALchemy[16]

Download latest ALchemy 1.45.20
Open the Creative Control Panel and switch on Game mode (X-Fi model only)
Start the ALchemy installer and enable it for the interested games. It may be necessary to add a new profile for the specific game.

Notes

Restores EAX completely (all versions) and surround sound.
Could be made into a universal solution, just like IndirectSound or DSOAL, by using Creative ALchemy Universal (obsolete) or ALchemy Restriction Remover."

Much simpler and working solution for those without a Creative sound card (tested on my Realtek HD Audio ALC295 chipset). Will give echo/reverb and spatial audio as the good old days for games like Quake 4, Prey (2006), Max Payne, Max Payne 2, Prince of Persia (Ubisoft, 2008), Baldur's Gate II (original CD, not the BeamDog version), Dragon's Lair 3D, and more...
Follow this msg: Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

rolloLG wrote on 2023-01-04, 01:29:

willow wrote on 2022-12-28, 12:31:

Does anybody has tested creative alchemy derestrictor to use alchemy even with no sound blaster cards ? https://www.mediafire.co […]
Show full quote

Does anybody has tested creative alchemy derestrictor to use alchemy even with no sound blaster cards ?
https://www.mediafire.com/file/387vesqfe7o91f … or-1.0.zip/file
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Glossary:Sound_card
https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file … ts#comment-1174
"Use Creative ALchemy[16]

Download latest ALchemy 1.45.20
Open the Creative Control Panel and switch on Game mode (X-Fi model only)
Start the ALchemy installer and enable it for the interested games. It may be necessary to add a new profile for the specific game.

Notes

Restores EAX completely (all versions) and surround sound.
Could be made into a universal solution, just like IndirectSound or DSOAL, by using Creative ALchemy Universal (obsolete) or ALchemy Restriction Remover."

Much simpler and working solution for those without a Creative sound card (tested on my Realtek HD Audio ALC295 chipset). Will give echo/reverb and spatial audio as the good old days for games like Quake 4, Prey (2006), Max Payne, Max Payne 2, Prince of Persia (Ubisoft, 2008), Baldur's Gate II (original CD, not the BeamDog version), Dragon's Lair 3D, and more...
Follow this msg: Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

I know this is old. But for anyone that stumble upon it in a google search or something. I made a steam guide with download link to required files for the latest version of Alchemy with the restriction remover (what lets it work on any PC, creative hardware or not). Hopefully it will be useful for someone. I do recommend setting you systems sample rate to 16bit 48000Hz when playing a EAX game. I noticed that up-sampling to say 24 bit 192000Hz causes audio artifacts that are not there when running at 16bit/48. At least in Condemned (prob my fav game in terms of benefiting from EAX).

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filede … /?id=2487107657

I tried latest DSOAL (r444), which uses OpenAL Soft and replaced its dsoal-aldrv.dll (aka soft_oal.dll) with latest version.

But enabling stereo-mode = headphones in alsoft.ini to get positional audio through headphones seems to degrade quality of all audio, including music, in-game videos, menus etc. Does OpenAL Soft just suck that way or can it be configured better? I have 48000 Hz sample rate set in Windows.

It's the HRTF and the resampling

Use this (the lastest): https://github.com/ThreeDeeJay/dsoal/releases … c%2B%2B-rewrite

My Config (using CIAIR, you can search for several HRTF around the web) for alsoft.ini

[General]
channels=stereo
sample-type=int16
frequency=48000
resampler=bsinc24
stereo-mode=headphones
hrtf-mode=full
drivers="wasapi,-dsound,-winmm,"
ambi-format=ambix
stereo-encoding=hrtf
period_size=160
periods=2
hrtf-paths="C:/openal-soft/HRTF,"
default-hrtf=CIAIR_48000
output-limiter=false
dither=false

You can create the same with the bundled utility (of the official 1.24.1 release)

sean8102 wrote on 2024-04-11, 20:41:

I know this is old.

No it's not old: in the guide there's a link to download latest DSOAL (still in development). So you have to copy just 3 files to be always up to date.
It's best solution, not invasive (nothing to "install" system-wide), no hacks, easy and compatible. Copy 3 small files in every EAX game's directory, add a registry key just once for all games and it's done. You'll have reverb and all other fx.
I made it because it's a better solution than older Alchemy patched hacky method.

Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Just remember that sometimes you must do this: https://www.indirectsound.com/registryIssues.html

That's better, though there's still something about OpenAL Soft that may produce glitches with certain games. I tried the final mission in Mafia, when the fight started and after it settled down, there was a constant low frequency noise playing in the background.

I also tried the hack described here to make ALchemy do translating to OpenAL Soft instead of DSOAL and the result was the same. Heh, that hack didn't work back in the day, today it does, must be due to all EAX related features/extensions that were implemented.

I haven't messed with these things in years, also noticed I had older ALchemy version, the old dsound.dll 2.4.2.13 is from 2017, there's a newer version 2.4.2.18 from 2019. It's packed in AECMDMasterInstaller_3.4.92.00.exe, this is full driver / software pack for Sound Blaster AE series sound cards. Same version is also in SBZxRMasterInstaller_3.4.98.00.exe, year 2021, which is for Sound Blaster ZxR.

If you want to use EAX just choose CMSS as HRTF preset (in fact that's what CMSS is, an head related transfer function 😁 ): with EqualizerAPO+HeSuVi you can, but you must do the virtualization with EqualizerAPO and not via OpenAL Soft (so do NOT output OpenAL stream as stereo but 7.1 - knowing OpenAL Soft doesn't use Center and LFE)

Maybe you can even export the preset to use it with OpenAL Soft.....

I never had luck with DSOAL, i tried it with Far Cry 2 (because X-fi + Creative Alchemy has some issues on my system with this game) and sound just doesn't feel right, its too "tiny" like there is no bass at all.

Is it just me, or does Creative keep selling old stuff under different names? Does CMSS thingie on X-Fi cards on Windows XP also have percentage slider for surround effect, which indeed seem to be HRTF? Because the same thing is in Sound Blaster X-Fi MB3 software they used to sell and in their newer Sound Blaster Command that comes with their newer cards. That helps for distinguishing sound coming from behind for newer games that just do multi-channel audio or if you configure OpenAL Soft for old games that way as lowenz suggested, but shouldn't this be theoretically less accurate? Since DirectSound3D used by old games get coordinates of sound emitting object from the game, shouldn't stereo mode with HRTF on DirectSound3D / OpenAL side be better since you have information whether the object emitting sound is above and below you? Extra speakers in multi-channel audio are just behind you, not also above or below you.

KainXVIII wrote on 2024-12-16, 08:04:

I never had luck with DSOAL, i tried it with Far Cry 2 (because X-fi + Creative Alchemy has some issues on my system with this game) and sound just doesn't feel right, its too "tiny" like there is no bass at all.

OpenAL Soft doesn't use LFE because it's (and it was never) intended for *films* and not PC/console gaming. This happens in 5.1/7.1 configuration too so you must always mix it with other channels if you want hear its content.

UCyborg wrote on 2024-12-16, 08:36:

Is it just me, or does Creative keep selling old stuff under different names? Does CMSS thingie on X-Fi cards on Windows XP also have percentage slider for surround effect, which indeed seem to be HRTF? Because the same thing is in Sound Blaster X-Fi MB3 software they used to sell and in their newer Sound Blaster Command that comes with their newer cards. That helps for distinguishing sound coming from behind for newer games that just do multi-channel audio or if you configure OpenAL Soft for old games that way as lowenz suggested, but shouldn't this be theoretically less accurate? Since DirectSound3D used by old games get coordinates of sound emitting object from the game, shouldn't stereo mode with HRTF on DirectSound3D / OpenAL side be better since you have information whether the object emitting sound is above and below you? Extra speakers in multi-channel audio are just behind you, not also above or below you.

HRTF was on fire.....20 years ago and before 😁 (I got lessons in university about HRTF in 2003 autumn!)
Now it can have a "renaissance" thanks to virtual reality visors.

if you configure OpenAL Soft for old games that way as lowenz suggested, but shouldn't this be theoretically less accurate?

Of course but HRTF is the best solution for us humans with 2 ears, if you want accuracy and not crystal clear quality.
First game with OpenAL support (to my knowledge) is Jedi Knight: Outcast so you can use OpenAL Soft without any wrapper since those times (in OpenAL games).

Do I understand you right that less accurate way should keep sound at higher quality (clearer)?

I'm also curious what's the deal with Creative's presets in Sound Blaster Command. They use vastly different surround % setting for different games. From messing around, I like it better to go with the lowest amount that still makes sounds from behind clearly distinguishable.

Didn't mess with Equalizer APO yet.

Yes, you trade spatial accuracy for quality because of positional processing. Just think about Creative way to "suggest" up/down (I don't remember the name of the option but you can find it in CMSS 3D setup, like "elevation" or something)
If you want quality just use stereo with no HRTF or 5.1/.7.1 (having a proper setup)

So how much does DirectSound3D do by its its own on XP without Creative's extra processing? If you have surround setup, which if I understand correctly, is how it was initially designed to work with (correct me if I'm wrong), does it do anything more than balance on which speakers it emits the sound and the volume?

UCyborg wrote on 2024-12-16, 11:15:

So how much does DirectSound3D do by its its own on XP without Creative's extra processing? If you have surround setup, which if I understand correctly, is how it was initially designed to work with (correct me if I'm wrong), does it do anything more than balance on which speakers it emits the sound and the volume?

DirectSound3D much like EAX is born with the classic stereo output in mind. I don't think it does so much being the OpenAL (and Creative created it, interfacing it to EAX 3/4/5 for the effects part) the alternative specifically created with the sound processing in mind (->spatialization part).
Never tested with a real 5.1 setup, I like headphones 😁

Ah, in my experience, finally, Windows 24H2 can handle stereo, 5.1 (side), 5.1 (rear) and 7.1 by itself now, without any brand specific driver.

lowenz wrote on 2024-12-16, 09:12:

KainXVIII wrote on 2024-12-16, 08:04:

I never had luck with DSOAL, i tried it with Far Cry 2 (because X-fi + Creative Alchemy has some issues on my system with this game) and sound just doesn't feel right, its too "tiny" like there is no bass at all.

OpenAL Soft doesn't use LFE because it's (and it was never) intended for *films* and not PC/console gaming. This happens in 5.1/7.1 configuration too so you must always mix it with other channels if you want hear its content.

Well, too bad, thanks for the info!

UCyborg wrote on 2024-12-16, 11:15:

So how much does DirectSound3D do by its its own on XP without Creative's extra processing? If you have surround setup, which if I understand correctly, is how it was initially designed to work with (correct me if I'm wrong), does it do anything more than balance on which speakers it emits the sound and the volume?

DS3D is essentially EAX 1-3, packaged under Microsoft's own API and that's why many old non-Creative soundcards support EAX effects and 3.0 is where they introduced stuff for surround sound. DS has surround functions and you can get some notion of what is what by looking through this stuff here...

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previ ... 5(v=vs.85)

DirectSound has some of its own effects, but EAX is essentially extension that must be implemented in the driver and accessed through this.

Panning 3D sounds on the multi-channel setups actually still works on newer Windows versions (unless game insists on hardware buffers). There's also built-in HRTF functionality for headphones, but must be explicitly requested - reference of DSBUFFERDESC. Who knows if anyone even used it since everyone seemingly relied on Creative's stuff.

Now I remember I must have glanced at that documentation years ago. Don't recall if I tried putting built-in HRTF to use. Even though old Windows has the option to select headphones in control panel, I assume this was used just as the hint at best, the programmer could check in their code if user has headphones and maybe do something differently then.

lowenz wrote on 2024-12-16, 09:12:

KainXVIII wrote on 2024-12-16, 08:04:

I never had luck with DSOAL, i tried it with Far Cry 2 (because X-fi + Creative Alchemy has some issues on my system with this game) and sound just doesn't feel right, its too "tiny" like there is no bass at all.

OpenAL Soft doesn't use LFE because it's (and it was never) intended for *films* and not PC/console gaming. This happens in 5.1/7.1 configuration too so you must always mix it with other channels if you want hear its content.

Are you supposed to mix LFE with only FL and FR? And you mean to mix with Equalizer APO or with some other method?