I put Creative ALchemy's dsound.dll in AIMP's folder on my Win10 install, enabled logging in dsound.ini, set AIMP to use DirectSound. AIMP doesn't specify whether buffer should be created in software or hardware. So that means you can technically get hardware accelerated music playback with retro Creative card? At least I think DirectSound defaults to hardware buffers if not specified otherwise and available.

Speaking of AIMP, the latest version of this program actually installs and runs on Windows XP. Interesting turn of events, pretty sure I read few years back on their forum that the author was convinced supporting XP was pointless.

Sound playback on my XP x64 install with onboard VIA is not flawless, well, at least some interactions with the system sometimes cause momentary audio drop out. I recall noticing it sometimes when minimizing web browser, usually use roytam1's Serpent (fork of Basilisk). It's not something that tends happens on 10 x64, you have to really stress the system before audio starts to suffer. And CPU runs top speed on XP all the time while it scales down on 10, XP doesn't come with CPU power management driver AFAIK. You'd think not scaling down would reduce the chance of audio drop outs.

And every once in the blue moon, NVIDIA's graphics driver 355.98 crashes (though I think it was same with 368.81). Probably more likely to occur after playing certain games or using D3D9 in some way, not sure. I recall one or two times crashing the OS (win32k.sys) when fiddling with Actual Window Manager (a must have!).

Very interesting interchange of information, a couple of contributions.

SansPlomb95 wrote on 2025-04-02, 09:22:

Auzen really went all-in when it comes to filtering each and every outputs for sure with those obnoxious green capacitors. Still sad Creative didn't consider making a similar form factor for their Titanium product line.

Well you can use a X-Fi Xtreme Gamer without the bracket, it's what I'm currently doing on my SFF build.

shevalier wrote on 2025-04-02, 17:07:

Even less necessary than Crystalizer.

Crystalizer at 0% (yes it doesn't mean it's inactive) makes a quick and lovely V-shaped equalization, at least for me.

Dimos wrote on 2025-04-04, 18:11:

As far as Daniel k.'s drivers are concerned i think (from what i 've gathered online from various sources) that they are the best option for both the Audigy and the X-fi cards.

I had a lot of problems with latest Daniel K drivers on XP with my PCI Xtreme Gamer, standard drivers solved them, so I suggest testing both before settling with one.

Regarding the EAX/CMSS 3D appreciation, I'm playing through the original Unreal. I played it once back in the day (probably on a Banshee and a 233MMX, so not the most fluid thing) and was so fed up with the labyrinths in some levels I didn't want to play it ever again. But I discovered I probably had my CRT set too dark (or gamma too low), as I remember barely seeing anything on dark levels, and the same happened to me with Quake. Now with that corrected, 1600x1200 75Hz smooth v-sync on my CRT, and the CMSS-3D pumping trough my AudioTechnica headphones, plus being a more patient gamer, I'm enjoying every bit of it. And regarding 3D sound, I had one of those wow moments: at the beginning of Mission 8 (Dark Arena) you fall to a pool, and when you get out and reach a door, a Skaarj also drops to the pool and attacks you from behind; the sound positioning was so good that I could exactly know where the enemy was and could turn around and defend me; without it I'd start receiving hits without knowing where they came from.

mgtroyas wrote on 2025-04-15, 09:18:

And regarding 3D sound, I had one of those wow moments: at the beginning of Mission 8 (Dark Arena) you fall to a pool, and when you get out and reach a door, a Skaarj also drops to the pool and attacks you from behind; the sound positioning was so good that I could exactly know where the enemy was and could turn around and defend me; without it I'd start receiving hits without knowing where they came from.

Nice! 😀 Such immersive moments are often fondly remembered long after finishing the game.

I think we lost something when positional audio became less of a priority for developers, and all their attention shifted towards shiny graphics. To me, a well designed soundstage is equally as important for providing an interesting gaming experience.

Fun fact: Unreal was the very first game which implemented EAX, according to Creative's old milestones page.

I actually went and bought an Audigy Rx. Wow, never seen that many driver services for one device. The card definitely feels retro, it's not a standard HD Audio (or rather UAA) compliant card (so needs specific drivers for even basics to work), before installing drivers, it appears as (unknown) Multimedia Audio Controller, at least on Windows 11. Reminds of Windows 9x era when installing sound drivers on Windows was more of a norm.

The box is smaller and more humble than the one Sound BlasterX AE-5 Plus is packaged in. Quick start guide doesn't even mention HD Audio connector for front audio ports on computer case, but it's there. I probably didn't take a good look at the board...when I was looking at card with alsamixer on Linux, I noticed "Audigy CD". I remember in the old days a CD-ROM drive could be connected to the sound card - analog connection for CD music, maybe this is it?

Newer Windows can pull the drivers from Windows Update, no software in this case though (unless maybe that checkbox for installing devices apps has an effect, though I suspect this is meant for more modern devices, at least I remember it can pull the UWP app for HP printers). At later point, I setup the card's software from scratch going with Daniel_K's drivers.

Basic sound, ignoring volume differences, I can't say I hear any difference between VIA onboard and the Sound BlasterX AE-5 and Audigy Rx. The only sure thing seems to be that the onboard is a bit quieter. And I'm using Beyerdynamic MMX 330 Pro headphones, not exactly cheap, most others would have bells and whistles in this price range. But if speakers are as good as they say...

But when it comes to EAX, the sound signature is quite distinct from software solutions I tried. Creative's own solutions, both the one in ALchemy's dsound.dll and the one in Sens_oal.dll, they both have exaggerated reverb. I was also surprised hearing the hand gun in DOOM III (using Trent Reznor's weapon sound pack as default sounds are lame), it actually sounded powerful, both Sens_oal.dll and soft_oal.dll make it sound muffled. Shotgun is a bit weird in any case and didn't get around to loading saves where I'm at the later stage having better weapons.

CMSS also sounds different to other HRTF solutions. I'm leaning towards it sounding a bit more natural, maybe, but when it comes to "natural", I'd say this is definitely more pronounced with EAX.

On my Windows XP x64, hardware DirectSound just refuses to work, even with the silly workaround of limiting RAM. I only tried Daniel_K drivers so far. Posted in the other thread, but there were only crickets. OpenAL is fine. Who knows if different drivers would be needed or more or less updated XP x64 or maybe something else is broken on my end. Or maybe it wouldn't work regardless. For the record, so far, I didn't have any strange specific problems with XP x64, it was as good as x86 version, if not better. And I guess I'm too young to miss 16-bit stuff.

I have something else on my mind, but that would be it for now.

UCyborg wrote on 2025-04-15, 11:55:

On my Windows XP x64, hardware DirectSound just refuses to work, even with the silly workaround of limiting RAM.

I never used WinXP x64 myself, but I think it's safe to say that most games released up to 2007 can't utilize more than 4 GB RAM. So you might consider trying the regular WinXP 32-bit version instead.

You definitively want to have working DirectSound, as the vast majority of WinXP games use that. Of course, EAX support depends on DirectSound, unless the game uses OpenAL instead.

I have it cause I find it more interesting than plain XP x86, which has been beaten to death. And it runs Wolfenstein: The New Order and the modern backports of Chromium with shitload of tabs.

I can't find it ATM, but I found a thread on another forum where someone was hacking Xi-Fi drivers way back in 2007 to get DirectSound working properly on XP x64. 2007! XP x64 was released in 2005. Athlon 64 in 2003. Therefore, excuses will not be tolerated. 😜

UCyborg wrote on 2025-04-15, 12:38:

XP x64 was released in 2005. Athlon 64 in 2003.

Sure, but it was based on Windows Server 2003, and I think it was mostly intended as a workstation counterpart to that OS. I doubt many people used it for gaming back in the day, so games and EAX itself probably didn't receive as much testing in that environment.

That said, if you do manage to get it working, be sure to share your findings. Good luck!

True, TBH back then I only saw it mentioned in the book about Windows XP, said 64-bit was meant for scientific uses or something along those lines. But that was then and that driver has 2022 timestamp.

er_id=42128]

UCyborg wrote on 2025-04-15, 11:55:

On my Windows XP x64, hardware DirectSound just refuses to work, even with the silly workaround of limiting RAM.

I never used WinXP x64 myself, but I think it's safe to say that most games released up to 2007 can't utilize more than 4 GB RAM. So you might consider trying the regular WinXP 32-bit version instead.

You definitively want to have working DirectSound, as most WinXP games use that. Of course, EAX is built on top of DirectSound, unless the game uses OpenAL instead.
[/quote]

32bit Windows XP is more compatible with older games, usually stick with 32bit, but i have used x64, drivers for it are ailable, but less in quantity.

This is the thread that I found: https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/f-e-a-r-eax … -xp-x64.225449/

Link is long dead, but it'd be nice to have original and modded drivers for comparison. One thing to note, Daniel K. mentions ALchemy as a workaround. I doubt ALchemy ever worked on XP. And both official and Daniel K's "forget" to install 64-bit ct_oal.dll on Win11. I didn't check XP x64 yet.

Could be also that Audigy's drivers are more messed up than X-Fi's.

Wait, F.E.A.R. implemented EAX via DirectSound interface despite the upcoming Vista release? That's insane 😀

ott wrote on 2025-04-17, 15:18:

Wait, F.E.A.R. implemented EAX via DirectSound interface despite the upcoming Vista release? That's insane 😀

It may have been too late in the development cycle to switch.

The game is officially supported by ALchemy, so there's that at least.

So DOOM 3 apparently got EAX only because Creative patented shadowing technique that was used in id Tech 4 that John C. discovered independently. A sort of you can freely use this algorithm if you also implement EAX.

I noticed Daniel K.'s Audigy's support pack uses kernel drivers that date back to 2006, at least for XP. The driver files that Creative's site offers when you choose XP x64 date 2015. I'll try those on XP x64 and see if there's any difference in DirectSound3D support. If not, I'll put experimenting with XP on hold for the time being. Really, really not in a mood for setting up whole new OS install.

I found posts when people were complaining about their drivers even in 2011, 2 years past Windows 7 release, trouble with 4 GB+ of RAM, some were using onboard for microphone because Creative crapped out when it came to using microphone. My onboard VIA always worked flawlessly, either with their own driver on XP x64 (because nothing else works on that OS) or MS driver on NT 6.x+ systems (because VIA driver doesn't add anything of value, at least for my basic use).

I tried Audigy Rx briefly on Linux with kernel dating back to 2020, for some reason, you have to choose Digital SPDIF to get the sound out of rear analog front/headphone port. Analog selection works for the front panel port though.

badmojo wrote on 2025-04-05, 00:53:

At the moment I'm leaning towards the Rx having a slightly richer sound, and of course it's brand new as opposed to second hand and 15 years old. But again, this could just be my brain tricking me into preferring the thing that I most recently spent money on 😁

Both are great options. I'm using Daniel_K's drivers on Windows 10 for what it's worth.

I wonder if age could be a factor.

I skipped installing DTS thingy on Win11, supposedly tied to a license and since I really only use analog headphones, won't be useful. I'm curious which of the bundled software with Audigy Rx (Daniel K's version) launch for you on Win10. Only things that do launch for me are that MIDI program, systray app for pitch tweaking and Audigy Control Panel.

Not sure if non-working programs really add anything beyond what's already available in Audigy Control Panel.

One thing that doesn't seem to work well...if you activate CMSS2, that activates sound channels beyond stereo for headphones, you can test in Windows' sound settings when you choose surround configuration, you'll hear sound from the other channels if you make the test in a wizard for configuring type of sound setup. The sound coming from other channels has considerably lower volume. So this probably doesn't work well for games using their own mixing and outputting surround sound. I had that kind of setup with CS:GO years ago and it seemed OK with Sound Blaster X-Fi MB3 (software-based sound card), though I read that game got its own HRTF later with updates.

CMSS1 seems OK with games using OpenAL or DirectSound->OpenAL (ALchemy). Half-Life 1 (old version with DirectSound based EAX) sounds kinda weird underwater, not sure if that's just how it is with low quality assets. Maybe they went overboard with intensity.

UCyborg wrote on 2025-04-18, 08:00:

So DOOM 3 apparently got EAX only because Creative patented shadowing technique that was used in id Tech 4 that John C. discovered independently. A sort of you can freely use this algorithm if you also implement EAX.

Source on this? I knew that Doom 3's EAX support was added in patch 1.3 due to a collaboration between Creative and id Software. But this is the first time I heard about the patent that you mentioned.

UCyborg wrote on 2025-04-18, 08:00:

I found posts when people were complaining about their drivers even in 2011, 2 years past Windows 7 release, trouble with 4 GB+ of RAM, some were using onboard for microphone because Creative crapped out when it came to using microphone.

For what it's worth, I've been using my X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro (SB0886) on Win7 with 16 GB RAM for five years without any issues. And this is with Creative's stock drivers from 2010. I never used the microphone though, but Line In and SPDIF In both work fine. I didn't have any problems under WinXP 32-bit either, but that OS only sees 4 GB RAM of course.

About those posts with driver troubles, I really should note down where I found them. Then I write about it here later going from my memory when there's a risk of getting some details wrong... I did manage to make the driver crap out on Win11 23H2 once earlier this week and sound stopped being output. It happened while messing with switches in Audigy Control Panel.

About DOOM 3: John Carmack: “This sucks.”

UCyborg wrote on 2025-04-18, 08:53:

About DOOM 3: John Carmack: “This sucks.”

Interesting read.

Not entirely unexpected from Creative, given that how they (sadly) destroyed Aureal back in the day. They made some pretty controversial business decisions during the '90s and 2000s.

UCyborg wrote on 2025-04-18, 08:00:

I'm curious which of the bundled software with Audigy Rx (Daniel K's version) launch for you on Win10. Only things that do launch for me are that MIDI program, systray app for pitch tweaking and Audigy Control Panel.

I think I only used the Audigy Control Panel. I don't have the card installed anymore so can't test further I'm sorry.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-04-18, 09:04:

Not entirely unexpected from Creative, given that how they (sadly) destroyed Aureal back in the day.

This is Creative's dark side that is engaged in patent trolling. Creative sued just about everyone in the 2000s, including Apple. It's funny that Microsoft avoided this fate by killing EAX.

Nowadays, Creative is STILL farming audio patents.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-04-18, 09:04:

They made some pretty controversial business decisions during the '90s and 2000s.

By the time Windows 2000/XP came out, Creative had nothing worthwhile on the PСI bus.
In 1998, Creative bought Ensoniq Corp and released the Sound Blaster PCI based on ES137x chips.
Success? Partial.

Because the E-MU did not have time to be finished E-MU 10kx chip, including to compete with Aureal.
In 1997, Areal already had the Vortex 1 chip.
Was the decision to buy E-MU in 1993 a good one - oh yes.
Creative lived on this legacy for the next 20 years.

Acquiring their main competitor, Aureal Semiconductor.
A great decision, the best thing Creative has ever done.

From a commercial standpoint, Creative Tech was doing everything perfectly and correctly.
Until it fell out with Microsoft 😀

The end of Creative will be predictable, but simply stretched out over time.
Although, where are all these internal sound card manufacturers though?
turtle beach, Auzen, ESI, AUDIOTRAK, Asus audio, M-audio
And Creative is still alive

Well, who still buys sound cards? 😜 Creative's a strange company to say at least...

I tried official drivers for the Audigy Rx on XP x64, still DirectSound remains non-accelerated while OpenAL works.