dr_st wrote on 2025-05-16, 07:31:

I think you're onto something here. The GTA Trilogy (III,VC,SA) follows a principle of opening up the game world for you gradually. The more of it is open, the more freedom you have, which comes with access to nicer vehicles, missions, items. So generally, later sections of the game are more enjoyable.

I think this would apply on some level to any open world game with RPG-style elements - as your character gets ramped up, the game becomes both easier and richer (since the game can throw more at you).

I think the open worlds are about as good where ever you are, maybe its the game and the gameplay preferences that are bigger factors.

even replaying gta 3 i prefer portland and some of the early missions, there is something about there being only one sports car (that banshee in the car lot) and being involved in fairly small time crime that appeals. Still, i like all of the game.

In oblivious and fallout 3 I liked the early gameplay better, only slightly better though. I think its the way everything matters more, finding a dropped weapon makes a difference and meeting new NPCs opens new elements

Cyberdyne wrote on 2025-05-15, 17:22:

Most late 80s and 90s DOS shareware games usually put the best levels in the first episode. They usually just dangle few new monsters or weapons to your face.

Yes, and it worked in that there was a desire to know more - but like the above examples sometimes less is more

Zup wrote on 2025-05-15, 04:45:

R-Type for the ZX Spectrum is a good example.

That was released without the final level, instead level 7 is repeated twice.

This was a mistake by the guy who did the copy protection IIRC

It's incredible that nobody bothered to test it before sending it for duplication.

Errius wrote on 2025-05-16, 11:14:

That was released without the final level, instead level 7 is repeated twice. […]
Show full quote

Zup wrote on 2025-05-15, 04:45:

R-Type for the ZX Spectrum is a good example.

That was released without the final level, instead level 7 is repeated twice.

This was a mistake by the guy who did the copy protection IIRC

It's incredible that nobody bothered to test it before sending it for duplication.

Reminds me of that time I was playing a bootleg copy of "Tokkyuu Shirei Solbrain" which only had Area A and Area F, the latter repeating forever.

Errius wrote on 2025-05-16, 11:14:

That was released without the final level, instead level 7 is repeated twice.

This was a mistake by the guy who did the copy protection IIRC

It's incredible that nobody bothered to test it before sending it for duplication.

dr_st wrote on 2025-05-16, 12:24:

Reminds me of that time I was playing a bootleg copy of "Tokkyuu Shirei Solbrain" which only had Area A and Area F, the latter repeating forever.

thing like this must have happened a few times, the pressure to release a game and inability to patch it would have seen gams pass an insufficient QA process. In many cases i'd guess it remained outside of the reach of most players too, being in later levels

It's a normal process, especially from bigger companies. They start off with fresh ideas and enthusiasm, and during the course of development, with corporate pressured deadlines, and even without deadlines, the developers loose some steam in designing new levels. Most of the games' later levels are like "oh the game is too short, let's add some more levels and areas" sort of feeling.

I have played many demos and shareware titles and out of feeling wanting more, I bought some of the full versions, but yeah, later levels feel....tired.

Even the highly regarded System Shock 2, in the beginning, everything was very good, but towards the end, I didn't like the moving-in-an-intestine feeling.

Shareware Tyrian was loads of fun. I loved the system of gradually accumulating power ups for your ship. But as you reach the end of Shareware, it feels like the game has run it's course.

I haven't actually played the Registered levels, but I've seen them on video. It looked to me like the powerup system gets increasingly out of hand. Excessive firepower on both sides sends the gameplay off the rails.

Trespasser suffers from this, although that was a game that was frought with development issues.

The early and mid-game levels are pretty interesting and fun, but after you the InGen lab, it's all downhill from there... although technically "uphill". Many of the early levels invite exploration, but with the final three, which involve ascending to the summit of the island, it pretty much becomes all about getting from point A to B without getting eating by a T-rex and the hordes of raptors that populate the levels.

In general yes - as all creative efforts suffer a similar fate of ebb & flow, initial peaks & drawn out valleys.
One of the main reasons why earlier content(could be levels, music, misc designs) is often better is that it's usually

-peak novelty / eager attitude / carefree
-creations are generally smaller in scale
-laser focus as one's testing the waters
-naivety leading to refreshing concepts which die off as expertise / expectations grow
-stable environment(good funding, no marketing creatures breathing down your neck)
-common effort in teams(co-workers are not competitors but co-creators which act as a flexible quality control unit)

the only issue in earlier work can be a lack of skills regarding tools / general technique.

Concerning Doom, it's interesting to note that Romero was proficient in his craft even early on which shows his raw, thick talent(add to that the privileged spot of being on eye level with John Carmack and you got yourself one self asserted "content creator"). These unique circumstances enabled "Alfonso" to build the most lovely/unique/cohesive Doom map set of all time - the legendary Episode 1. An "enigma" that would paint all later episodes in a bit of a mundane light.
In general the decay of map quality in Doom/II's case seemed to be caused by negligence, ego, infighting and lack of focus.

Quake on the other hand is not that "Episode 1-heavy" for me as it features a very chaotic style that also "renders" later episodes quite interesting. The base style in Quake is not of the same outstanding caliber as in Doom though - it's the underlying technology that changed a lot of what was perceived as exciting and thus it's the Deathmatch maps and dynamics that make Quake ultimately a world class title.

With Duke3D I also felt a steep decline when going beyond Episode 1 but I think it's for different reasons not related to the general quality of the maps. The space theme is quite wonky(besides "Dark Side") and Episode 3 was not able to hop onto Episode 1's momentum... things started to feel disconnected, rehashed and stale as the strongest themes seemed already taken. Nonetheless, Blum and Grey delivered outstanding work.

In contrast Blood, to me at least, does not suffer such a "depressing" fate. Even with the official extensions included it's a truly fantastic game with very, very few stinkers. I played through it in coop multiple times and it was a blast to behold with a unique atmosphere.

shamino wrote on 2025-05-30, 11:47:

Shareware Tyrian was loads of fun. I loved the system of gradually accumulating power ups for your ship. But as you reach the end of Shareware, it feels like the game has run it's course.

I haven't actually played the Registered levels, but I've seen them on video. It looked to me like the powerup system gets increasingly out of hand. Excessive firepower on both sides sends the gameplay off the rails.

that's a feature of later levels in many games that can detract from the fun to me - becoming overpowered against overpowered enemies. In shooters as above and in RPG/Adventure its where everyone knows you and is after you and you have the maxxed weapons and the maps are "narrower" as you close in on final boss(es)

amadeus777999 wrote on 2025-05-30, 15:50:

With Duke3D I also felt a steep decline when going beyond Episode 1 but I think it's for different reasons not related to the general quality of the maps. The space theme is quite wonky(besides "Dark Side") and Episode 3 was not able to hop onto Episode 1's momentum... things started to feel disconnected, rehashed and stale as the strongest themes seemed already taken. Nonetheless, Blum and Grey delivered outstanding work.

In contrast Blood, to me at least, does not suffer such a "depressing" fate. Even with the official extensions included it's a truly fantastic game with very, very few stinkers. I played through it in coop multiple times and it was a blast to behold with a unique atmosphere.

great contrast - yes Blood is an exception, stayed fresh pretty much throughout. Not to knock Duke3d, i liked it all, but episode 1 is special in ways the other two are not somehow