Matchstick wrote on 2025-05-28, 05:55:

DarthSun wrote on 2025-05-22, 15:56:

BinaryDemon wrote on 2025-05-22, 14:47:

Soooo much wasted ram and cpu cores!

Yes, but it's also on RyZen, there's even more waste 😀

Um, FX8320 is not Ryzen.
Was the generation before.

If you look through the screen shots it's clear the Ryzen configuration is an upgrade from the original FX build.

Matchstick wrote on 2025-05-28, 05:55:

DarthSun wrote on 2025-05-22, 15:56:

BinaryDemon wrote on 2025-05-22, 14:47:

Soooo much wasted ram and cpu cores!

Yes, but it's also on RyZen, there's even more waste 😀

Um, FX8320 is not Ryzen.
Was the generation before.

Of course, it's a very different world. FX was a downgrade for AMD. Zen was heavily reworked. Of course, FX is not worth selling, it's good for a hobby machine, and even Win11 runs on it.
I just wrote as an example that Win98 can be installed on Zen.
Although I'm installing a modern Zen laptop now, it no longer has CSM, only stuff prepared for UEFI is willing to work on it.

DarthSun wrote on 2025-05-22, 15:56:

Of course, it's a very different world. FX was a downgrade for AMD. Zen was heavily reworked. Of course, FX is not worth selling, it's good for a hobby machine, and even Win11 runs on it.
I just wrote as an example that Win98 can be installed on Zen.
Although I'm installing a modern Zen laptop now, it no longer has CSM, only stuff prepared for UEFI is willing to work on it.

Hmm, that seems be a limitation of that laptop.

My 5600x3d (Zen3) running on a b550i (AM4) has CSM still (Disabled of course).

Also note even as type this, I am on my main PC which is a FX5830 win7 box, which I have been running since 2013, so I am quite familiar with the platforms.

Dothan Burger wrote on 2025-05-28, 01:00:

Can you run Sandra CPU and memory Benchmarks in 98 so I can compare directly? […]
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DarthSun wrote on 2025-05-27, 02:23:

Under Win98 you don't need just the PCIe to PCI converter and then SBLive's own installer. Of course, installing Win98 on a mode […]
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Dothan Burger wrote on 2025-05-26, 23:43:

Can you go over the details of the SB emulation, how you got it to work with the AMD chipsets you used? I tried on a 785G and some others like a55 and it didn't work.

Under Win98 you don't need just the PCIe to PCI converter and then SBLive's own installer. Of course, installing Win98 on a modern machine is usually not easy, and there may be different problems depending on the machine.

XP: with the modded installer it's pretty problem-free - it recognizes everything on RyZen too, I can't write down the installer's name because I linked it once, but the moderator deleted it.

The attachment 225621_bwz9vmhmhyfchyzo_3800x_nxp_231108.jpg is no longer available

DOS: using SBEmu, VSBHDA, VSBHDASF. Supports SBLive, Audigy and motherboard sound cards.

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How to use them can be found here on Vogons, in the appropriate topics.
A modern machine is quite fast under DOS:

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But it's not a problem, because you can slow it down to XT, 286,486, Pentium...etc, with the CPUSpd program.

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Can you run Sandra CPU and memory Benchmarks in 98 so I can compare directly?

I'd also love to see you Q3A timedemo and Phils Doom benchmark.

My i7 system is displaying a strange reduction in Doom performance from a core2 duo build with near identical specs. Everything 3d is faster is faster on the i7 though

I was still in debt with this. First the Win98 results.
R3800X+QFX4500(NV7800GTX), CPU @4GHz fixed, GPU base clock.
Sandra :

Q3,
Set :

Test :

2005/02 :

After these, it can be stated that the ATI Radeon X850 XT Platinum Edition is really the fastest video card on the market, considering the average. Now let's see how the world's most expensive home video cards (Radeon X800 Pro/XL/XT; X850 XT PE; GeForce 6800 GT/Ultra) compare to each other.

On the Radeon front, the most powerful at the time was the X850 XT PE PCIe, this is the last one that still has a Radeon Win98 driver, I still need it for my madness machines. Of course, it doesn't matter much, since this card is only slightly faster than the 6800 Ultra, and the latter is swallowed by the 7800/900GTX. Only the fastest Radeon from the Win98 point of view is viable in one of my madness machines.

DarthSun wrote on 2025-06-28, 07:58:

2005/02 : After these, it can be stated that the ATI Radeon X850 XT Platinum Edition is really the fastest video card on the ma […]
Show full quote

2005/02 :

After these, it can be stated that the ATI Radeon X850 XT Platinum Edition is really the fastest video card on the market, considering the average. Now let's see how the world's most expensive home video cards (Radeon X800 Pro/XL/XT; X850 XT PE; GeForce 6800 GT/Ultra) compare to each other.

On the Radeon front, the most powerful at the time was the X850 XT PE PCIe, this is the last one that still has a Radeon Win98 driver, I still need it for my madness machines. Of course, it doesn't matter much, since this card is only slightly faster than the 6800 Ultra, and the latter is swallowed by the 7800/900GTX. Only the fastest Radeon from the Win98 point of view is viable in one of my madness machines.

The Radeon X850 would probably beat that Q3A score. They're seriously fast in 98 with great VGA out image quality, IMHO better than the geforce 6000/7000. I don't like how they take 2 IRQs, the control panel isn't my favorite and the cards are ridiculously dense and heavy.

Dothan Burger wrote on 2025-06-28, 15:04:

DarthSun wrote on 2025-06-28, 07:58:

2005/02 : After these, it can be stated that the ATI Radeon X850 XT Platinum Edition is really the fastest video card on the ma […]
Show full quote

2005/02 :

After these, it can be stated that the ATI Radeon X850 XT Platinum Edition is really the fastest video card on the market, considering the average. Now let's see how the world's most expensive home video cards (Radeon X800 Pro/XL/XT; X850 XT PE; GeForce 6800 GT/Ultra) compare to each other.

On the Radeon front, the most powerful at the time was the X850 XT PE PCIe, this is the last one that still has a Radeon Win98 driver, I still need it for my madness machines. Of course, it doesn't matter much, since this card is only slightly faster than the 6800 Ultra, and the latter is swallowed by the 7800/900GTX. Only the fastest Radeon from the Win98 point of view is viable in one of my madness machines.

The Radeon X850 would probably beat that Q3A score. They're seriously fast in 98 with great VGA out image quality, IMHO better than the geforce 6000/7000. I don't like how they take 2 IRQs, the control panel isn't my favorite and the cards are ridiculously dense and heavy.

Quake 3: I don't know, I don't have such a card. If I do, I'll try it.
But it's certain that the 7900GTX is the best in the retro test/Win98. The X850XT PE can't win in this category either.
Everywhere you look you see that the 7900GTX is faster.
I currently hold the world record in the Win98/3DMark01 category with such a card:

The card itself is much nicer, better, and its cooling is more efficient than the X850XT PE.

Run it on X850XT PE under 3DM01/Win98 and Quake 3 with the settings in my previous post, I'm sure it will be slower.

And the two Quadro FX4500(7800GTX) also came with it, with a similar design :

Even these are faster than the X850XT PE.

DarthSun wrote on 2025-06-28, 16:09:

And the two Quadro FX4500(7800GTX) also came with it, with a similar design :

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Even these are faster than the X850XT PE.

7800 and 7900s are my preference too, but I've seen vertex shader benchmarks showing the X850 dominating everything else in 98. With your 3dmark2001 score it seems like the Q3A score is a little low.

Dothan Burger wrote on 2025-06-28, 17:24:

DarthSun wrote on 2025-06-28, 16:09:

And the two Quadro FX4500(7800GTX) also came with it, with a similar design :

The attachment 225621_h2xlmykcvfznhpo3_1quadroduofront.jpg is no longer available

Even these are faster than the X850XT PE.

7800 and 7900s are my preference too, but I've seen vertex shader benchmarks showing the X850 dominating everything else in 98. With your 3dmark2001 score it seems like the Q3A score is a little low.

Of course, the Quake3 result seems low. CPU is a flat 4GHz, and video is in the 7800GTX/4xPCIe band.
3DM01 : CPU @4650MHz, video : 7900GTX/16xPCIe.
Currently the 7800GTX is running in it, as a secondary Win98 card for daily use. The main card is in the PCIe x16 slot (GTX1060).
I ran the tests with a restrained machine set for the day, only overclocking to the max when collecting points.

I will also test it under DOS - Doom. And also on the FX8320.