VOGONS


First post, by wbahnassi

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Hi guys, looking for a suggestion on what could be wrong in this case. I'm trying to repair this motherboard:
https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/qdi-v4s471-g

Initial symptoms: POST card shows just two dashes -- and the Reset signal never turned off. Investigated a bit and found the main chipset had some floating pins. After repairing them, the reset signal now properly goes off after a second of powering on the mobo.

The POST card is still not showing any numbers. Probed the CPU pins and they look fine. CPU has 5V+ VCC, Reset responds correctly to the reset jumper (high then low), HOLD pin is low, and clock is good (25MHz). It starts to warm up upon power on. I also tried a different 486 CPU, and same thing.
Checking the ISA slots, I found that Data1-Data8 are all stuck high, and all address lines are stuck low with no activity.

I checked the transceivers, and they're fully connected to the ISA slots from one side, and to the main chipset from the other side. The chipset side of the transceivers isn't receiving any signal when turning on the MB, so no wonder I don't see anything on the ISA lines.

Is this a case of a dead chipset? Or is there something else that could hinder these lines from activity?

Cheers!

Turbo XT 12MHz, 8-bit VGA, Dual 360K drives
Intel 386 DX-33, Speedstar 24X, SB 1.5, 1x CD
Intel 486 DX2-66, CL5428 VLB, SBPro 2, 2x CD
Intel Pentium 90, Matrox Millenium 2, SB16, 4x CD
HP Z400, Xeon 3.46GHz, YMF-744, Voodoo3, RTX2080Ti

Reply 1 of 14, by BitWrangler

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It is not one of those awkward buggers that need the keylock switch jumpered to boot is it?

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 2 of 14, by wbahnassi

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BitWrangler wrote on 2026-01-15, 18:59:

It is not one of those awkward buggers that need the keylock switch jumpered to boot is it?

Eh, never came across that behavior before. But I just tried shorting pins 4-5 on the keylock jumper and it didn't make any difference.

Turbo XT 12MHz, 8-bit VGA, Dual 360K drives
Intel 386 DX-33, Speedstar 24X, SB 1.5, 1x CD
Intel 486 DX2-66, CL5428 VLB, SBPro 2, 2x CD
Intel Pentium 90, Matrox Millenium 2, SB16, 4x CD
HP Z400, Xeon 3.46GHz, YMF-744, Voodoo3, RTX2080Ti

Reply 3 of 14, by BitWrangler

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They are rare enough to catch you out once every few years. All three I've come across personally have been AMIBIOS boards, not sure if that's a coincidence or not.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 4 of 14, by wbahnassi

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Found the main chipset's data sheet here:
https://theretroweb.com/chips/2549

I've traced all the clocks (in and out) and they are all good. Chipset receives clock and divides it as needed. CPU reset and power good pins are all good as well. I think the chipset might be good afterall.

Turbo XT 12MHz, 8-bit VGA, Dual 360K drives
Intel 386 DX-33, Speedstar 24X, SB 1.5, 1x CD
Intel 486 DX2-66, CL5428 VLB, SBPro 2, 2x CD
Intel Pentium 90, Matrox Millenium 2, SB16, 4x CD
HP Z400, Xeon 3.46GHz, YMF-744, Voodoo3, RTX2080Ti

Reply 5 of 14, by snufkin

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I think some boards don't start without a battery. Looks like there's a 4 pin header just below J39 near the 8 bit ISA slot that might be an external battery header.

Reply 6 of 14, by Susanin79

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I'd read the BIOS and compare it with the one from the retroweb, may be the BIOS is corrupted

Reply 7 of 14, by MikeSG

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RAM, cache, BIOS oxidised pins can cause no activity also. Isopropyl alcohol & a toothbrush on RAM slots, cache and BIOS can be reseated. Reseat jumpers.

Reply 8 of 14, by wbahnassi

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So far did the following:

  • Attached an external battery
  • Jumpered the keylock
  • Dumped the BIOS, and tried other BIOSes from TRW for the same board (thus BIOS reseated). My BIOS is not like anyone from TRW. Attaching dump here
  • Removed cache chips completely
  • Tested the CPU and RAM chips on another 486 board and they worked flawlesly
  • Tested without the POST card, still no difference

One little detail (might be irrelevant).. whenever I turn on/off the board, the PC speaker makes a single click like one of those RAM test clicks. So there is a pulse going to the speaker at power on/off.

Turbo XT 12MHz, 8-bit VGA, Dual 360K drives
Intel 386 DX-33, Speedstar 24X, SB 1.5, 1x CD
Intel 486 DX2-66, CL5428 VLB, SBPro 2, 2x CD
Intel Pentium 90, Matrox Millenium 2, SB16, 4x CD
HP Z400, Xeon 3.46GHz, YMF-744, Voodoo3, RTX2080Ti

Reply 9 of 14, by PC@LIVE

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Hello, I suggest you do some tests, first of all, you should be sure that all the pins of the socket (3?), are in place, that is, try the continuity from top to bottom, this could exclude that there is a problem with the socket, for convenience you can if you have one, use an interposer.
If instead you want to do without this control, you could try spraying a (professional) contact deoxidant on the CPU and then insert and remove it a few times, so that the socket pins also come into contact with it.
Last attempt, insert a minimum thickness under the CPU and close the lever, in this way you will get a contact in a different place (maybe better), then you can try to insert the CPU and close several times, if the problem is there, after a certain number of insertions, you will start to see one or more codes, or even a video BIOS screen.
I wish you good luck 🍀

AMD 286-16 287-10 4MB
AMD 386SX-33 4MB
AMD 386DX-40 Intel 387 8MB
Cyrix 486DLC-40 IIT387-40 8MB
486DX2-66 +many others
P60 48MB
iDX4-100 32MB
AMD 5X86-133 16MB VLB CL5429 2MB
AMD K62+ 550 SOYO 5EMA+ +many others
AST Pentium Pro 200 MHz L2 256KB

Reply 10 of 14, by wbahnassi

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Thanks for the suggestions. At this point I'm open to try everything.

So I traced the socket 3's pins from the upper side and ensured that they all connect cleanly with the opposite solder points on the motherboard's back. All checked fine. I used a dupont wire that I attached to the multimeter from one end, and its other end goes into each of the socket's pins. On the opposite side of the board, the other multimeter probe is touching the same pin's solder joint. Each pin showed 0-Ohm resistance with its matching pin from the opposite side.

Next, I powered the board with the CPU inserted, and started probing the CPU pins from the socket's solder points on the back of the board.

All readings match what I see on the ISA lines. Most address lines are at 5V, except here I see A13 was at 1.76V (?!)..
The reset signal is low, so the CPU should be going. Its input clock is 25MHz...

I really don't know why the CPU is halted like that... And that floating voltage 1.76 on A13 doesn't make any sense to me...

Turbo XT 12MHz, 8-bit VGA, Dual 360K drives
Intel 386 DX-33, Speedstar 24X, SB 1.5, 1x CD
Intel 486 DX2-66, CL5428 VLB, SBPro 2, 2x CD
Intel Pentium 90, Matrox Millenium 2, SB16, 4x CD
HP Z400, Xeon 3.46GHz, YMF-744, Voodoo3, RTX2080Ti

Reply 11 of 14, by myne

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Dud decoupling cap?

I built:
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Reply 12 of 14, by mkarcher

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I try you suggest to keep chasing the basics. You already started well by testing the usual stuff (operating voltage, clock, reset). Then, you observed that you don't observe cycles on the ISA bus. You also observed that this likely is not the root cause of the current issue, because you also don't observe cycles on the local bus (aka frontside bus or processor bus). Do you have equipment to check whether you get absolutely no cycles on the local bus or maybe a single cycle after reset? Typically, you would check stuff like that using an oscilloscope in "normal" (see footnote 1) or "single-shot" triggering mode. You can observe whether the 486 triggers a bus cycle by looking at /ADS. The signal is pulled low for a single clock if a cycle starts. We expect some bus cycles to fetch BIOS instructions after the internal reset of the 486 is complete. This is a fully internal operation and does not require a working mainboard, just a working processor. As I understand it, your processors can be treated as "known good", so if you don't see an /ADS response to reset (if an internal selft test is requested, it might take a human perceptable delay (more than 20ms) between releaing reset and getting the first /ADS pulse), you need to troubleshoot why the 486 processor is prevented from starting the BIOS fetch. The most likely reason for not starting the BIOS fetch is that the 486 doesn't know its OK to access the bus. So check HOLD, AHOLD, /BOFF pins. Note that AHOLD and HOLD are active high, so you need HOLD=low, AHOLD=low, /BOFF=high for the 486 to have full bus ownership.

Your observation regarding A13 is also interesting. There are multiple ways why A13 might end up at 1.76V as measured by a multimeter: The pin might be floating, there might be a bus conflict with one party driving it high and another party driving it low, or it might acutally be toggling between high and low. For the moment, I'm going to ignore the "toggling" reason (if your meter has a low-voltage AC range, you might want to use that to check for an AC component at that location). As the local bus is a bus, it is a valid state of that bus if a line is not driven by any participant on the bus. There is no hard requirement that every address line has a pull-up resistor, so seeing 1.76V on A13 by itself is not necessarily a hint that something is wrong on this line. On the other hand, I see that your board is equipped with 256K of L2 cache. In that case, the local bus A2..A17 lines (thus including A13!) need to be forwarded to the cache chips. This can either be a direct connection, or there may be buffer chips in between. On your board, the location of U24 and U25 make it likely that those chips, which provide 16 unidirectional buffers, may be used as address buffer. Those chips are 74F244, the "F" notifying a fast chip with a TTL-like input, which behaves like an internal pull-up. If the 74F244 is connected to A13, and you see 1.76V on that line, something is pulling it down. 74F type logic provides enough pull-up action, that a 1K pull-down might not be able to pull lower than 1.76V.

So, my suggestion for continuing is:

  • Verify HOLD, AHOLD, /BOFF while the system is running
  • Probe for connectivity from A13 at the 486 socket to the L2 cache (either some address pin of the cache or some input pin of either 74F244)
  • Probe for shorts between A13 and other signals.

1: If you are an oscilloscope noob, be aware that the triggering mode called "normal" is not the standard operating mode used in the last 40 years. The default triggering mode is "auto", and "normal" is an exception. If you have a really cheap scope (<50$ AliExpress) that does not provide a trigger mode setting at all, it will behave like "auto" triggering, not like "normal" triggering.

Reply 13 of 14, by Chkcpu

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wbahnassi wrote on 2026-01-16, 17:00:
So far did the following: […]
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So far did the following:

  • Attached an external battery
  • Jumpered the keylock
  • Dumped the BIOS, and tried other BIOSes from TRW for the same board (thus BIOS reseated). My BIOS is not like anyone from TRW. Attaching dump here
  • Removed cache chips completely
  • Tested the CPU and RAM chips on another 486 board and they worked flawlesly
  • Tested without the POST card, still no difference

One little detail (might be irrelevant).. whenever I turn on/off the board, the PC speaker makes a single click like one of those RAM test clicks. So there is a pulse going to the speaker at power on/off.

Hi wbahnassi,

Although you already tried other BIOSes, I did a check on your QDI_486.BIN dump.
It is a valid AMI WinBIOS for your board, the version INV 9.0. I’ve run it in an SiS471 emulated machine in 86Box and it works just fine.

The attachment Monitor_1_20260117-113156-147.png is no longer available

So the BIOS itself is not the issue. I hope you will find the culprit.

Cheers, Jan

CPU Identification utility
The Unofficial K6-2+ / K6-III+ page

Reply 14 of 14, by Mov AX, 0xDEAD

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Have similar board (V4S471), a lot of jumpers, recheck again and if possible try run with different CPU vendors