VOGONS


First post, by eeJay

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Hi there.
I've had this combo for a few years: MSI MS-6163 Pro (Intel 440BX), slotket, Tualatin 1400 SL6BY.
The issue is that the CPU runs at 133 MHz FSB, which makes the AGP run at 89 MHz.
I don't have any fast PCI graphics cards, so I have to use AGP.
It works super fast ... until it doesn't. It's unstable.

So I thought I might put this CPU into a motherboard that supports it natively.
QDI Advance 10T-A, VIA VT82C694T.

But the CPU seems to have a physical mod.
There is a wire running between two pins, and some other pins are missing/insulated?

Can I just use the CPU in the QDI motherboard as is?
Or would the mod have to be reverted?

Thank you.

Reply 1 of 18, by zapbuzz

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the mod needs to be reverted

Reply 2 of 18, by shevalier

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Nothing's going to happen, everything will work just fine.
The modified pins are used for their intended purpose only in Mobile Tualatin for SpeedStep.
Desktop motherboards and processors fundamentally do not support these features.
These pins exist purely for uniformity within this processor family.

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Audigy 4 SB0610
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value SB0400
Gigabyte Ga-k8n51gmf, Turion64 ML-30@2.2GHz , Radeon X800GTO PL16, Diamond monster sound MX300

Reply 3 of 18, by eeJay

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OK, thank you.
@shevalier, this leads me to another question:
I have two 1.2GHz Tualatin Celerons - SL68P and SL5Y5 running at 100 MHz FSB.
Can I just put one of them into the slotket on the MSI MS-6163 Pro, will it work without any other modifications?
Except for raising the voltage maybe; the Pentium requires 1.45v while the Celeron requires 1.475v?

BTW, notice the left pad on the slotket?
It smoked one time:)
Probably poor contact from using it upright and the CPU cooler dragging it down.
Still works fine and have been using it horizontally since.

Reply 4 of 18, by shevalier

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Unfortunately, no.
An unmodified CPU won't boot:
There is an extra Reset signal that will prevent the CPU from starting.
"Dynamic Enable" for setting the frequency and voltages.
There is only one single Coppermine Celeron that is fully pin-compatible with Mendocino.
Right after that one, this compatibility was dropped.
As for the Tualatin core — zero chance.

P.S.
Wait, don't put in that Pentium—it's modified in a really strange way.
It looks like all the voltage identification (VID) pins have been removed, which is definitely wrong.
Though looking at schematics on a smartphone is super inconvenient, sorry about that.

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Audigy 4 SB0610
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value SB0400
Gigabyte Ga-k8n51gmf, Turion64 ML-30@2.2GHz , Radeon X800GTO PL16, Diamond monster sound MX300

Reply 5 of 18, by eeJay

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OK, no problem. I'm not in a hurry 😀
If nothing else, I'll use this opportunity to repaste the CPUs.
And put the Pentium back in its slocket and run it at 124MHz FSB or something.
As for the Celerons, SL5Y5 only went to about 1400 MHz. Will try playing around with SL68P on the QDI motherboard, maybe it's a bit better.
Both Celerons are a1 stepping, tho.

Reply 6 of 18, by shevalier

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shevalier wrote on 2026-08-25, 17:48:
P.S. Wait, don't put in that Pentium—it's modified in a really strange way. It looks like all the voltage identification (VID) p […]
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P.S.
Wait, don't put in that Pentium—it's modified in a really strange way.
It looks like all the voltage identification (VID) pins have been removed, which is definitely wrong.
Though looking at schematics on a smartphone is super inconvenient, sorry about that.

Someone overdid it at first, and then got lazy. Confess, was it you? 😀

Your method will only work with a motherboard that has voltage adjustment jumpers.
If it only has 'auto' or 'soft menu', the CPU will get 2V and successfully fry after a while.
But not on the first boot—Tualatins are pretty tough CPUs.

For Celerons, you absolutely must connect pin AN3 'DYN_OE' to Vtt (just like AK4 'VttPWRGD').
Otherwise, it will set the bus to 133MHz, and not every 1200MHz Celeron will boot at that speed.

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Audigy 4 SB0610
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value SB0400
Gigabyte Ga-k8n51gmf, Turion64 ML-30@2.2GHz , Radeon X800GTO PL16, Diamond monster sound MX300

Reply 7 of 18, by shevalier

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eeJay wrote on 2026-08-25, 17:17:

Except for raising the voltage maybe; the Pentium requires 1.45v while the Celeron requires 1.475v?

The key issue is with the 1,475=1.45+0,205V, i.e., the final 25mV.
Previously, this pin was utilized for voltages of 2V and above for Mendocino-core CPUs. If the slotket features jumpers for manual voltage configuration, this is not an issue.

However, VttPWRGooD must have voltage (whereas it is hard-grounded on Coppermine/Mendocino slotkets).
Otherwise, the system will not boot past the BIOS, and merely removing the pin will not suffice.

eeJay wrote on 2026-08-25, 17:17:
BTW, notice the left pad on the slotket? It smoked one time:) Probably poor contact from using it upright and the CPU cooler dra […]
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BTW, notice the left pad on the slotket?
It smoked one time:)
Probably poor contact from using it upright and the CPU cooler dragging it down.
Still works fine and have been using it horizontally since.

https://ps-2.kev009.com/eprmhtml/eprma/f706.htm
You inserted it misaligned, causing a short circuit between Pin A2 (GND) and Pin 3 (CPU power).

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Audigy 4 SB0610
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value SB0400
Gigabyte Ga-k8n51gmf, Turion64 ML-30@2.2GHz , Radeon X800GTO PL16, Diamond monster sound MX300

Reply 8 of 18, by TELVM

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eeJay wrote on 2026-08-25, 16:22:
... I've had this combo for a few years: MSI MS-6163 Pro (Intel 440BX), slotket, Tualatin 1400 SL6BY. The issue is that the CPU […]
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... I've had this combo for a few years: MSI MS-6163 Pro (Intel 440BX), slotket, Tualatin 1400 SL6BY.
The issue is that the CPU runs at 133 MHz FSB, which makes the AGP run at 89 MHz.
I don't have any fast PCI graphics cards, so I have to use AGP.
It works super fast ... until it doesn't. It's unstable ...

^ I feel your pain bro, that's the Achilles' heel of any Tualatinized 440BX board. 🙁

If only we could hack a 1/2 divisor for the AGP bus ...

Let the air flow!

Reply 9 of 18, by eeJay

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Someone overdid it at first, and then got lazy. Confess, was it you? 😀

Nah 😀
I bought this kit (motherboard, slotket with CPU and cooler, RAM) about 8 years ago on eBay.
Only took it apart yesterday and found out that the CPU is modified.
I thought a modified BIOS + an appropriate slotket was enough to get a Tualatin working on a 440BX board.

So if I understand correctly, the SL6BY should work on my QDI VIA VT82C694T?
The motherboard still has physical voltage jumpers instead of setting the voltage through BIOS.

As for the Celerons: Bits und Bolts on YouTube is putting together a new slotket project, maybe my Celerons will work with it in the MSI MS-6163 440BX board?

Reply 10 of 18, by shevalier

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eeJay wrote on Yesterday, 13:41:

The motherboard still has physical voltage jumpers

It should.
Provided it sets the voltages according to the jumper settings right away, rather than reconfiguring them afterwards.
This is a late-wave Socket 370 motherboard, so anything can happen.

If there's a voltage setting in the BIOS in any mode, I wouldn't risk it.
If it's jumpers-only, the motherboard will output exactly what's set by them right away.

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Audigy 4 SB0610
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value SB0400
Gigabyte Ga-k8n51gmf, Turion64 ML-30@2.2GHz , Radeon X800GTO PL16, Diamond monster sound MX300

Reply 11 of 18, by rasz_pl

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TELVM wrote on Yesterday, 11:45:

^ I feel your pain bro, that's the Achilles' heel of any Tualatinized 440BX board. 🙁

If only we could hack a 1/2 divisor for the AGP bus ...

we talked about it with myne somewhere in The thing no one asked for: KICAD 440bx reference schematic
afair 440BX outputs the AGP clock meaning it divides it internally, 815 has no such output and requires additional clock for AGP. Re: The thing no one asked for: KICAD 440bx reference schematic
There is slight possibility that providing external AGP clock source using something like $5 Si5351A board would solve this.

https://github.com/raszpl/sigrok-disk FM/MFM/RLL decoder
https://github.com/raszpl/FIC-486-GAC-2-Cache-Module (AT&T Globalyst)
https://github.com/raszpl/386RC-16 ram board
https://github.com/raszpl/Zenith_ZBIOS Zenith Z-386 MFM-300 ZBIOS disassembly

Reply 12 of 18, by eeJay

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OK.
So I put the 1.5V Celeron into the QDI motherboard just to take a look at those BIOS options.
There are absolutely no options to change voltages.
The SpeedEasy CPU menu is practically empty.
Notice the Vcore on the screenshots - the only way it could be changed was thru the jumpers.

Reply 13 of 18, by watson

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eeJay wrote on Yesterday, 13:41:

The motherboard still has physical voltage jumpers instead of setting the voltage through BIOS.

I was reading this and thinking there is no way such a late socket 370 board uses jumpers to set the CPU voltage (Asus TUSL2-C, Abit ST6, Abit VH6T - none of them have any voltage jumpers), but it looks like the Advance 10T is a perfect match for your CPU with missing VID pins.

However, there is an auto setting according to the manual (which you obviously do not want to use):

The attachment manual.jpg is no longer available

Reply 14 of 18, by eeJay

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Yes, the jumpers were on Auto before (when the SL5Y5 1.2GHz Celeron Tualatin was installed), but now I switched them to the manual setting.

There is another thing - do you guys think that the modded wire on the SL6BY adds any significant height to the CPU?
The cooler already fits kind of snug on the Celerons as it is.

Reply 15 of 18, by shevalier

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Usually, a wire mod is done with much thinner wires anyway—for example, taken from a UDMA-100 IDE cable.
You just need a cooler with a weaker or higher clip

Last edited by shevalier on 2026-08-27, 11:48. Edited 1 time in total.

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Audigy 4 SB0610
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value SB0400
Gigabyte Ga-k8n51gmf, Turion64 ML-30@2.2GHz , Radeon X800GTO PL16, Diamond monster sound MX300

Reply 16 of 18, by TELVM

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rasz_pl wrote on Yesterday, 15:05:

we talked about it with myne somewhere in The thing no one asked for: KICAD 440bx reference schematic

^ Fascinating thread, even though most of it goes over my head 😀 . Thanks! 👍

The venerable Anandtech article is very interesting, specially the part about the importance of disabling SBA (Side Band Addressing).

rasz_pl wrote on Yesterday, 15:05:

... afair 440BX outputs the AGP clock meaning it divides it internally, 815 has no such output and requires additional clock for AGP. Re: The thing no one asked for: KICAD 440bx reference schematic

So on 440BX the AGP bus clock is always FSB*2/3, and that is set in stone?

For instance in both of these color-framed settings:

file.php?mode=view&id=248195

^ AGP clock remains the same, ~89 MHz (133*2/3)? (Even though PCI clock varies from 44 to 33 MHz,)

.

While we're at it, is there any easy way to get the real, actual value for the AGP clock? Perhaps some HWinfo-style software?

Or there is no other way than a scope?

rasz_pl wrote on Yesterday, 15:05:

... There is slight possibility that providing external AGP clock source using something like $5 Si5351A board would solve this.

So we'd set that gadget to generate 66 MHz (standard AGP clock) ...

file.php?mode=view&id=248196

... then cut or block the FSB*2/3 clock signal from the chipset, and plug in the external 66 MHz signal?

Let the air flow!

Reply 17 of 18, by rasz_pl

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in theory, maybe? the actual interesting part is GCLKIN at Re: The thing no one asked for: KICAD 440bx reference schematic

on 815 Clockgen makes GSP clock, separate PCI clock, and separate 66MHz clocks (ICH_3V66 GMCH_3V66) going to ICH and GMCH (815 chipset itself).
815 doesnt have explicit AGP clock input or output. AGP connector clock pin is supplied with AGPCLK_CONN signal generated by same Clockgen chip. All three 66MHz output pins are from same synced source, just buffered separately.

on 440BX my guess is Intel noticed clockgen makers wont be able to supply enough chips, or maybe wanted to make it easier for mobo makers so tehy can use any standard legacy clock gen chip, anyway intel decided to produce 66MHz clock internally in the chipset
GCLKIN - I - AGP Clock In: The GCLKIN input is a feedback reference from the GCLKOUT signal.
GCLKO - O - AGP Clock Out: The frequency is 66 MHz. The GCLKOUT output is used to feed
both the reference input pin on the 82443BX and the AGP compliant device.
https://theretroweb.com/chip/documentation/82 … 13.pdf#page=114
AGP slot is clocked by GCLKOUT. Its _very possible_ GCLKOUT is fed by entirely separate clock source block not connected internally AT ALL to anything, and 440BX gets its AGP clock from GCLKIN.
Now the good news is Intel insists manufacturers dont just link those two balls deep under the chip, but extract both out and buffer both with 22 ohm resistors to terminate any undesirable clock bounces, plus
'Note** Please make the GCLKIN trace length 3.3" more than the GCLKOUT recommended trace length'

So in theory one could do an experiment:
-cut GCLKOUT connection at the terminating 22 ohm resistors
-wire spare PCI clock there

if this works and boots up then 440BX AGP can be clocked externally by whatever clock you want.

edit: as for PCI frequency - no idea how 440BX internally generates that 66MHz AGP clock, does it do it from PCI clock? from FSB? you would have to probe AGP pin 6 while playing with PCI clock. Maybe its as simple as having clockgen capable of fsb/4. Now that I think about it clock doubling PCI is the obvious easiest choice. So maybe it is just a matter of replacing clockgen for one doing fsb/4

https://github.com/raszpl/sigrok-disk FM/MFM/RLL decoder
https://github.com/raszpl/FIC-486-GAC-2-Cache-Module (AT&T Globalyst)
https://github.com/raszpl/386RC-16 ram board
https://github.com/raszpl/Zenith_ZBIOS Zenith Z-386 MFM-300 ZBIOS disassembly

Reply 18 of 18, by TELVM

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rasz_pl wrote on Today, 12:50:

... no idea how 440BX internally generates that 66MHz AGP clock, does it do it from PCI clock? from FSB? you would have to probe AGP pin 6 while playing with PCI clock. Maybe its as simple as having clockgen capable of fsb/4. Now that I think about it clock doubling PCI is the obvious easiest choice. So maybe it is just a matter of replacing clockgen for one doing fsb/4

I have a 440BX board (Tekram P6BX-An) that comes OEM with a clockgen able to do FSB/4, the Winbond W83194R-39A (see table above).

I could set in BIOS first the parameters framed in red ( FSB = 133 , PCI = 133/3 = 44 ), then the ones framed in blue ( FSB=133 , PCI = 133/4 = 33 ).

Then if somehow I was able to get the actual, live, real frequency of the AGP bus under both of those conditions, we'd know empirically if AGP = FSB*2/3 (would be 89 in both cases), or AGP = PCI*2 (first case would be 89, second case 66).

Is there any way to "read" the actual AGP freq without a scope? (which I most unfortunately lack 🙁 ).

Let the air flow!