SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby gdjacobs » 2017-1-03 @ 04:15

Would front panel FSB or multiplier toggles in addition drop performance down the 386 territory?
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby clueless1 » 2017-1-03 @ 12:02

gdjacobs wrote:Would front panel FSB or multiplier toggles in addition drop performance down the 386 territory?

I've never done it, but I assume if it could be done, one could put a switch between 83 and 66 FSB. The jumper configs are pretty complicated though. Not sure how one would do that. Has anyone ever posted photos of a similar job they did? A visual of the wiring along with the jumper config would help.

On a practical note, my 486 already can get down to WC1 speeds.

What I find more interesting is the fact that CCD and DCD switches work with Ultima 7 when L1D does not.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby boxpressed » 2017-1-03 @ 15:43

I had associated SETMUL with my K6-3+ build for so long that I didn't realize that it would work with my Cyrix 5x86-120.

I decided to see how slowly I could get the CPU to run. When it is running full-speed (3x @ 40MHz bus), it is close to a Pentium 90 in performance.

To begin, I jumpered the FSB to 25MHz so that the CPU ran at 75MHz.

Now I can slow my system down enough to do a proper recording of Heart of China for my wavetable thread. Faster CPUs allow you to hear only about 20-30 seconds of the intro music before going to the first scene.

I could do this all by jumper, of course, but SETMUL is so convenient.

Here are the Speedsys results if anyone in interested.

Code: Select all
CYRIX 5X86-75                        SPEEDSYS

                                     34.33
INT CACHE DISABLED                   11.72
INT CACHE DISABLED + SETMUL 1        7.21
INT & EXT CACHE DISABLED + SETMUL 1  6.99



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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby gdjacobs » 2017-1-03 @ 20:34

Pedant says, "Heart of China isn't wavetable!"
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby gerwin » 2017-2-20 @ 16:28

boxpressed wrote:I had associated SETMUL with my K6-3+ build for so long that I didn't realize that it would work with my Cyrix 5x86-120.
....
Code: Select all
CYRIX 5X86-75                        SPEEDSYS
                                     34.33
INT CACHE DISABLED                   11.72
INT CACHE DISABLED + SETMUL 1        7.21
INT & EXT CACHE DISABLED + SETMUL 1  6.99

Indeed, it is very cool that the Cyrix 5x86 can switch to and from the 1.0x multiplier from the command prompt. This way the Cx5x86 can substitute the common types of 486 processors: The original 486DX-33 at multi 1.0x, the 486DX/2-66 at multi 2.0x and the 486DX/4-100 at multi 3.0x. Though switching between 2.0x and 3.0x requires a reboot and one jumper to be toggled, or a case-switch attached to that jumper.
When I tested it on my 486: 66 MHz without L1 cache/No-Turbo is stil too fast for many classics like Death-Track, but the same at 33MHz made that game run properly. Compare that to the AMD 5x86 with 3.0x and 4.0x multi; Better off with the 1.0x, 2.0x and 3.0x options on the Cyrix.
(PS. Just talking about the normal Cyrix 5x86 models with a maximum multiplier of 3.0x, knowing there are rare 4.0x ones too)

SetMul v1.21 wil be up in the coming weeks. As the numbering indicates it is just a minor feature update: It will read from Pentium II/III registers the multiplier setting that was configured at bootup.
This is not as straightforward as it may seem, as there are about 5 different lookup tables depending on the processor model/stepping and multiplier readout value. Intel was obviously running out of possible values in their small 4-bit multiplier register and worked around that in different ways. I could not find proper documentation, but tests with my E.S. CPUs and an example from CrystalCPUID should suffice. Fun stuff. :)
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby gerwin » 2017-2-22 @ 00:21

SetMul v1.21 is available now in the 1st post of this topic.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby clueless1 » 2017-2-22 @ 00:28

gerwin wrote:SetMul v1.21 is available now in the 1st post of this topic.

Thanks, gerwin!
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby sonicpro » 2017-6-14 @ 10:19

Is there any limitation of using SetMul on Nehemiah processor installed on i815 Tualatin-compatible board? I do not think I have the right slotket for Nehemiah, though I have a Tualatin-compatible board manufactured by PCPartner.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby gerwin » 2017-6-16 @ 21:50

When the C3 Nehemiah processor functions on your motherboard, then it is all the same to SetMul. (Though the lowest possible speed settings may depend on the motherboard to some extend, as some systems lock when trying to set the nehemiah to a mere 200..266MHz.)
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby m5215tx » 2017-6-23 @ 19:20

I have a VIA C3-700AMHz processor + a socket 370 to slot 1 adapter with adjustable bus speeds (66MHz and 100MHz) + an Intel SE440BX-2 motherboard.

Can I mount my C3 on the socket 370 to slot 1 adapter and set it for a bus speed of 66MHz then install it on the SE440BX-2 motherboard and from MS-DOS 6.22 use SetMul to adjust the speed to play old and newer DOS games?

Sounds like it might work unless I am missing something.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby gerwin » 2017-6-25 @ 18:43

It should work.
In this topic: VIA C3 Nehemiah vs. Coppermine(-128) and Tualatin. The VIA C3 compatibility of the SE440BX-2 Motherboard is demonstrated. With BIOS version P13 that is.
For earlier VIA C3 models 'Samuel' and 'Ezra', like yours, most Slotkets will work.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby m5215tx » 2017-7-03 @ 16:21

I am using my VIA C3-700AMHz processor with a VIA chipset based motherboard I acquired so the CPU is fully recognized and used properly. I have MS-DOS 6.22 and I have run SetMul and I see all the options and have been experimenting with it. Is the CPU stable after its clocked down and features disabled? When I run Privateer the cutscene seems to get a little out of sync. At first I thought I had made the CPU too slow but when I had it running at about the speed of a 486DX2 66MHz I still noticed the sync issues. My 386DX 40MHz does not have this issue so something is up.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby Kamerat » 2017-7-03 @ 16:42

m5215tx wrote:I am using my VIA C3-700AMHz processor with a VIA chipset based motherboard I acquired so the CPU is fully recognized and used properly. I have MS-DOS 6.22 and I have run SetMul and I see all the options and have been experimenting with it. Is the CPU stable after its clocked down and features disabled? When I run Privateer the cutscene seems to get a little out of sync. At first I thought I had made the CPU too slow but when I had it running at about the speed of a 486DX2 66MHz I still noticed the sync issues. My 386DX 40MHz does not have this issue so something is up.

Can you tell us what graphic and sound card you're using and how is the monitor connected?
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby gerwin » 2017-7-04 @ 15:29

@m5215tx

The CPU is not unstable, since an unstable CPU would have locked up. What particular SetMul switch causes the problem, is it the downclocking or the disabling of caches?
Note that this SetMul tool is experimental, it is based on CPU options mentioned in the old datasheets and observations of the apparent results. It is what it is.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby m5215tx » 2017-7-04 @ 19:05

Upon further examination I don't think SetMul is the issue here so for now please disregard this inquiry. I think I have some other hardware issue here so I may open a different thread elsewhere for some assistance with this. Thanks for the feedback.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby lvader » 2017-7-24 @ 12:27

Been playing with a 5x86 build, the turbo button doesn't seem to make much difference so I tried it on the multiplier jumper. Unlike other Pentiums, here it changes the multiplier on the fly so the turbo button switches between 66 and 100 MHz and with setmul I can switch to 33 MHz as well.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby gerwin » 2017-7-24 @ 13:54

lvader wrote:Unlike other Pentiums, here it changes the multiplier on the fly

3x Multi to 2x Multi without reboot? Had not tried that, but that is neat!
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby lvader » 2017-7-24 @ 14:35

Even more odd, when I invert the 3 pin turbo connector it switches between 1x and 2x.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby MERCURY127 » 2017-9-28 @ 18:25

run SetMul on my P3 800EB (6x133) and get output^
multiplier 6.0
cpu frequency 939 :lol:
something wrong?
mobo GA-6VXC7-4X (VIA 694X & 686A)
details here https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA ... -rev-50#sp
and here http://www.motherboard.cz/mb/gigabyte/GA-6VXC7-4X-P.htm
and here NO overclock at now!
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby gerwin » 2017-9-28 @ 18:32

Does it do this consistently at every run? SetMul just does a read-TSC directly from the CPU, waits a bit, and does another read-TSC. Speed in MHz is calculated from the TSC change over that time period.
Just tested it on Tauleron Pentium III running at 8.0x133=1066MHz. SetMul gets it right every time here...
I have a similar VIA board in storage but not set-up for testing.
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