Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby appiah4 » 2018-1-19 @ 07:08

olivil wrote:Is there a YMF71x model that is confirmed to fit a NEC XR385 without making a custom cable?


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-OPL-Y ... 2942680258

Image

badmojo wrote:Why did you post that question in this thread?

An ESS1688 is the way to go:

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=37497&start=40#p341216


Well, is it really that simple? Why the 1688? I had a similar question I posted here a while ago: https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=53158

And ultimately the 1868 is basically the same chip as a 1688 but integrates PnP, ATAPI controllers, full duplex mono and 3D spatial sound (albeit a shitty one). The 1869 is 48KHz so less desirable due to sampling shenanigans, I get that, but it also has full duplex stereo so it's a tradeoff.
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby badmojo » 2018-1-19 @ 08:24

appiah4 wrote:Well, is it really that simple? Why the 1688?


Did you read my post about the 1688? I think I expressed my opinion pretty clearly. And I'll ask you this now too - why are you posting about SB Pro 2 clones in a SB16 clone thread?
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby appiah4 » 2018-1-19 @ 09:24

For the same reason that you are responding to it; i.e. it's relevant. But fair enough, I apologize if I derailed the subject.
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby Woolie Wool » 2018-3-06 @ 02:23

What is the likelihood of a non-PnP ISA Sound Blaster 16 clone being made in the future? Clean, modern PCM, real OPL3, and a working MPU-401 for a drop-in Sound Blaster replacement that "just works" like no actual SB16 does? We've got AdLib clones and GUS clones but no modern clones of a card where all of the original models were flawed in some way.
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby Tiido » 2018-3-06 @ 04:15

After I'm done with my current project (that I will present soon) the next one involves something that will have SB16 compatibility among other things, but that's at least a year away due to other obligations.
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby appiah4 » 2018-3-06 @ 06:35

Woolie Wool wrote:What is the likelihood of a non-PnP ISA Sound Blaster 16 clone being made in the future? Clean, modern PCM, real OPL3, and a working MPU-401 for a drop-in Sound Blaster replacement that "just works" like no actual SB16 does? We've got AdLib clones and GUS clones but no modern clones of a card where all of the original models were flawed in some way.


Is there really a market for this? I don't see where the demand could come from. There are enough SB Pro compatible and decent non-PnP ISA cards out there at the moment and SB16 compatibility really adds not much over SB Pro compatibility IMHO..
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby Woolie Wool » 2018-3-06 @ 06:49

Yes, for the working MPU UART (perhaps the clone could even have intelligent mode!) and 16-bit sound used by games like Doom, Duke Nukem 3D, and anything that uses CD music. It adds a whole lot for any game made after 1992 or so, and there is no "just works" ISA Sound Blaster 16. Every single CT number has something wrong with it (the ones without the hanging note bug have bad PCM and many of the later ones have CQM), and the clones either have limited compatibility, drivers that can potentially cause problems, or both. A fully functional, clean-sounding SB16 with a good MPU-401 and wavetable header would be the ultimate DOS sound card for anyone but a GUS diehard.
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby newold86 » 2018-3-25 @ 14:26

Woolie Wool wrote: A fully functional, clean-sounding SB16 with a good MPU-401 and wavetable header would be the ultimate DOS sound card for anyone but a GUS diehard.


Being discussed right now - viewtopic.php?f=62&t=59138
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby derSammler » 2018-3-25 @ 14:34

Woolie Wool wrote:and there is no "just works" ISA Sound Blaster 16. Every single CT number has something wrong with it (the ones without the hanging note bug have bad PCM and many of the later ones have CQM), and the clones either have limited compatibility

ALS100 or CT1740 / CT1750 cards are just fine. The ALS100 even doing SB Pro and SB16 in stereo (which no real SB16 is able to).
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby appiah4 » 2018-3-26 @ 04:32

ALS100 has integrated ALSFM not discrete OPL3 lile ALS007 right? That would be subpar to put it mildly.
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby gerwin » 2018-3-26 @ 12:02

IIRC integrated ALSFM was introduced with the ALS100+ (note the plus). But a bigger issue with the ALS chips is the output quality: I found the signal to noise ratio to be poor, especially because the signal itself is rather low in volume. But maybe there is an obscure way to configure that...
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby Jo22 » 2018-4-15 @ 12:02

That's true. I researched some information about this chip last year.
The ALS100(+) can be fun for starters, I believe. Perhaps someone, somwhen can make a better card design based on this chip.
IMHO, the chip didnt deserve to be treated that badly by card makers.. :depressed:
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby The Serpent Rider » 2018-5-13 @ 09:05

CT1740 / CT1750 cards are just fine

Only certain revisions with oldest DSP and they still have DMA clicking and still very noisy.
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby MKT_Gundam » 2018-5-26 @ 02:29

Is the Avance Logic ASL100+ a good SB 16 clone?
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby gdjacobs » 2018-5-26 @ 05:08

ALS chips were one of the few options for SB16 clones. They should be fairly cheap where available (maybe less than a movie ticket), so I'd probably just buy one if I was interested.
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby gerwin » 2018-5-26 @ 12:01

MKT_Gundam wrote:Is the Avance Logic ASL100+ a good SB 16 clone?

We talked about it right above your question?
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby misterjones » 2018-5-29 @ 20:07

Woolie Wool wrote: A fully functional, clean-sounding SB16 with a good MPU-401 and wavetable header would be the ultimate DOS sound card for anyone but a GUS diehard.


I'm curious, what issues were/are being seen with the MPU401 in the SB16's? I used my CT4170's MIDI I/O for a good while without issue with my old MT32 and as a stop-gap MIDI input for my 486-based sequencing rig back in the late 90's (I had a Midiman MM401 but was having an issue getting it configured properly for Win95b and threw the Vibra in there temporarily)
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby gerwin » 2018-5-29 @ 20:43

@misterjones Please start a new topic for that question. It will pollute this topic, which is about SB16 Clones only.
I will just give you this: http://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Hanging_note_bug
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby Intel486dx33 » 2018-5-30 @ 07:21

gerwin wrote:This week I received a Terratec Maestro 32 (2nd edition) ISA Sound Card. This card is also WSS compatible. But my favorite games don't support WSS, I am talking about Tie-Fighter / System Shock etc. I tried swapping System Shocks miles drivers with unreliable success. Normally I thought SB-Pro mode gives almost optimal sound in games, as the game samples are 8-bit anyways, but I do notice improvements when using WSS: When firing automatic guns in the game the sound is more fluent, as if there are more channels available?

This got me thinking of somehow getting SB-16 compatibility back. But I don't like my SB-16 Vibra CT2800 enough to give it my ISA slot, as it doesn't do SB-Pro and it gives hanging Midi notes.

I could put back in my old SB-128PCI or SB-Live for SB-16 sound, but I am not to fond of their Dos emulation.

Then there are some obscure cards by Avance Logic that do SB-16: the ALS100 ISA and the ALS4000 PCI and such. I got the feeling these are a bit crappy, but I don't have one to test.

Then to my actual question: There are also C-Media chipsets that do SB-16. I had two of these CMI-8338 PCI chipsets in the past, cannot really remember if they worked well for DOS. But there is also an ISA chipset; the CMI8330 Audio Excel. Some people on the net seem to like it for its S/PDIF output. But I don't know if that is any use for Dos. Anyone got an opinion on this card, should I get me one?

Edit: deleted the image, as there is now a better one below.
Edit2: "I tried swapping System Shocks miles drivers with unreliable success" -> Later managed to do this properly, it works well.


I am going to build a retro gaming computer with Terratec audio cards.
I have a Terratec DMX6-Fire and EWS88MT.
I will probably use a P3/P4 Mobo and CPU and WIn-2000 or XP. I have not decided yet.
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Re: Sound Blaster 16 Clones

Postby appiah4 » 2018-5-30 @ 07:27

I love Terratec like no other but the 6Fire is a recording card and not very good for gaming.. A Terratec Gold 16/96 or even better a Maestro 32/96 is the way to go for that. If you have to go with PCI the Solo 128, Digital 512i or the XFire 1024 are better options for gaming than the 6Fire.
1989:A500R6|+512K/RTC|ACA500+|HxC/df1:|C1084S
1992:HIPPO-VL+|DX2ODPR66|8M|GD5428|CT2290
1995:PCI597-1|P133|32M|Trio64|Voodoo1|CT3980/2M|DreamS2
1998:S1573S|K6-2/400|64M|VirgeDX|Voodoo2/SLI|CT4500/32M
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