Man! strange results.

Did i have a problem with my configuration ?

What is the bottleneck in each NFS game and differents resolution? The CPU or geforce 2 mx 200 videocard ?

thanks for answers guys.

( Note: i take it in consideration when framerate drop , i didnt talk about it , but high fps drop when reading on this super slow original 5.25" hard disk , its a 4000 rpm , its runs like 1000 rpm 🤣!, and it does A LOT OF NOISE when it read things !! I cant live with that noise. i will put a better one soon, but it seems to work very well )
( Note: i just got NFS Porsche working good, 14 more fps with no HUD in display, read Edit in first post.)

I think Porsche benefits from a faster CPU than a P2 at the race starts, but the MX200 is also struggling I would think, with 64bit SDR,
if you want a hard track for the GPU I think Schwarzwald was the one giving me the most trouble with a Voodoo 4 4500
but overall the v4 4500 was mostly fine for playing at 800x600-1024-768 nearly on max details offered using glide (so 16bit colors and so on which helps)

in NFS3 if I remember correctly rain really dropped the framerate,

i just added Geforce 4 mx440SE (64bit version) results. Much more FPS than using a geforce 2 mx 200, maybe no driver overhead.

BUT Im very surprised i saw no difference at all between any resolution in Need for speed III Hot Pursuit and NFS Porsche unleashed. ( maybe 5% fps difference between 640x480 and 1024x768)

I have a few questions about that result i just had with NFS III and NFS Porsche and 440mxSE, i want to understand better. thanks for answers:

1. Is it because of a cpu bottleneck that i get same fps in any resolution in that game ?

2. and if i try for example a better Geforce card like G4 ti4200 or FX5600 or maybe gf6 6800gt ( i dont have them) would the fps be higher in 1024x768 in maximum graphics setting ? would i have perfect 60fps?

3. If answer is NO at number question 2. i suppose even the cpu have to be stronger in high resolution like 1024x768 ? or the P2 450mhz is enough for this game?

4. Does the GPU have a DRIVER OVERHEAD problem even with P2 450mhz ?

After these 4 answers i should really get it in my head 😉 LoL!

Thanks guys ! 😀 Im very surprised of this result.

Edit: i tested again 440mx SE with Porsche, same result, all results are correct, but i edited them a little, more details.

Edit2:NFS III and mx440SE have correct fps results, i just tested it again, no difference at all in fps , not even 1fps, in maximum graphics between 640x480 and 1024x768, 100% same fps during 1 full lap in each resolution, same fps drop at same place

EDIT3: i just add a new result benchmark of Geforce FX 5200 PCI 64bit DDR , its very similar to geforce 2 mx200 fps result and worst than mx440SE(64bit). its seem to have a overhead driver problem. But im impress A LOT by FX 5200 Picture Quality vs All others cards, i talk about that in the benchmark section. NEXT TESTS will be done with same cards with a Pentium III 733mhz or 800mhz or 933mhz.
I just got by chance for free a Pentium III 933mhz with a geforce 1 (256) DDR in it. 😀

Edit4: new benchmarks again are just arrived 😀

Edit5: new benchmarks again are just arrived 😀

Does the GPU have a DRIVER OVERHEAD problem even with P2 450mhz ?

Of course it does. It might be not as horrible as on S7 system, because you can at least get acceptable frame rate, even with late drivers, but it's still an issue to consider.

Ok i need help. Its not normal.

I got this with a P3 at 933 mhz:

P3 933mhz, 256mb, win98
1024x768 full graphic, except view distance medium
NFS III HP with Geforce FX 5200 PCI DDR 64bit

1024x768
Lot of cars : 38fps
Alone 38fps
Some cars around : 38fps

Its not normal ???

How i can have only 38 fps ???

Its the same 38 fps with a P2 450mhz and same videocard or with a worst video card ? Thanks for answer and help.

- I use fraps 1.9
- The P3 is not the same computer than the P2
- Maybe its a Fraps problem, maybe it runs at 60fps, i think it looks like that. It runs smoothly, no tearing or vsync problem, no slow down, no fps high spike, it always 38
-OR maybe the game runs at a maximum of 38 fps.
- At lowest graphics in 1024x768 its still 38fps.
- with Full view distance its still 38fps.
- i just tested again and feel it runs maybe at 38fps for real , when i turn a corner it doesnt look 60fps.
- Its strange in 640x480, it runs at 38fps too but sometime it switch to 54fps for 2 seconds and fall back at 38fps. Maybe i have to change with vsync option but nvdia 45.23 driver dont have vsync setting. i need help thanks

could this be vsync? like double buffered vsync at 75Hz not hitting full FPS so going to half framerate?

because the game doesn't have a lock at 38FPS, I've played it at 60 and more, also p3 933 should improve the game quite a bit from a P2 from my experience with P2 400 vs p3 750 with the v4 4500.

SPBHM wrote on 2020-08-24, 06:36:

could this be vsync? like double buffered vsync at 75Hz not hitting full FPS so going to half framerate?

because the game doesn't have a lock at 38FPS, I've played it at 60 and more, also p3 933 should improve the game quite a bit from a P2 from my experience with P2 400 vs p3 750 with the v4 4500.

probably !! i use optimal in refresh rate adapter tab. i will change it to 60hz and try again. But at 60hz display quality is not very crisp on my samsung 32" lcd tv in vga. i try it now and tell you the result. thanks

Edit: Its worst ! I got 30 fps at 60hz. I cant believe my system is not good enough for 60 fps. Any ideas ? thanks ( maybe i could try vsync off with a program like riva turner or powerstrip, but i really want 60hz with vsync on.)
- I just finished 1st lap, it always at 30fps, never goes to 60fps , not even one time.
- Ok i finished lap 2 in last place far behind, and a few times it switch to 60fps for 4-5 seconds and switch back to 30 fps, it did it 3 times in lap 2.
- i stayed in 1024x768 and i changed all graphics to lowest possible and i got 60fps stable. It seems
" Horizon Setting " at disable vs high can switch the game between 60fps to 30fps by himself.)
Im will be really disappointed if a P3 933 mhz and a FX 5200 cant run NFS III in high graphics at 1024x768 at 60 fps stable enough. IS IT Normal ?
( i will try my voodoo 3 with it when i received it friday) - i just tested more. the best it can do to get 1024x768 at 60 fps and only with no cars around 🙁 its highest graphical setting with Horizon Disable and View Distance Close. im not satisfied. I hope voodoo 3 will do 1024x768 60 fps with near full graphics, otherwise i will buy a FX 5600 or a better FX card or a 6800 GT. i think both cards are ok for win98 and good for dos too. ( im not sure a Geforce 2 GTS or Geforce 3 ti200 or Geforce 4 ti4200 wont be enough to play in 1024x768 in most win98 games? right?) I really hope my current results are not normal and someone here will be able to help me to correct the problem, if its not normal to have less than 60fps in that game with my P3 933mhz and a fx 5200. thanks guys!

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-24, 06:13:

- Its strange in 640x480, it runs at 38fps too but sometime it switch to 54fps for 2 seconds and fall back at 38fps. Maybe i have to change with vsync option but nvdia 45.23 driver dont have vsync setting. i need help thanks

Download the Coolbits registry tweak from Phil's website. It will unlock several new settings in the drivers, including V-sync control.

To disable V-sync, go to the Nvidia driver panel > Direct3D Settings > More Direct3D > Vertical sync mode > Always off. Do this for OpenGL as well.

im not sure a Geforce 2 GTS or Geforce 3 ti200 or Geforce 4 ti4200 wont be enough to play in 1024x768 in most win98 games?

A GeForce4 ti4200 coupled with a 1 GHz CPU should be fast enough to deliver 60+ FPS at 1280x1024 (and below) in the vast majority of Win9x games. See my AthlonXP build for example.

I think the problem now is the PCI version of the GeForce FX5200. Have you tried with the equivalent AGP version?

I just saw your messages guys. i have to sleep soon. I already patch Need III with the high resolution patch but thanks to Bloodem. Tomorrow i will install Phil vsync tweak. But i just made several tests, im doing differents benchmark for fun but i still want a P3 system that i like. I will try tomorrow some of your suggestions.

BUT the 38fps was because adapter was set at optimal refresh rate (75hz). Now i got 30 fps with FX 5200. So i remove the PCI fx 5200 64 bit because i know now its a bad card for my system, maybe PCI one is not good. i dont have the agp version.

And i try the gf4 mx440SE with the P3 933mhz and HURRAY! i got 60 fps very much stable in NFSIII, only a few hiccup , 3 or 4 times in total during first race at 4 laps. Hiccup was at 50-55 fps for 3-5 seconds, it happens when i see smoke fog or A LOT of cars at same place, very rare. its much better now, but im not perfect satisfied because In Porsche unleashed its not perfect.

In NFS Porsche At 1024x768x32bits highest setting , at least its very playable , but far from perfect: 35 to 45 fps with cars and 55 fps with no cars. I would have prefer near 60 fps.

Now for need for speed hot pursuit2 its only playable at lowest graphics setting in 640x480 for 35-55fps but it looks like garbage 🤣! Even with all setting at 2/4 settings like at Low settings instead of lowest its not really playable im just at 640x480. i got 17-20fps with a lot of cars and 25 with a few cars. 30-40 no cars at all. i tried at medium graphics and 640 x 480 its horrible like 8 to 14fps. So i believe its a gpu bottleneck. and for

For Porsche unleashed i think its gpu bottleneck too if i want to get 60fps in 1024x768. But i dont care much of Hot Pursuit 2 , but i will take it too more playable if possible. and just for fun i will try NFS Underground 2, i have minimum requirement but i think it will play like garbage even at lowest settings.

Dont forget the Geforce 4 mx440SE is only 64bit and i think its similar to normal Geforce 2 mx . I dont think its enough for me. I know Bloodem you think its enough, but i want more performance at 1024x768 in NFS Porsche and HotPursuit2 if its possible. And i want more fps in porsche unleashed like near 60 fps, even if its not perfect stable thats fine, i will live with it. And i want Hot Pursuit ii to be more playable at medium graphics. i dont hope for perfect 60fps at 1024 x 768 because im not sure its realism with my P3 933mhz. But who knows? But i want to keep my P3 933mhz, i want to keep it. maybe i will upgrade to a better P3 Cpu but only in some months, all P3 cpu more than 1ghz are expensive.

So What is the best AGP videocards i can buy ?

( with my voodoo 3 pci already in the system soon)

I want more gpu performance than gf4 mx440SE and gf2 mx200( that last card suck at 64bit)
Thanks for suggestions.

( i received a geforce 256 DDR it runs pretty well, probably better than mx440SE but it has a important defect, my father try to repair it earlier today. we changed caps, make soldering, clean the card... The glitchs are strange i cant find any one with that problem. i will try to explain. It happens only with Black and grey colors. its look like black smearing banding. anything black or grey have a left and right trail of black or grey smearing. yeah its strange. i played 1h of NFS games with the card, it works great except for the black smearing banding. Any ideas?

Anyway, any suggestions guys and Bloodem ?
I understand that i need a Geforce card that a P3 933mhz can run without too much overhead driver and that wont cause too much CPU bottleneck. But i will play most of my win98 games in 1024x768, if the game permit it 😀

Thanks in advance.

( Note1: These are my favorites cards of the past, you can pick one in my favorites one too:
Geforce 256 DDR, GF2 GTS, Geforce 3 Ti200, Geforce 4 Ti4200, Gf4 Mx440 128bit, Geforce 6600, Geforce 6800, Geforce 6800 GT)
( But Honestly Some of them are too much expensive) 😉

(Note2: gf2 gts is enough expensive and im not sure its enough for my need ? Maybe i should get gf4 mx 440 at 128bit ? But is it enough ? And i have a friend deal right now, i can get a Geforce 3 Ti200 for 20$ But is it strong enough ? 6.4gb memory bandwidth still better than 2.38 of my mx440 SE. )

Thanks guys for your agp Geforce videocards suggestions. I want to keep my P3 at 933mhz and install my voodoo3 in pci.

AND i will play only win98 games and some dos games, NO WINXP. ( but i mostly use my p233mmx for dos games) Maybe i will try overclocking the P3 because i think i have a great board for that. Ok thanks in advance. Im going to sleep ZZZzzz 😀

EDIT: I JUST MADE SOME CORRECTION to my LONG text and grammar.im Sorry my english is not perfect.

Download the Coolbits registry tweak from Phil's website. It will unlock several new settings in the drivers, including V-sync control.

There's already excellent tweaker called RivaTuner for Vsync and much more. Use version 2.22.

EDIT: I JUST MADE SOME CORRECTION to my LONG text and grammar.im Sorry my english is not perfect.

Thanks yes i will install Phil Tweak tomorrow. I will look at Riva Turner 2.22 too.

Note: I will update Benchmark results tomorrow.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-08-24, 11:43:

There's already excellent tweaker called RivaTuner for Vsync and much more. Use version 2.22.

It depends on how much you want to tweak.

For just enabling V-sync, the registry tweak does the job. It simply unhides the V-sync option in the official Nvidia driver panel. But if you want to go more in-depth and adjust a bunch of other stuff as well, then yes RivaTuner is what you need.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-08-24, 11:43:

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-08-24, 08:11:

Download the Coolbits registry tweak from Phil's website. It will unlock several new settings in the drivers, including V-sync control.

There's already excellent tweaker called RivaTuner for Vsync and much more. Use version 2.22.

Ok thanks , i will look at both of them. Any Geforce videocard suggestion ? ( read my last very long post, i got good result with mx440se and NFS III but i want more performance 😀 more fps for NFS Porsche and HotPursuit2 too if possible.

Do you have any Geforce videocard suggestions for running my NFS games in 1024x768 with my P3 933mhz. I will read your suggestions tomorrow , i really have to sleep ZZZzzz. Thanks a lot !

I just saw that you opened another thread 😁 Go with the GeForce 3 Ti 200 + Detonator 7.76 (forced install). This combo should be perfect for playing a lot of Win98 games at 1280 x 1024 or even 1600 x 1200.

bloodem wrote on 2020-08-24, 11:59:

I just saw that you opened another thread 😁 Go with the GeForce 3 Ti 200 + Detonator 7.76 (forced install). This combo should be perfect for playing a lot of Win98 games at 1280 x 1024 or even 1600 x 1200.

Ok great ! thanks Bloodem i will buy it. and thanks Joseph for ti4200 suggestion. But ti4200 is really a lot expensive, i just checked ebay.

Bloodem do you know if Geforce 3 Ti200 exist with 64 bit memory ? I dont want to buy any 64 bit memory version in error. i will try to verify if its 128 bit memory. Thanks

Edit: i just saw your Build Joseph ! Ah! We have pretty much the same case you and me. My P3 is a Aopen case pretty much identical.

You're welcome. All GeForce 3 Ti 200 have DDR memory and an 128 bit memory bus. The only difference between Ti 200 and Ti 500 is the GPU/memory clock speed.
Regarding GeForce 4 Ti 4200, I actually tested it on a Pentium 3 700 @ 933 MHz a week ago, it's quite a bit slower than a GeForce 2 GTS on this CPU (because of the newer drivers). Though, since you are heavily CPU bottlenecked, you can play many games at 1600 x 1200. Anyway, if you can get one cheap, I would definitely buy it... it's an awesome card for an Athlon XP / Pentium 4 CPU.

Only the crappiest (entry) graphics cards have reduced memory buses, so basically anything with MX, SE, LE, 5200 in the name. The GeForce 3 Ti200 is a mid-range card so it has the full 128-bit bus.

bloodem wrote on 2020-08-24, 12:10:

You're welcome. All GeForce 3 Ti 200 have DDR memory and an 128 bit memory bus. The only difference between Ti 200 and Ti 500 is the GPU/memory clock speed.
Regarding GeForce 4 Ti 4200, I actually tested it on a Pentium 3 700 @ 933 MHz a week ago, it's quite a bit slower than a GeForce 2 GTS on this CPU (because of the newer drivers).

- Ok thanks a lot ! Is the Geforce 3 ti200 better than GF4 MX440 with 128bit memory ? and is it better than gf2 gts ? and bettercthan geforce 256 ddr?

- So is it sure i can force detonator driver on Geforce 3 ti200 and how i do this ?

- Do you still have others geforce Suggestion Bloodem ? I will call my friend tomorrow for the gf3 ti200. But just in case he change his mind about selling, i prefer have another suggestion ?

Is the Next one in the list can be Gf4 MX 440 128 bit or Gf2 GTS ? which one is better for my system ? is the gf4 mx440 128 bit still a good choice ?

Thanks Devius for answer about that. 😀

THANKS A LOT guys and Bloodem, Joseph, Serpent.. ! ZZZzzz im sleepy !