ZellSF wrote on 2021-06-17, 13:31:

RAM is meant to be used, that 8.4GB would either […]
Show full quote

Discrete_BOB_058 wrote on 2021-06-17, 13:25:

Recently I was playing Just Cause 4 and the memory usage was over 8.4GB, used Mem Reduct to clear RAM and usage went to 2.4GB., lower than what Win10 used for me without any task running and here it was running a game.

RAM is meant to be used, that 8.4GB would either

1) Mean the next time you re-launch Just Cause 4 it would launch much faster because it's still in RAM
2) Be instantly relinquished when another application asks for it.

Don't use memory clearing utilities without any idea what memory is used for. Most likely you're just making your computer perform worse overall, so you can look at a smaller number in that one screen.

I don't use them and I don't even need them. It just shows how much bloat Windows 10 has. It's true other processes are killed in the background by a clearing utility, but MS could themeselves try to not make it so bloaty that 6GB is cleared easily.

By clearing those 6GB you made your computer slower. Why would Microsoft intentionally make peoples computer slower, by not using RAM?

ZellSF wrote on 2021-06-17, 13:38:

Anecdotes aside. Windows 10 updates are mostly stable, otherwise you would see more companies switching away from Windows 10.

only as long as you don't use anything special, windows 10 broke compatibility after updates with hardware AND software I was using that worked perfectly fine for years at the start of windows 10.

I said "anecdotes aside". Just because you have problems, and people are more likely to post when they do, doesn't mean it's a general problem.

Also a lot of special stuff is unaffected by updates. To claim that's an instant recipe for disaster needs some sources.

Discrete_BOB_058 wrote on 2021-06-17, 14:07:

I don't use them and I don't even need them. It just shows how much bloat Windows 10 has. It's true other processes are killed in the background by a clearing utility, but MS could themeselves try to not make it so bloaty that 6GB is cleared easily.

I agree! Next time I host a party for 20 people in my house, I am not going to go through the trouble of setting up chairs and tables in the common area for everyone, no sir. The common area should be free, neat and tidy. Every guest that wants to sit, has to remove his own chair from the pile of chairs in the corner, and drag it to the center of the room. If two guests want to sit and chat, they may bring a small table to set their drinks, but as soon as their conversation is over, the glasses better go right into the sink, and the table folded and stuck under the couch. I don't need bloat in my living room!

I would've loved it if some hacker group came out and told everyone that the leaked version actually contained a nice little backdoor for all the ignorant users to hit their heads on. 🤣

Let's just say I used to work for these guys and got to run Windows 8, 8.1, and 10 before they were released. Reading through the posts, seems consistent with my experience that the "Bloat" gets added on after the beta releases.

When Windows 8.0 was in Beta, I installed it on a Toshiba Techra M7 with 4GB of RAM and a Core 2 Duo at 2.6GHz and a flip touch screen. It frickin SCREAMED on that laptop! Once the final release came out though, I might as well have moved back to 7 because a lot of that performance was lost with all the additional crap. When 10 was in beta it was the same experience.

I think, and this is my thoughts on these experiences, a lot of the problem is nobody wants to make a nice, base-model, O/S anymore. It's like wanting them to make a regular cab (Geezer Cab for the youngin's) pickup truck with a manual transmission and hand-crank windows (which I want). It's just not posh or "sexy" enough to impress at the big trade shows as say, something with a fancy gradient and 3-D effect filled GUI with dancing icons and an army of full-time-connected applications.

ZellSF wrote on 2021-06-17, 14:31:

I said "anecdotes aside". Just because you have problems, and people are more likely to post when they do, doesn't mean it's a general problem.

Also a lot of special stuff is unaffected by updates. To claim that's an instant recipe for disaster needs some sources.

What SPECIAL stuff? I hate generalizations...

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-06-17, 16:46:

ZellSF wrote on 2021-06-17, 14:31:

I said "anecdotes aside". Just because you have problems, and people are more likely to post when they do, doesn't mean it's a general problem.

Also a lot of special stuff is unaffected by updates. To claim that's an instant recipe for disaster needs some sources.

What SPECIAL stuff? I hate generalizations...

Then quote the guy who brought it up, not me?

we just need to use some nice debloating software

robertmo wrote on 2021-06-17, 18:12:

we just need to use some nice debloating software

Oh nice, the solution is to bring more third party bloatware to clean up other bloatware. brilliant

robertmo wrote on 2021-06-17, 18:12:

we just need to use some nice debloating software

Windows itself isn't really bloated. If there is non-essential stuff that you don't want loading on boot, it is easy enough to manually disable said stuff.

I used to do this on XP and probably Vista but it is not really needed anymore IMHO.

The real "bloat" comes from the junk that OEMs install on their systems. No.. I don't want your crappy Norton or whatever other crappy crapware you are trying to pedal.

Personally I would recommend against both "debloating" and "privacy" software fixes for Windows 10. They usually do more damage than they help. If you want Windows not break, avoid third party modifications to the system itself. Also avoid any modifications to the system you don't need, even if they don't require third party tools (people hard linking Windows system directories to another drive comes to mind).

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-06-17, 19:05:

I used to do this on XP and probably Vista but it is not really needed anymore IMHO.

Yep, I think that's exactly when I stopped as well. Tried it a bit on early Vista, but realized that I'm spending way more time "tweaking" stuff than whatever milliseconds I might save in runtime. I was running Vista on a Core 2 Quad from day 1, and never felt those theoretical performance benefits that I was supposedly getting. Well, perhaps disabling the Search Indexer on a platter drive was a useful thing to do.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-06-17, 19:05:

The real "bloat" comes from the junk that OEMs install on their systems.

OEMs and corporate IT departments. 😀

ZellSF wrote on 2021-06-17, 19:08:

...If you want Windows not break, avoid third party modifications to the system itself. Also avoid any modifications to the system you don't need, even if they don't require third party tools (people hard linking Windows system directories to another drive comes to mind).

If you want Windows not break, also avoid 1st party modifications to the system by MS itself...
Jokes aside I'm really upset because of undocumented but intentional modifications from updates that break software/hardware. Since you wanted some references here are some that heavily affected me and the VOGONS community:

1. Breaking changes in the method how user mode drivers should be installed: Affected all the community written software synths such as Munt, Coolsoft VMS, OPL3 Windows driver etc.
Re: MUNT disappears in DOSBox
https://coolsoft.altervista.org/en/forum/thread/880
Re: Windows, Doom, Apogee OPL3 Synthesizer.

2. Breaking changes in driver requirements that killed all Audigy/Audigy2/Audigy4 cards on Win 10:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/f … e3-55b8fc798f29
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/f … a9-d1f0ecfb06fe

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-06-17, 19:05:

robertmo wrote on 2021-06-17, 18:12:

we just need to use some nice debloating software

Windows itself isn't really bloated. If there is non-essential stuff that you don't want loading on boot, it is easy enough to manually disable said stuff.

yep, i disable it but it's still just keeps checking if you got latest version, and downloads it, and install it, and tries to reboots but keeps installing, and wait till you can switch the power off, and continues installing after rebooting, optimizing, defragging, updates cleaning, done?!.. no, there is another update to check... analysing... even if you will never ever use it and don't even have that installed cause you have uninstalled it using windows official uninstaller.... .... throws up ....

ZellSF wrote on 2021-06-17, 19:08:

Personally I would recommend against both "debloating" and "privacy" software fixes for Windows 10. They usually do more damage than they help. If you want Windows not break, avoid third party modifications to the system itself. Also avoid any modifications to the system you don't need, even if they don't require third party tools (people hard linking Windows system directories to another drive comes to mind).

Kee?

Of course you are joking aren't you?

robertmo wrote on 2021-06-17, 19:33:

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-06-17, 19:05:

robertmo wrote on 2021-06-17, 18:12:

we just need to use some nice debloating software

Windows itself isn't really bloated. If there is non-essential stuff that you don't want loading on boot, it is easy enough to manually disable said stuff.

yep, i disable it but it's still just keeps checking if you got latest version, and downloads it, and install it, and tries to reboots but keeps installing, and wait till you can switch the power off, and continues installing after rebooting, optimizing, defragging, updates cleaning, done?!.. no, there is another update to check... analysing... even if you will never ever use it and don't even have that installed cause you have uninstalled it using windows official uninstaller.... .... throws up ....

Specific examples please?

let's just mention as an example ms office with only word installed. You will get updates of all the other uninstalled apps. or phone part of the system of the win8.1

robertmo wrote on 2021-06-17, 19:33:

yep, i disable it but it's still just keeps checking if you got latest version, and downloads it, and install it, and tries to reboots but keeps installing, and wait till you can switch the power off, and continues installing after rebooting, optimizing, defragging, updates cleaning, done?!.. no, there is another update to check... analysing... even if you will never ever use it and don't even have that installed cause you have uninstalled it using windows official uninstaller.... .... throws up ....

O&O Shutup, tried you have?
though that wasn't enough the last time I used it because... Windows 10 has the 'Windows Update Medic' service, which re-enables some disabled update settings...