My Windows history:

(Almost) completely skipped 95 (dual booted it for games briefly alongside OS/2 Warp before moving on to Windows 98 shortly after)
Completely skipped Me (for 98SE)
(Almost) completely skiped XP (used it briefly post SP2 before moving on to Windows 7 Beta)
Completely skipped Vista
Completely skipped 8.x

Windows 11 seems to be one to skip for me.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-07-01, 11:40:

xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-07-01, 10:58:

The intel management chip covers that already, with or without the OS' approval.

Do you realize what you just did then?

Stated facts ?
1. The typical Linux fanboy does not know at all what he/she is talking about when talking about Windows' security protections and features
2.The Intel Managment Engine has been reported several times to expose users to security risks, and to be out of the control of the OS. Be it Linux, Windows, or whatever.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-07-01, 08:22:

xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-07-01, 07:49:

Windows is way more secure than you might think...

Why does it need all this hardware security crap play tell?

Are you confusing software & hardware security features used by Windows ? Really ?

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-07-01, 08:22:

My P200mmx with linux on is most likely more secure than Windows 10.

My Windows XP box is way more secure then. Because it's rarely used and has no network. 😜

Windows 11 seems to be one to skip for me.

You can't skip it. Because, for sure, this time it will be last last Windows!

TPM does have security concerns, but yeah if internet backdoors is your concern then you want to be looking at ME/PSP. Talking about ME/PSP is also something you can do without people asking if you're just saying things because you dislike Windows 11 or if you have a genuine concern.

xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-07-01, 06:14:

I wish their app would be more specific about what prevents an update.. .

ZellSF wrote:

10 years from now most laptops than can run Windows 10 will be replaced anyway. The system requirements of Windows 11 is a miniscule ecology crisis compared to the planned obsolescence of laptop manufacturers and the user demand for new hardware (not software), which again is dwarfed by mobile.

In the situation we are in, saying that others are doing worse than us therefore we don't have to do any effort is not responsible.

The implication was that you should spend your energy on the things that actually matter, not do nothing.

Hackaday could instead of writing that sensationalist garbage write another right to repair article:
https://hackaday.com/tag/right-to-repair/
(yes things have happened since June 8th).

Microsoft could make repairability/upgradeability of devices a certification requirement, which likely will have a bigger ecological impact than lowering Windows 11 system requirements.

xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-07-01, 07:49:

Windows is way more secure than you might think...

Well I am NOT your average Linux Fanboy, this is year 51 in PC's for me, Started with CPM, Installed Windows starting with Win 2.0, and most flavors since (except Vista/ME/8), A former Commodore Dealer, who has been running Debian Linux since 2.1, I have worked in Bank Computer Security, Ran Community Schools to teach Computer skills, starting on a Apple 2e running Zardax WP, then Windows 3 Up, Lotus 123, DBaseIV+ & Word Perfect, I was doing Distributive Computing 25 Years ago with a Amiga Lightwave Farm, (which is still here), Currently have Ubuntu Boxes, with a Dual boot win 10 & and a virtual box win 10, so I may have a different view of Windows Security ...

If Windows Security is so good, there would be no need for a Anti-virus, the code would be clean & closed, ( I am not claiming that isn't a Linux issue, just Windows is in same boat), the biggest issue is people Thinking Windows is secure, leaving a XP machine in a back room for 15 years running your "pipeline" or similar industrial machinery, thinking it's OK, to be part of your Network, forgetting (amongst other things) windows firewall is a one way street, once onboard a Virus has free rain to branch out on local network & beyond, but I am not wanting to Pick on Win XP, when Win 10 has it's own legion of Bugs & Flaws .. https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list … Windows-10.html .. Probably why Apache Server does so well, it's free, and secure, and I suspect more popular than a Windows server, even if you paid Thousands to Microsoft to learn how to use, their "easy to use" software .. Also I ran my own PC store for a while, so I know that most Repairs, are charging people to clean a Windows Install of Virus's, that is the other issue, some in Industry like it like that, it keeps the bills paid, Windows Users as Cashflow ...

The thing is, Linux has many thousands watching the code, reporting bugs, making patches, it is a group effort, Microsoft has it's staff, and Microsoft Fanboys Promoting how good it is, which may have been true 35-40 years ago, when there was not much choice available, (Concurrent CPM was good), but in 2021, Windows is old bloated, still carrying code leftovers from last century, & doomed to the scrapheap ..

I personally thought Microsoft would have started their own Linux distro by now, it worked for Apple, Their early OS sucked too, but a Rebuild with Linux helped them to keep ripping off customers (P.S, I owned a Lisa/ A Original 512k Classic/ Mac2SE, So I hate them for a reason) ....

However I digress, A standalone TPM 2.0 board is basically another co-processor, it can Generate Keys, En/De-crypt HDD, Manage Passwords, but bits I noticed are DRM, and platform Integrity, meaning probably if you change HDD/Ram/Video Card etc, the OS will refuse to boot, as the system has changed (Sounds familiar), it is a Full security package, for a PC to work in a TRUSTED system, if it is a Board, not a software version ... Sounds like another pain in the Butt to manage on 1 PC for the average User, let alone a Network of Hundreds, and if that is required to keep Windows going, and Secure, I cannot wait for it to die ...

Oh boy, what a rant.

The thing is, Linux has many thousands watching the code

Ha, that old urban legend again.

Windows firewall is a one way street

Outdated knowledge about Windows, pre XP SP1 era. As expected.

James T Quirk wrote on 2021-07-01, 17:38:

Also I ran my own PC store for a while, so I know that most Repairs, are charging people to clean a Windows Install of Virus's, that is the other issue, some in Industry like it like that, it keeps the bills paid, Windows Users as Cashflow ...

funny how you saying that reminded me of a microsoft presentation about 20 years ago when w2k was released, saying that about 2/3rd of your store's income should come from support if you want to survive/be profitable.

xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-07-01, 17:38:

Oh boy, what a rant. […]
Show full quote

Oh boy, what a rant.

The thing is, Linux has many thousands watching the code

Ha, that old urban legend again.

Windows firewall is a one way street

Outdated knowledge about Windows, pre XP SP1 era. As expected.

I like you, but I fail to see how either of your comments are correct or meaningful by any interpretation.

I was repeating the same mantra when I was a teenager Linux fanboy, word for word. That's all.

Saying that Linux has thousands of people watching the code therefore it's more secure **ahem Heartbleed **ahem, or laugh at Windows for how insecure it is, by describing the flaws of a 20 years old version.
Or even linking to CVE pages, as if that proves any superority, when every product has one, including Linux...

xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-07-01, 17:38:

Oh boy, what a rant.

The thing is, Linux has many thousands watching the code

Ha, that old urban legend again.

+1

Not Linux per se, but..
One of the BSDs had a backdoor for years and nobody noticed, despite the source code being "open".

https://www.theregister.com/2010/12/15/openbs … backdoor_claim/
Not sure if it was this one, though. But chronologically speaking, it fits pretty well.

Anyhow, there are pro and cons. Some people say Open Source is safe, because everybody can check the code.
Other people say Closed Source is safe, because no one can (easily) see the week points.
The truth perhaps lies somewhere in between. Alas, some *nix people usually have their "philosophy".
Or maybe, the word "religion" fits better here. 😀

That being said, it's good that both sides "keep fighting". Because of this, there's still something around for comparison.
Developers do continue to question both philosophies and will continue to self-reflect.

That's a bit off-topic and a bit of a far stretch (my apologies), maybe, but that reminds me of capitalism and communism.
As long as there were two systems, both of them had to improve and "fight" for acceptance.
This allowed people to see inbetween and realize the horrible drawbacks of each system.
Which in turn allowed them to think of a reasonable compromise, an alternative.

Wasn't there major vulnerability discovered in Ubuntu 20.x and few other Linux distros? Something something about privilege escalation.

Sudo for example : https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2021-3156
20 years old vulnerability. Again.

I love Linux, but let's not say it's more secure than Windows... Besides, by saying that, you are comparing a kernel to an operating system. :p

xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-07-01, 18:34:

I was repeating the same mantra when I was a teenager Linux fanboy, word for word. That's all.

Saying that Linux has thousands of people watching the code therefore it's more secure **ahem Heartbleed **ahem, or laugh at Windows for how insecure it is, by describing the flaws of a 20 years old version.
Or even linking to CVE pages, as if that proves any superority, when every product has one, including Linux...

Why Isn't MickySoft Windows running the majority of internet servers pray tell?

That's the problem you were a Linux Fanboi 🤣. Now you are a Windows fanboi..😉

I run Linux at home because I've had absolutely no security problems with Linux out of the box from day one of using it.

My wife swears at windows 10 but doesn't when she needs to use one of my Linux boxes to carry out a task. Why is that?

This is from my own personal experience at being a Linux home user.

Edit: I've also debunked all the crap about modern Linux needs the newest hardware and needing tons of gigbytes to run on my very first Linux system, a 1997 HP P200mmx based system with 256megs of ram. And the Xwindows is slow bull turd.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

I was going to link to a page about confirmation bias, but that suits better.

Calluser2000 wrote:

Why Isn't MickySoft Windows running the majority of internet servers pray tell?

Price of a Windows Server license, for starters... Nothing to do with code quality or security.

Jo22 wrote:

Anyhow, there are pro and cons. Some people say Open Source is safe, because everybody can check the code.
Other people say Closed Source is safe, because no one can (easily) see the week points.

That's an obsolete debate. Both OSes use security in depth principles.

xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-07-01, 19:55:

Calluser2000 wrote:

Why Isn't MickySoft Windows running the majority of internet servers pray tell?

Price of a Windows Server license, for starters... Nothing to do with code quality or security.

Bull. Folk are payed to maintain those Linux servers ffs.

As for the so called myth about nobody is checking Linux/GNU code, that is laughable because that is exactly how Linux was created in the first place 🤣.

Windows has a so called Windows insider program to do something similar. Yet it still has to interrupt users doing tasks every week to update.

All fanbois are really fun to play with,..😉

I was thinking MS has planed to go Carbon Free by 2030, but it seems Windows 11 will stop this Target 😁
It will generate biggest Trash Pile ever made by a Operating System, if they don`t rethink their doings.

It looks like KDE got married with Aqua.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-07-01, 20:11:

Windows has a so called Windows insider program to do something similar. Yet it still has to interrupt users doing tasks every week to update.

The windows insider programs give me more a feeling of being a alpha tester for microsoft.
Though you don't get to see any source code. The error messages, if any, will be hard to understand, track down or even mitigate, and functionality may break with any update, no warnings given.
kinda like the development series of linux kernel releases. Fun times, download, config, compile, hope it boots and doesn't fubar your filesystem or messes up any eeproms on your hardware 😀

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-07-01, 20:11:

Bull. Folk are payed to maintain those Linux servers ffs. […]
Show full quote

xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-07-01, 19:55:

Calluser2000 wrote:

Why Isn't MickySoft Windows running the majority of internet servers pray tell?

Price of a Windows Server license, for starters... Nothing to do with code quality or security.

Bull. Folk are payed to maintain those Linux servers ffs.

As for the so called myth about nobody is checking Linux/GNU code, that is laughable because that is exactly how Linux was created in the first place 🤣.

Windows has a so called Windows insider program to do something similar. Yet it still has to interrupt users doing tasks every week to update.

All fanbois are really fun to play with,..😉

Well, ya know what? Windows update never interrupts me when I am using my computer. I leave it on for weeks at a time. It has only ever auto-rebooted for updates when I leave it running overnight when it is idle which is when the idle / inactive time window is set in Windows for it to allow it to do the updates itself.

Maybe you just don't have a clue on how to use Windows 10 if it is giving you so much trouble.

Just stop using it all together if you hate it so much but please stop being such a little whiner. You sound like a little crybaby who got bullied by the big bad Microsoft.