Interesting topic!

I always saw vintage as "older" than retro.

Sure retro also refers to old stuff, but it's still recent enough to be somewhat hip or cool. I also see it being referred to things we can still remember / grew up with. Like the cassette tape deck or Adidas Jogging High or something like that.

But if you go back further and deal with items you didn't grow up with, then I would start using the term vintage. So something like a gramophone or computer based on tubes. But I would also call computers vintage that came out just before "my time". The very first computers I seen as a child where the Sinclair Spectrum, the Amstrad CPC and the Commodore 64. Some friends also had Atari consoles, though I can't remember exactly what model.

So whatever was out before that, I would consider vintage...

I associate nostalgia also with the term retro. Because you need the personal experiences / memories to have these nostalgic feelings. You know when you hear a gaming tune or see something and it takes you back to when you where a child...

So I simply can't call an Amiga or C64 vintage. They are retro for sure. Still in peoples mind, brings back memories for most people and it's kinda hip and cool.

But if someone would show me a computer using punch cards. Well that would be vintage.

I think vintage is more a matter of design than a matter of age. In my entertainment area I have about a dozen consoles spread out across 2 1/2 decades of gaming, with my Atari 2600 being the oldest and the Wii sitting almost right next to it being the youngest.

So looking over all these consoles, when does vintage end and non-vintage begin? In order of age my consoles down here are: Atari 2600, Colecovision, NES, SMS, Genesis, SNES, Saturn, N64, Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, Wii. To me, based on my collection, "vintage" ends with the Colecovision. Why? Because going back through this list, it's the youngest design that doesn't use typical gamepad controllers, not to mention a huge number of Colecovision games don't have music, whereas most NES games do.

This means as gaming continues to evolve, "vintage" will one day suddenly apply to everything I own up to the N64. The Dreamcast and beyond won't be considered "vintage" at that point because it, and everything newer, supports either progressive scan or HD, and the N64 was the last console to use cartridges or standard-capacity CDs.

At least, this is how *I* see it. Ultimately, I think everyone is going to have their own idea of how to apply that word.

Vintage:
Computers that use punch cards or IBM 3480 tape drives and take up a whole air-conditioned room. And you have to take the elevator to another floor to see the output of your program code.

Electro-mechanical and discrete circuit arcade games like PONG that don't run program code off of ROM chips.

Retro:
The Atari 2600 and 8/16 bit machines from the 80's, including PCs, arcade games and consoles.

Computers from the 90's-00's aren't retro yet, they're just obsolete. 🤣

Cheers for the replies so far, keep em coming 😁

As far as I understand the term retro it's when old stuff gets more often used today and find their way back in a broader niche. That makes old machines just vintage for me and not retro since except for some geeks not really many people are reusing these old machines.
Retrogaming more DOSBox than old dos boxes IMO

I'd consider 'retro' to be anything before the age of 13 of the latest generation of people.

just google definition retro 😀

Retro = old
Vintage = old + good quality

It's a very individualized term. A "retro" for one, may not be a "retro" for another.

Secondly, as time moves on, yesterday's and today's systems will be added into the retro category.

You can roughly call something retro if:

a.It's no longer in production, and not sold by the maker anymore,
b.It's no more in the mainstream use,
c.There's no official active development of software for the system by the maker,
d.The style or design is "out of fashion", or is not the norm (eg. desktop style casing, beige paint, the "hooded" appearance of monitors, circular knobs on the monitors for controls,etc.)
e.Accessories or interfaces that are now defunct (eg. ISA slots, AT-keyboard, etc.) and
f.One must be enthusiastic about it to call it a "vintage" or "retro" item. Otherwise, it might be just old "junk" or "crap" for the rest of the people.

Again, this matter is very subjective. Today's 8-year old kid might find the XBOX or PS2 as a retro item. Or even a Windows2000 GUI might look "retro" for the kid. 😀

EDIT : "Retro" is different. And "Retro Style" is different. There are companies making "new systems based on "retro style" systems. For eg. the Commodore C64-look of the new PCs.

This how I see it
Antique: 30+ years old
Classic: 20/29 years old
Retro Modified: 10+ where the original hardware or software was modified to work on newer more Future/Modern computers
Retro: 10/19 year old
Modern: 2/9 year old
Future: 1 year old
This where I see Retro fit in is when the original hardware or software is no longer being made by manufacturer there for it unavailable or can not be used in Modern Computer Hardware system in stock forum unmodified even with Developer original official patchs or Hardware firmware updates or deivce input is unavailable like let see things like ISA, AGP, MCA, SIPP, 30pin, 72pin, XT, AT and so on.
As for Handheld/Video game console they are specific device for playing video games only they not belong under PC.
To me the word Vintage is used to describe something between 20 and 100* years old which is clearly representitive of the era in which it was produced.

"Retro" has this unfortunate connotation of hip, ironic, socially motivated worship of old / outdated things, which "Vintage" or "Classic" don't have.

Lol, I forgot to mention what I myself consider a retro or a vintage computer!

For me a vintage computer is (similar to how maulwurf explained it) a computer that looks and feels very "alien" compared to modern computers. They are so old that little can compare to modern day computers (like having much older hardware and software).

A retrocomputer is a computer which is considered to be (much) too old by the general populous to be of any use today. If someone were to mention his main computer is a P3 with Windows 98, then I'd consider his computer to be hopelessly outdated.
If someone actually builds a P3 computer for the purpose of reliving past time (could be for gaming or other retro software like old games but also stuff like old Windows beta's) then I consider it a retro computer.

In short, a retrocomputer is:
-A computer that's considered to be very outdated (=obsolete) by modern standards. One good example of this is a 3DFX computer.
-A computer which todays purpose is to satisfy a need for nostalgia and which primary purpose is based on nostalgia. They should be considered fun to use if the fun has a nostalgic value (for instance, playing old Glide games).
-A computer which hardware is getting so old, that it starts becoming a waste to actually throw away instead of it being so old, it better be thrown away (even people who have no love for retrocomputing would consider recycling a complete 486 or a Voodoo card to be a waste. Even they will rather throw away a 5 year old piece of hardware instead of a 15 year old piece of hardware, despite the 15 year old hardware being considerably more obsolete (and thus, useless)).

If someone were to mention his main computer is a P3 with Windows 98, then I'd consider his computer to be hopelessly outdated.

What if that someone don't even have a P3, but a (slightly overclocked) Celeron566 ? 🤣

Classic vintage - anno 1998.
(well, at least if I put back the original Celeron300A, heh)

I should probably replace it(lazy?), but it has my (analog!)TV-card in it(as well as the modem), hence it ends up like the 'main' computer if the number of hrs/day is the deciding factor.

And hdd and mobo still works, 13 years of daily(!) abuse so far.
By now it has kinda turned into a test to see how long it will last.

Until we come up with a standardized agreement regarding these terms, the list will continue growing. Maybe we ought to have a conference and have a final concensus on what the terms and definitions must mean.

Maybe we can come up with something like "The Vogons Declarations and Definitions 2011"!

I can imagine Oxford dictionary modifying it's definitions of retro and vintage terms within computing context with something like "According to Vogons Concensus on Defintions and Terms 2011, "Retro" stands for ........".

VileRancour wrote:

"Retro" has this unfortunate connotation of hip, ironic, socially motivated worship of old / outdated things, which "Vintage" or "Classic" don't have.

I really like this bit and I also mentioned this in my definition.
There are technologies that "pop up" every now and then.

For example you could buy this C64 inside a joystick that goes into your TV. Or these 20-in-1 Sega Genesis consoles. On the Nintendo Wii you can play various arcade classics and classics from other consoles such as the PC Engine and NES.

Now the thing is that these are marketed to the broad public.
Very specific items such a 3DFX voodoo, I don’t know if the broad public would know what to do with that / what it means. Also what kind of product would it be? Because it has to be something you can purchase today in some form that resembles the original.

Now Tomb Raider is something I would call retro. I’m sure we will see the first Tomb Raider on iPhones or other platforms one day (GOG.com maybe). But the fact that this game kick started the 3DFX Voodoo? Not sure if it makes this Retro. It’s certainly a milestone in computer history, but when I think of retro these terms come to mind:

- Pong
- Tetris
- Pac man
- Commodore
- Atari
- SID music
- R-type
- Donkey Kong
- Boom box
- Disco
- Walkman

While I personally would consider a 386 machine retro for my own definition, I don’t think it’s retro for the broad public. A very first Mac (that all in one box) however I would call retro, because it’s instantly recognizable whereas a 386 or a 3DFX voodoo just doesn’t work for me somehow.

I think both definitions have been sorta standardized by the general public in the various computing sites on the net.

Vintage = lotsa 70s and 80s stuff exhibited by the likes of vintagecomputing and similar sites

Retro = age of the item is not necessarily "old"- may be just not produced anymore, e.g. P4/ Athlon XP/ Tualatin, very general term. Can be used for hot-rodded stuff also. Has "cool" & "hip" connotations.

The car enthusiasts world has many sorts of terms for such things- many of these except for terms like "vintage" are loosely based on common understandings of the enthusiasts community.

E.g. "retro" or "ol-skool" means an old car, usually souped up with non period correct parts. "Old" here merely meaning not in production anymore- even 90s cars often fit in this category. Hasn't achieved classic status yet.

"classic" - a better brand of the above with period correctness and originality emphasised. Usually sporty or luxury brand, or both.

"hot rod" - rodded cars from a fixed 20s-early 50s period

"junk", "clunker"- unfortunately theres some cars that nobody wants or considers collectible no matter how old or rare they are/ were 😜

there's tons more, many specific to enthusiasts of tahth particular car/ make. LIke VW Beetles- they were produced from the late 40s to the early 90s. So they're many categories to cater for enthusiasts/ collectors depending on the year of the car, "look", modifications etc- examples being "resto", "resto-mod", "cal-look", "german look", etc.

Similar, very granular categorizations exists for even non-vehicle consumer goods like stereo equipment, furniture, clothes, etc.

Computers being a newer consumer good and with a smaller following of hardcore enthusiasts, have yet to achieve that level of demarcation and categorization. But the general idea is that the community should define the categories themselves just like in other hobbies/ interests.

Good posts! It's hard for me to pick on to quote 🤣!

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I really like this bit and I also mentioned this in my definition. There are technologies that "pop up" every now and then. […]
Show full quote

VileRancour wrote:

"Retro" has this unfortunate connotation of hip, ironic, socially motivated worship of old / outdated things, which "Vintage" or "Classic" don't have.

I really like this bit and I also mentioned this in my definition.
There are technologies that "pop up" every now and then.

For example you could buy this C64 inside a joystick that goes into your TV. Or these 20-in-1 Sega Genesis consoles. On the Nintendo Wii you can play various arcade classics and classics from other consoles such as the PC Engine and NES.

Now the thing is that these are marketed to the broad public.
Very specific items such a 3DFX voodoo, I don’t know if the broad public would know what to do with that / what it means. Also what kind of product would it be? Because it has to be something you can purchase today in some form that resembles the original.

Now Tomb Raider is something I would call retro. I’m sure we will see the first Tomb Raider on iPhones or other platforms one day (GOG.com maybe). But the fact that this game kick started the 3DFX Voodoo? Not sure if it makes this Retro. It’s certainly a milestone in computer history, but when I think of retro these terms come to mind:

- Pong
- Tetris
- Pac man
- Commodore
- Atari
- SID music
- R-type
- Donkey Kong
- Boom box
- Disco
- Walkman

While I personally would consider a 386 machine retro for my own definition, I don’t think it’s retro for the broad public. A very first Mac (that all in one box) however I would call retro, because it’s instantly recognizable whereas a 386 or a 3DFX voodoo just doesn’t work for me somehow.

It's really hard to define what is considered retro or vintage. People use these terms all over the place and maybe there simply isn't a right answer.
Since computer history will evolve quite quickly, I'd be tempted to find a definition that's based more on open definitions instead of a stack of examples (sorry, can't really find better words for what I mean to say in English).

For me a retrocomputer (or a retro rig) is about building a computer from very old parts to relive the past.
What one would consider the past is open to debate, but personally I wouldn't call a 3Ghz P4 retro, even though it might be called retro by someone else!

But I do see that the general consensus seems to be moving towards retrocomputing and retrogaming to be based on significant age in combination with nostalgia.
Is that about right?

Roughly,

Retro - Something that was the norm or fashionable in the past,

Vintage - A retro item that is admired by enthusiasts and collectors,

and

Classic - A retro item that is regarded as a perfrect or a cream of the crop stuff.

All are welcome to correct me.

Now, when these attain the said status, is debatable and is subjective.

Tetrium wrote:

But I do see that the general consensus seems to be moving towards retrocomputing and retrogaming to be based on significant age in combination with nostalgia.
Is that about right?

I agree with that. And I would add a bit of "commercial interest" to the mix...