VOGONS


First post, by badmojo

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Over the years I’ve had some nice hardware accumulate in my collection that I’ve had no immediate use for, and the time has come to make something of it. The nucleus of this build is a Voodoo 3 3500, bought from this eBay seller who seems to have an unlimited supply. Drivers for this card can be found here – I had success with the “3dfx Voodoo3 V1.07.00” driver. There is a ‘3500 TV’ specific driver too, but the generic drivers are recommended by falconfly for stability and performance. The virtues of the Voodoo 3 are well documented here by everyone’s favourite retro hardware blogger, but I’d never tried one myself; up until this point my Glide machine has been my existing PIII, which has been saddled with a barbaric SLI Voodoo 2 and pass-through setup for far too long.

So far the Voodoo 3 experience hasn’t disappointed; the image quality is significantly improved over dual Voodoo 2’s – Quake II has never looked so good – and it’s been rock solid in both performance and stability. The (S)VGA compatibility and output quality have also lived up to the hype - all told it’s a very useful card.

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The other technology I wanted to explore with this new machine is the Vortex 2 chipset, which – being a Creative boy – I’ve never tried. Some people rave about it so I’d like to see for myself how it stacks up against the Live!. The specific card I’m using is a TechWorks Power Vortex 2 SuperQuad, the installation of which was a snap using the provided driver disk, and first impressions are very good. The included demos hint at what the A3D can do and in the games I’ve tried so far - Dues Ex, Quake II, Half-life, etc – it’s performed very well. Whether it’s better than the Live! or not is a question for the ages – I like both.

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The AU8830’s DOS compatibility was also a pleasant surprise. I wasn’t expecting much from a PCI sound card but the Windows 98 installation process added the relevant lines to my AUTOEXEC.BAT (a SET BLASTER and a call to AU30DOS.COM which initialises the card - a 25k TSR but can be loaded high), and it’s worked flawlessly so far. The FM emulation blows chunks as you’d expect from this era card, but the working wavetable header more than makes up for that. The SB Pro support seems solid and sounds great; the only issue I’ve identified is that there was no mixer software provided, and the default levels were way too loud. Vogons to the rescue – vortmix, which works OK (ish).

To test the wavetable header I added a 2MB Diamond daughterboard (pictured next to an NEC XR385 to show how tiny it is) and it too sounds surprisingly good – I think I’ll leave it on.

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Initially I was thinking Super Socket 7 for this build but it turned out that I’d given the relevant motherboard away some time ago. The next candidate was a Socket 370, 667MHz PIII, but that motherboard turned out to be stone cold dead. I finally settled on an MSI MS6199VA - a slot 1 board I’d picked up somewhere along the way. The thought of using Slot 1 has always left me cold for some reason but this is a nice looking board that has 2 lovely ISA slots, and came with an 800MHz Coppermine and 256MB RAM already installed. I was surprised to see a Packard Bell splash screen appear on powering it up, but flashing to the latest BIOS sorted that out.

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The PIII 800EB with both the thermal paste and fan replaced. These cost $851 at introduction apparently! Oh my.

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I’ve been looking for an excuse to use this ‘air conditioner’ and I found it in this build, because the Voodoo3 gets extremely hot. I could of course just strap a fan to Voodoo but that strikes me as inelegant, and this unit efficiently and quietly expels the heat out the back of the case instead of just dispersing it inside. Without the air-con parked next to it, the Voodoo3 was too hot to touch when idle. With it, I can comfortably leave my hand on the heatsink with the card under full load.

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For a HDD I ended up going with a Seagate Medalist 6422, which at 6.4GB is a little on the small side but fine for my purposes. I always enjoy rummaging through my stock of IDE HDD’s – they’re all pulled from the various machines I’ve rescued over the years so I never know what I’m going to find. More often than not there’s a working OS, some games, and the previous owner’s documents to peruse. Nothing much of interest this time unfortunately, but I did discover a drive that was on death’s door, and at this point I was starting to wonder how much of my hardware stockpile is actually useable.

All of this hot hardware is housed in a stylishly unstylish AOpen KF45. I picked this case up for a 10er years ago with a dull-as-dishwater P4 Celeron setup inside - which I promptly removed - and it’s been sitting idle ever since. The CD-ROM and floppy drive are both replacements, the originals having proven themselves unreliable during the Windows 98 installation process.

As painful as this project was at times thanks to all the dead or dying hardware I met along the way, I’m happy with the result. I did plan on filling one or both of those nice ISA slots with sound cards but the Vortex 2 seems to handle DOS sound duties well enough for now – I won’t be able to leave them empty forever though. Also on my to-do list is replace the PSU with something more substantial than the Thermal Master I’m using currently, but otherwise I’m calling this bad boy done.

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Reply 1 of 38, by boxpressed

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Great narrative and photos. The PII/K6-2/Celeron 300A is my favorite era in retro computing. I had a K6-2 350 and paired it with a Riva 128 and later a Banshee. Your 800MHz Coppermine and V3 3500 is a nice combo.

I installed a Voodoo 3 2000 and Vortex 2 today, in fact, in Dell Optiplex GX110 (933 MHz Coppermine PCI only). The Vortex 2 installation added the SET BLASTER line to my autoexec.bat, but put spaces on either side of the equal sign. So it looked like this: SET BLASTER = A220 I10 D3 T4. I think that the spaces caused the command not to be recognized because Quake said that the Blaster variable was not set. When I manually typed in the command without the spaces, the game ran fine.

Reply 3 of 38, by badmojo

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boxpressed wrote:

I installed a Voodoo 3 2000 and Vortex 2 today, in fact, in Dell Optiplex GX110 (933 MHz Coppermine PCI only). The Vortex 2 installation added the SET BLASTER line to my autoexec.bat, but put spaces on either side of the equal sign. So it looked like this: SET BLASTER = A220 I10 D3 T4. I think that the spaces caused the command not to be recognized because Quake said that the Blaster variable was not set. When I manually typed in the command without the spaces, the game ran fine.

The performance difference b/w the PCI and AGP versions is negligible from what I understand - sounds like a nice setup. Weird about the SET BLASTER line, I'll have to double check mine. No games have complained so far but in saying that I haven't tried Quake, just games that use a sound setup program (Duke3D, etc).

It's a shame about the lack of decent mixer software in pure DOS - I guess they figured that most people would be running DOS games through a Windows DOS box, in which the levels are set by the Windows mixer.

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Reply 4 of 38, by boxpressed

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Yes, I have a couple of no-AGP OEM boxes, and a PCI Voodoo 3 is the best solution for me. The V3 2000 overclocks pretty easily to 167MHz, and it posts identical framerates in Quake 2, GLQuake, and Unreal compared to the V3 3000 AGP.

One question: can the Vortex 2 be used as a "pure" DOS card? When I copy the two lines in the autoexec.bat to a DOS bootdisk, I get errors. When I start Quake, the sound is obviously messed up, unlike when I play it after using "Restart in MS-DOS mode" from 98SE.

Reply 5 of 38, by PhilsComputerLab

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Very nice build!

I agree that V3 is better placed in a Slot 1 machine. Vortex 2 has always worked great for me, that's the main reason I keep using and recommending it. With Live! cards I always ran into driver issues, maybe because I have OEM cards, but I never looked into it with more determination.

There are great drivers for the Vortex 2 on Vogons driver archive. Special versions without SB support (for those that don't need or want them) and other tweaks.

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Reply 6 of 38, by badmojo

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boxpressed wrote:

One question: can the Vortex 2 be used as a "pure" DOS card? When I copy the two lines in the autoexec.bat to a DOS bootdisk, I get errors. When I start Quake, the sound is obviously messed up, unlike when I play it after using "Restart in MS-DOS mode" from 98SE.

By 'pure DOS' I mean booting into DOS 7 from a boot menu I've setup in my Autoexec.bat and Config.sys. What else are you loading from your boot disk? Maybe AU30DOS.COM needs HIMEM.SYS or something? This is what I use:

Config.sys:

DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS
files=40
buffers=30
LASTDRIVE=D

Autoexec.bat:

LH C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE
PROMPT $P$G
SET PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\XTGOLD;C:\DRIVERS\FASTVID

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Reply 7 of 38, by blank001

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Very nice build. I actually just built myself a PIII-800E on P3B-F with that exact compaq voodoo 3 3500 and the MX300 for A3D. It's just a great 1999 rig. Perfect for unreal, HL, quake 2, system shock 2. In fact I agree Quake 2 looks a-mazing on the voodoo 3. I had never seen it so good. Half-Life is worth the price of A3D admission. It's really amazing to play it with A3D. Quake 3 on the other hand looks terrible. I think it really needs the high res textures from cards of 2000.

_: K6-III+ 450apz@550, P5A-B, 128Mb CL2, Voodoo 5500 AGP, MX300, AWE64 Gold 32mb, SC-55v2.0
_: Pentium III 1400 S, TUSL2-C, 512Mb CL2, Voodoo 5500 AGP, MX300

Reply 8 of 38, by falloutboy

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boxpressed wrote:

can the Vortex 2 be used as a "pure" DOS card? When I copy the two lines in the autoexec.bat to a DOS bootdisk, I get errors. When I start Quake, the sound is obviously messed up, unlike when I play it after using "Restart in MS-DOS mode" from 98SE.

The DOS driver "AU30DOS.COM" expects the config file "AU30DOS.ini" in the "WINBOOTDIR" variable.
Usually "C:\Windows".
If you use a pure DOS System, you just have to create this directory and copy the file to it.
(not my personal experience!)

Reply 9 of 38, by Skyscraper

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This seems like great system!

badmojo wrote:

The PIII 800EB with both the thermal paste and fan replaced. These cost $851 at introduction apparently! Oh my.

Just before Christmas 1999 my parents got a Fujitsu Siemens system with the then just released P3 800. This was a VERY expensive system at the time but "in Sweden we had a system" where you could order a computer through the company you worked at and pay for it with untaxed money from your salary over a period of 3 years and the state helped to pay some of it. On paper you rented the computer but after the 3 years you could buy it for a symbolic amount of money, like $10. This was all part of a project to make Sweden one of the leading countries when it comes to IT and for once it actually worked, everybody bought computers.

My parents system had a ATI Rage 128 Pro and a Sound Blaster Live! so your system is much better as a gaming system but Im tempted to restore my parents P3 800 as I think I still have all the parts.

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 10 of 38, by PhilsComputerLab

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Badmojo, could you please run a disk benchmark using the attached ATTO?

Just want to see what a period correct drive can do.

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Reply 12 of 38, by Kodai

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I wonder if the EVERCOOL VC-RF and a few ram sinks would fit the V3? I fell in love with that little cooler long ago when I used it to replace the dead fan on my ati 9800 pro. A few years after that I built a new rig around the EVGA 780i SLI FTW mobo and like most found it to fried itself. Sent the board back for a replacement, rebuilt rig with new case with a ton of directed air cooling and that too died a slow heat death. Got a third one and reworked everthing on the board. Enzotech forged copper sinks on the mosfets, and their super beefy forged copper south bridge low profile south bridge fansink. But the north bridge needed cooling since I had to remove the unisink for the south bridge and it had to be low profile as I was doing a triple SLI setup (that's why the other two kept overheating). I remembered that little Evercool and tried it. Perfect fit, and that board is still running an overclocked q6600 at 4 ghz today. Its been a perfect spare/backup workstation for many a year now. I think its 43mm spacing, but have no clue what the spacing on the V3 3500 is. If so, I cant recommend it enough. Pure copper, reasonably lapped surface, great little fan that is not loud, and keeps the card a single slot. If it fit, the only problem would be power. You would have to tap off a PSU line and might have to put a resistor in line unless you have a spare two pin header on the mobo near the video card. Just a thought on cooling. I might have to give that setup a try.

Reply 13 of 38, by badmojo

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philscomputerlab wrote:

Badmojo, could you please run a disk benchmark using the attached ATTO?

Just want to see what a period correct drive can do.

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Reply 14 of 38, by PhilsComputerLab

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Awesome, thank you!

Make sure DMA mode is ticked. It's in device manager > hard drive under one of the options.

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Reply 15 of 38, by Kodai

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Arrrg, I couldn't help myself (i.e. no self control in regards to buying vintage hadware) and bought one of those V3's you linked to on ebay and a EVERCOOL VC-RF pack. If it fits, then great news. I will lapp the surface of the GPU and use a liquid metal TIM. If the mounting holes don't match up, then I will use a tiny dab of thermal epoxy in two corners and a decent TIM in the middle (maybe some Arctic MX-2 or IC-7). Either way, its gonna work, 🤣. I will do thermal tests before and after. If it works as well as I hope it does, then you can extend the life of your V3 by many years and keep it single slot.

On a side note, if it works then when/if I can fix a dead V5 PCI I bought off ebay a few weeks ago I will do the same thing to it. Considering how hot Voodoo's run and so many forum posts I've read from the past few years about them dying in greater numbers, I think we should all consider finding ways to cool them down. Otherwise the remaining few will be sky high in price and not used in a few years.

Reply 16 of 38, by raymangold

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It's also possible to flash a V3 3000 with a V3 1000 BIOS to underclock it so it runs *far* cooler. However, you'll sacrifice performance.

Also, is that a Model A keyboard? (they're rubber dome, but I can't say I see them very often).

Reply 17 of 38, by boxpressed

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Kodai wrote:

Arrrg, I couldn't help myself (i.e. no self control in regards to buying vintage hadware) and bought one of those V3's you linked to on ebay and a EVERCOOL VC-RF pack.

I bought three. 😎

Each additional was only another dollar in shipping. I told myself that I needed to even out the steep initial shipping charge!

Reply 18 of 38, by Kodai

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boxpressed wrote:

I bought three. 😎

Each additional was only another dollar in shipping. I told myself that I needed to even out the steep initial shipping charge!

🤣, I too thought about buying a few of them. But I already have a few V2's (two in SLI of course) and a V1, a V3 3000, and a dead V5. The V1 is in my DOS rig, and I have no use for the V3 3000 other than as a backup card. So I was able to keep myself from spending extra. Besides, I had to get a couple of those Evercool kits and that ate up the price of getting extra V3's.

Reply 19 of 38, by badmojo

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raymangold wrote:

Also, is that a Model A keyboard? (they're rubber dome, but I can't say I see them very often).

Yes it is - I bought it new in the box a while back for a buck! Yes it's rubber dome, but I need a rest from the clacking of my model M sometimes.

What do you know about them? Searching the interwebs didn't turn up anything much. It has a manufactured date of 27-FEB-96.

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