VOGONS


First post, by psychz

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After playing some games in DOSBox, I just had to build an all-around machine for the early nineties era, mainly for games but also for the occasional Windows 3.11 app. "Nothing special" as in, no 233MHz P-MMX and no 3dfx products in there 😜

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Specifications:
- Motherboard: Soyo SY-5EAS
(Chipset: ETEQ 6618 [VIA Apollo VPX])
512kb cache
- CPU: Intel Pentium 100MHz
- RAM: 32MB EDO
- HDD: Quantum 6GB
- GPU: Diamond Stealth 64 PCI (S3 Vision964 w/ 4MB VRAM)
- Sound: Labway Yamaha OPL3-SAx PnP card (looks like the Audician 32 Plus?)
- No 3D accelerator (regarding my builds, that's actually a feature!)
- ODD: Some LG cdrw/dvd unit
- NIC: Micronet RTL8139C-based

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Could be wrong on this one, but decided to go with an 100MHz Pentium, to have enough power to play games like Terminal Velocity acceptably, but at the same time, not to stray too far from the previous generation as long as compatibility is concerned, even if this means to use cache disablers and slowdown tools.

The setup/notes
This particular case doesn't look early 90ish, however it hosted a P166 MMX with a dead HDD, so I had to "make some changes" over there 😈 The current HDD is set up as 3 different partitions, C: which contains MS-DOS 6.22, Windows for Workgroups 3.11, Office 4.3 and some other Windows-based software, along with XingMPEG Player, QuickTime, Delphi 1, WinPlay3, WinTune and other useless junk 😜 , D: which contains DOS apps (PCTools 9, benchmarks etc), and E: which contains DOS games. I also made a basic boot menu for XMS/EMS selection. It's noteworthy that it gets 617kb of free conventional memory when booting with XMS, as almost everything (UniVBE, ms mouse driver, OAKCDROM.SYS, MSCDEX, doskey) are successfully loaded high and the Yamaha initialization tool isn't even a TSR, it appears to unload itself after configuring the card! This sound card seems a bit noisy, but SETUPSA.EXE is much better than Creative's loader for the jumperless SB16s, at least regarding memory footprint. The Stealth 64 PCI looked a bit bad as some GPU chip's legs were broken, but a little solder here and there helped it come to life again. While I haven't set up Windows networking yet (no need to atm), mTCP's FTP server has helped me transfer most of what's finally in there and made moving games and drivers easily. It works nicely with Realtek's packet driver. I've been running stuff like MS Space Simulator, Epic Pinball, Terminal Velocity, Microsoft Fury3 on this box all day long 🤣

Problems I came across:
- The whole "NIC for mTCP" ordeal took me some serious head-scratching, due to the fact that the CPU-to-PCI write buffer BIOS option caused random hangs in Windows with just about every RTL8139-based card I had, in every PCI slot I tested, even without any WFW3.11 NIC-related driver installed. With this setting disabled, apparently the lock-ups went away.
- This one, which was really just me running Windows at 800x600/16.4 million colors 😊 Actually I have yet to stumble upon anything that would need more than 256 colors, and even Fury3, as is the case with many games, itself suggests that it be run at 256 for better performance.

Last edited by psychz on 2016-05-23, 21:08. Edited 1 time in total.
Stojke wrote:

Its not like components found in trash after 20 years in rain dont still work flawlessly.

:: chemical reaction :: athens in love || reality is absent || spectrality || meteoron || the lie you believe

Reply 1 of 12, by brassicGamer

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I dunno about nothing special - I would call this the shit hot for '94 build, as a Voodoo wouldn't have been available yet 😉

That program manager icons limitation is an interesting one - is it the same for NT, I wonder? And I have the same sound card - an excellent all-rounder, especially considering the lack of TSR. Any chance of some internal pictures?

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Reply 2 of 12, by clueless1

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You got this thing spec'd out brilliantly! You've definitely got some flexibility in there if you use setmul to manipulate cache, probably down to a slow 386, and if your CPU supports test register (TR) options, you can probably get it to perform like a 486 too. Nicely done!

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 5 of 12, by mmx_91

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Nice classic rig!

A good example of a top computer before the introduction of 3D graphics, also very handy for late DOS games 😀. I specially remember the case, very common at least in this area around 1996-1997.

Reply 6 of 12, by Sutekh94

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Pentium 100... Right in the sweet spot for DOS games, in my opinion. That whole rig's begging for late DOS games to be installed.

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Reply 7 of 12, by zstandig

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That case looks almost identical to my own. I tried putting an early socket 370 motherboard in it. Powers on but shows nothing on the screen, screen may be too new...

Any way, hope you have better luck with yours.

Reply 8 of 12, by psychz

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Thanks for the comments guys! Yes, these parts were chosen with flexibility in mind, after all I thought of it as a DOSBox replacement! However I haven't tested it yet with later DOS games to see how it performs. Never had a P100 back then; went straight from a DX4 build to a plastic 200MHz MMX+S3 ViRGE/DX where I used to play DOS games under Win95 😜 But first, as soon as I get some free time this week, I am going to run a couple of early speed-sensitive games, mainly to check the available fixes and how well they work.

@brassicGamer: Yes this sound card is indeed a good all-rounder, haven't ran into any issues as of yet, though I had the Win3.11 driver GPF on me with Tempest from MS Arcade. Don't know if the same icon limitation exists in NT, but it should definitely not be there with the shell update hehe

@clueless1: Interesting! Could you please give me more info on the test registers?

@zstandig: This one is an AT case, though I have come across several ATX ones with the same design. I even have such a case with a P2B/P-II 450MHz/Voodoo3 AGP setup inside. Hope you resolve your problems and get your 370 up and running!

Photos of the insides are coming soon, as well as screenshots of diagnostics.

Stojke wrote:

Its not like components found in trash after 20 years in rain dont still work flawlessly.

:: chemical reaction :: athens in love || reality is absent || spectrality || meteoron || the lie you believe

Reply 9 of 12, by clueless1

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psychz wrote:

@clueless1: Interesting! Could you please give me more info on the test registers?

The link in my signature takes you to my thread on testing systems with cache disabled. If you'd like to contribute, the instructions and link to the online spreadsheet to add your results to is in the opening post. But, here's some info specifically on TR:
gerwin's setmul utility thread: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6+7+8 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86
Specifically:

-Pentium P54C test register "TR12" options. Parameters: BPD - Disable Branch Prediction VPD - Disable V Pipeline L1DX - Disable […]
Show full quote

-Pentium P54C test register "TR12" options. Parameters:
BPD - Disable Branch Prediction
VPD - Disable V Pipeline
L1DX - Disable L1 cache exclusively
CCD - Disable L1 code cache
DCD - Disable L1 data cache
PFE - Pentium Features Enable; Resets the above TR12 options to default.

and, some comments from gerwin on TR support:
Re: What's up with all those Setmul switches?

Lastly, some results I came up with using these parameters:

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The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 10 of 12, by psychz

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Wow, thanks! Will test and report back tomorrow!

Stojke wrote:

Its not like components found in trash after 20 years in rain dont still work flawlessly.

:: chemical reaction :: athens in love || reality is absent || spectrality || meteoron || the lie you believe

Reply 11 of 12, by Tetrium

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clueless1 wrote:

You got this thing spec'd out brilliantly! You've definitely got some flexibility in there if you use setmul to manipulate cache, probably down to a slow 386, and if your CPU supports test register (TR) options, you can probably get it to perform like a 486 too. Nicely done!

Agreed. Sometimes it's the simple things that make something brilliant 😀.

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My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 12 of 12, by psychz

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Sorry for being late but due to space constraints I had to put this box away for a while, but it's back up and running! Apparently this CPU does support TR12 commands... More testing and inside pics soon!

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Stojke wrote:

Its not like components found in trash after 20 years in rain dont still work flawlessly.

:: chemical reaction :: athens in love || reality is absent || spectrality || meteoron || the lie you believe