Utimate Doom, better sound possible under Dosbox 0.74?

Having problems with a specific game or application? Post your problems here!

Utimate Doom, better sound possible under Dosbox 0.74?

Postby retrogamerguy1997 » 2017-9-16 @ 01:50

After following some some instructions on restoring the Steam release of this game, I have been able to run it under vanilla dosbox 0.74 and change sound settings so that Doom will use General MIDI. My issue is that I don't think it sounds as good as it should; I've listened to clips from the first level played on a SC-88 and on that it sounds amazing. Under dosbox though, MIDI emulation is kind of meh. Is there any way to get better sound?
retrogamerguy1997
Newbie
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 2017-9-16 @ 01:43

Re: Utimate Doom, better sound possible under Dosbox 0.74?

Postby Osprey » 2017-9-16 @ 05:05

Are you using any soundfonts or are you just using your soundcard drivers and nothing else? If you're on Windows, I recommend installing VirtualMIDISynth and adding the Roland SC-55 presets soundfont in its configuration program. That's the best (in simplicity and quality) combination that I've found to get much better MIDI playback in games (including those in DOSBox).
Osprey
Member
 
Posts: 257
Joined: 2017-7-27 @ 21:32

Re: Utimate Doom, better sound possible under Dosbox 0.74?

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-9-16 @ 06:47

I have been able to run it under vanilla dosbox 0.74 and change sound settings so that Doom will use General MIDI... Under dosbox though, MIDI emulation is kind of meh

DosBox does not emulate General Midi. It simply sends midi messages to the default midi out port (that is usually MS GM/GS soft synth in Windows). You have many better options than that (Soundfonts, VSTi plugins):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CdJ7sEt8UM&t=23s

Currently the most authentic one (regarding SC-88 emulation) is Sound Canvas VA. It's not free but there is a trial version to download:
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=46111
User avatar
Falcosoft
Oldbie
 
Posts: 873
Joined: 2016-5-21 @ 13:46
Location: Pécs, Hungary

Re: Utimate Doom, better sound possible under Dosbox 0.74?

Postby zirkoni » 2017-9-16 @ 10:02

You might also want to try using the Gravis Ultrasound option. It sounds pretty good in DOOM.
User avatar
zirkoni
Member
 
Posts: 181
Joined: 2014-7-17 @ 08:54

Re: Utimate Doom, better sound possible under Dosbox 0.74?

Postby gdjacobs » 2017-9-16 @ 13:46

Falcosoft wrote:[Vanilla] DosBox does not emulate General Midi. It simply sends midi messages to the default midi out port (that is usually MS GM/GS soft synth in Windows). You have many better options than that (Soundfonts, VSTi plugins):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CdJ7sEt8UM&t=23s

Currently the most authentic one (regarding SC-88 emulation) is Sound Canvas VA. It's not free but there is a trial version to download:
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=46111


FTFY. The mainline DOSBox tree doesn't feature any GM or LA emulation, but some alternate builds incorporate the Fluidsynth and/or Munt engines.
User avatar
gdjacobs
l33t++
 
Posts: 6316
Joined: 2015-11-03 @ 05:51
Location: The Great White North

Re: Utimate Doom, better sound possible under Dosbox 0.74?

Postby retrogamerguy1997 » 2017-9-16 @ 16:14

Osprey wrote:Are you using any soundfonts or are you just using your soundcard drivers and nothing else?


I'm just using the onboard audio.

Osprey wrote:If you're on Windows, I recommend installing VirtualMIDISynth and adding the Roland SC-55 presets soundfont in its configuration program. That's the best (in simplicity and quality) combination that I've found to get much better MIDI playback in games (including those in DOSBox).


Okay, thanks man.

Falcosoft wrote:
I have been able to run it under vanilla dosbox 0.74 and change sound settings so that Doom will use General MIDI... Under dosbox though, MIDI emulation is kind of meh

DosBox does not emulate General Midi. It simply sends midi messages to the default midi out port (that is usually MS GM/GS soft synth in Windows). You have many better options than that (Soundfonts, VSTi plugins):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CdJ7sEt8UM&t=23s


So it's not dosbox that's the issue, but just the built in Microsoft MIDI driver?

Falcosoft wrote:Currently the most authentic one (regarding SC-88 emulation) is Sound Canvas VA. It's not free but there is a trial version to download:
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=46111


thanks, too bad I can't afford the full version

zirkoni wrote:You might also want to try using the Gravis Ultrasound option. It sounds pretty good in DOOM.


How does it sound compared to the MIDI driver built-in to Windows?
retrogamerguy1997
Newbie
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 2017-9-16 @ 01:43

Re: Utimate Doom, better sound possible under Dosbox 0.74?

Postby Osprey » 2017-9-16 @ 22:00

retrogamerguy1997 wrote:So it's not dosbox that's the issue, but just the built in Microsoft MIDI driver?


That's correct. That's why I recommended installing VirtualMIDISynth, which is a better MIDI driver because it allows you to use higher quality instrument samples (soundfonts). When installed, it becomes the default MIDI driver and apps that use MIDI (including DOSBox) use it instead of the built-in Microsoft driver and samples.

Interestingly, the Microsoft driver uses an actual Sound Canvas sound set from Roland, itself. It's just that it's from 1996 and inferior to newer sets (like the SC-55 soundfont that I linked you to and the expensive SC VA). You can find the following file under Windows\SysWOW64\drivers (or Windows\System32\drivers):

Code: Select all
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
GMREADME.TXT
Copyright (c) 1998-2000 Microsoft Corporation.  All Rights Reserved.
------------

The GM.DLS file contains the Roland SoundCanvas Sound Set which is
protected under the following copyright:
Roland GS Sound Set/Microsoft (P) 1996 Roland Corporation U.S. 
The Roland SoundCanvas Sound Set is licensed under Microsoft's
End User License Agreement for use with Microsoft operating
system products only.  All other uses require a separate written
license from Roland.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Osprey
Member
 
Posts: 257
Joined: 2017-7-27 @ 21:32

Re: Utimate Doom, better sound possible under Dosbox 0.74?

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-9-17 @ 01:02

Or as an alternative approach instead of VirtualMIDISynth you can install LoopMidi (virtual midi port) and use FSMP as an universal Soundfont + VST(i) host.
In this topic Phil has written a howto about this: http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=53855
I t has the following advantages compared to VirtualMIDISynth:
1. You do not have to change DosBox's output to use different synths like Bassmidi with soundfonts, SYXG-50, Munt Vsti, SC-VA. You can change the synths in real time with FSMP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSk9S1bkRS8
2. You can use Capital Tone Fallback (CTF) to correct instruments in case of badly programmed games/Midi files:
http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?p=502706#p502706
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrKfDTjvKDs
3. You can test more soundfonts at once by changing them real time (even when playing a game within DosBox):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBhTH1Z9s4I
User avatar
Falcosoft
Oldbie
 
Posts: 873
Joined: 2016-5-21 @ 13:46
Location: Pécs, Hungary

Re: Utimate Doom, better sound possible under Dosbox 0.74?

Postby retrogamerguy1997 » 2017-9-17 @ 02:39

Falcosoft wrote:Or as an alternative approach instead of VirtualMIDISynth you can install LoopMidi (virtual midi port) and use FSMP as an universal Soundfont + VST(i) host.
In this topic Phil has written a howto about this: http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=53855
I t has the following advantages compared to VirtualMIDISynth:
1. You do not have to change DosBox's output to use different synths like Bassmidi with soundfonts, SYXG-50, Munt Vsti, SC-VA. You can change the synths in real time with FSMP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSk9S1bkRS8
2. You can use Capital Tone Fallback (CTF) to correct instruments in case of badly programmed games/Midi files:
http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?p=502706#p502706
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrKfDTjvKDs
3. You can test more soundfonts at once by changing them real time (even when playing a game within DosBox):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBhTH1Z9s4I



I'll have to check out his guide then.

EDIT: Things sound good now.
retrogamerguy1997
Newbie
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 2017-9-16 @ 01:43

Re: Utimate Doom, better sound possible under Dosbox 0.74?

Postby Osprey » 2017-9-17 @ 04:01

Falcosoft wrote:I t has the following advantages compared to VirtualMIDISynth:
1. You do not have to change DosBox's output to use different synths like Bassmidi with soundfonts, SYXG-50, Munt Vsti, SC-VA. You can change the synths in real time with FSMP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSk9S1bkRS8


I haven't had to change DOSBox at all to use VirtualMIDISynth with it. It just works on default settings.

Falcosoft wrote:3. You can test more soundfonts at once by changing them real time (even when playing a game within DosBox):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBhTH1Z9s4I


You can change soundfonts in VirtualMIDISynth in real time. I just tested it with a DOSBox game, even.
Osprey
Member
 
Posts: 257
Joined: 2017-7-27 @ 21:32

Re: Utimate Doom, better sound possible under Dosbox 0.74?

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-9-17 @ 04:41

I haven't had to change DOSBox at all to use VirtualMIDISynth with it. It just works on default settings.


You have misunderstood my sentence. I did not say you hat to change Dosbox's config to use VirtualMIDISynth.
Instead I said:
You do not have to change DosBox's output to use different synths like Bassmidi with soundfonts, SYXG-50, Munt Vsti, SC-VA

So I meant if you do not only want to use soundfonts but you also want to use e.g. Munt for MT-32 games or you want to use e.g. SC-VA or SYXG-50 you have to change DosBox's config to use other midi ports than VirtualMIDISynth. In case of Loppmidi + FSMP you do not have to change the config of DosBox in order to use OTHER synths (than Bassmidi + Soundfonts).
I hope it is clear now. Look at the video I have referred to earlier to understand what I meant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CdJ7sEt8UM&t=23s

You can change soundfonts in VirtualMIDISynth in real time. I just tested it with a DOSBox game, even.

OK, Sorry I have not checked VMS nowadays. Then I will modify the 3rd point:
3. You can test more soundfonts at once more easily (by pressing of a keyboard shortcut) without modifying the soundfont stack configuration.
Last edited by Falcosoft on 2017-9-17 @ 05:28, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Falcosoft
Oldbie
 
Posts: 873
Joined: 2016-5-21 @ 13:46
Location: Pécs, Hungary

Re: Utimate Doom, better sound possible under Dosbox 0.74?

Postby zirkoni » 2017-9-17 @ 04:45

retrogamerguy1997 wrote:How does it sound compared to the MIDI driver built-in to Windows?

Here's a gameplay video with GUS music: https://youtu.be/Nc7VMcYKN1E
User avatar
zirkoni
Member
 
Posts: 181
Joined: 2014-7-17 @ 08:54


Return to DOSBox Games/Apps

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests