VOGONS


First post, by kreats

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My Abit BF6 based p3 system is starting to hang on startup randomly so I'm guessing the caps need replacing.

Would it be safe to assume the caps I need are the same as for the BE6?

A kit is for the BE6 is listed here.

So I'm guessing:

11 of these (1500uF)

and

11 of these (1000uF)

As I'm unsure about this sort of thing - I thought I'd check here before I place any orders (are poly caps better for instance?).

PS: quite a few of my boards are exhibiting this sort of behaviour (random no-post) - I really hope it is only the caps.

Reply 1 of 14, by PCBONEZ

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Not active over there anymore but I'm a long time senior member of the BCN forum.
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/member.php?u=511
I've also recapped 100's of motherboards.

BF6 and BE6 might be the same or might be completely different.
If the kit worked for both boards he would probably have listed it as such.

He sells excellent caps but IMHO he's a little bit 'pricey'. (Sorry TC.)
Regardless, for small quantities he may be the best choice after you take into account shipping charges.

I need to know what the old caps are before I can compare specs.
- Please describe them.
I need the brand and series to find anything out. Photos can help.

A poly upgrade in the VRM 'may' be beneficial but it's serious overkill anywhere else on the board.

I am off to find some pics of this board.
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Reply 2 of 14, by PCBONEZ

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Abit got a double whammy back in the day.
At first they were using cheap Ch/Tw caps (like many others) and they took that hit.
Then they went all Japanese caps but had the misfortune of using a lot of the Nichicon HM and HN which were later found to be defective due to a manufacturing goof.
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Last edited by PCBONEZ on 2015-12-04, 00:25. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 3 of 14, by swaaye

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I bought a BE6-II kit from badcaps years ago for my BF6. The BE6-II is the same as the BF6 aside from having a Highpoint chip (BF6 gets +1 PCI). There are a couple of tiny electrolytic caps that the kit does not include. Down by the southbridge IIRC.

Reply 4 of 14, by PCBONEZ

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swaaye wrote:

There are a couple of tiny electrolytic caps that the kit does not include. Down by the southbridge IIRC.

The tiny caps don't usually need replaced although it's not a horrible idea if they are OST brand or Nichicon VR.

I've seen tiny Nichicon VR bloat en masse on older Intel branded motherboards. (Slot 1, skt 423, early skt 478)
They are only rated for 85˚C and should not have been used on motherboards to start with.
To make matters worse during the time VR were used most cases were not particularly well cooled.

Is rare but I have seen bad 22uF OST's near a chipset kill a whole board.

[adding]
I don't remember the specific model(s) ATM, but some Dell's in SFF/USFF chassis has issues with 22uF going bad due to poor airflow.
These were a generation or two after the famous SX/GX - 260/270/280 problems.
I think it was the Optiplex 745's. Not 100% sure.
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Last edited by PCBONEZ on 2015-12-04, 01:45. Edited 1 time in total.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
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Reply 5 of 14, by kreats

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Yeah they are basically the same board - that's good to hear swaaye.

ok pulled a board and had a look:

11x 1500uF 6.3V Tayeh
3x 100uF 10V Tayeh
7x 1000uF 10V Jackcon
4x 1000uF 6.3V Tayeh
2x 22uF 16V Tayeh (next to battery)

I've got two BF6 boards to repair & am happy with the configuration apart from the no-posting (it has got really bad of recent). Probably about $30 AUD to recap two boards, which isn't great but oh well.

Used to have an asus p3b (which is probably a better board) but I killed it accidentally unfortunately.

Reply 6 of 14, by PCBONEZ

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Oh geez, those are all crap.

Tayeh is a "mystery brand". No one has figured out who actually made them and datasheets don't exist.

FYI: *On motherboards* 6.3v and 10v are interchangeable as they are both on 5v or less.
That does not apply to other kinds of electronics because someone might have used something like 9v for something.
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GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
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Reply 7 of 14, by PCBONEZ

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I would not worry about the 100uF or 22uF unless you have problems after replacing the others. You probably won't.

Given there are no specs to go by and the vintage I would use something like Nichicon HM, Sanyo/Suncon WG or Rubycon MBZ.
Lesser grade caps might work fine but lacking datasheets for the original caps those are safe bets.
[edit] Panasonic FJ would also work.
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GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
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Reply 8 of 14, by kreats

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Thanks for the research PCBONEZ

Nichi HM seems to be out of stock/low stock at element14 for both 1500uF and 1000uF (in 8mm versions).

An alternative given by element14 is the Panasonic FR series 1500uF, 1000uF. Would these be a good substitute?

Also, how about the Rubycon ZLJ linked above? Are they any good?

Reply 9 of 14, by PCBONEZ

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kreats wrote:
Thanks for the research PCBONEZ […]
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Thanks for the research PCBONEZ

Nichi HM seems to be out of stock/low stock at element14 for both 1500uF and 1000uF (in 8mm versions).

Alternatives listed seem to point to the Panasonic FR series 1500uF, 1000uF. Would these be a good substitute?

Also, how about the Rubycon ZLJ linked above? Are they any good?

ZLJ is an odd series because their ESR is consistent with Rubycon ZL, Sanyo/Suncon WX, Nichicon HD and Chemicon KZE.
(Those are about 2 grades lower than what I suggested.)
BUT, the ZLJ ripple rating is darn close to those I suggested.
ZLJ is a pretty new series and the others I've mentioned have been around for ages.

The Rubycon ZL, Sanyo/Suncon WX, Nichicon HD and Chemicon KZE are most likely perfectly fine on that board. (And so would KZJ be.).
Any of those (except the KZJ which is too new) were commonly seen on early P3 boards, particularly those with lots of caps like yours.
In other words they should be fine. I was failing up a little bit to keep away from the lower limit - so to speak.

I will make up a little chart and post it so what I'm saying makes more sense.
Might be a little bit. The wife is in my hair.
.

Last edited by PCBONEZ on 2015-12-04, 04:04. Edited 2 times in total.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
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Reply 11 of 14, by PCBONEZ

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Okay, the attached is a very slimmed down version of a large comparison chart I made for my own use.
The 'Grades' are my own creation. I don't think anyone else uses them. Probably because I've never published them before. 🤣
The grades make it easier to have a conversation about caps, so here they are.
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To compare (cross-reference) one brand/series to a different series disregard the uF and voltage and look at the can size.
This is because -within a series- all with the same can size have the same ESR and Ripple ratings.
In my full blown chart I use 8x20mm, 10x20mm and 12.5x20mm as those are common and found in most series.
Your board appears to only use 8mm so I'm only showing 8x20mm here.
The caps are (generally) sorted by ESR first, then Ripple. Those that seem out of place are so because the 10mm sort is different.
Endurance is disregarded for the grades because from a practical (real world) standpoint it's not a useful number.
- As you can see the ZLJ is an odd one.
In the 8mm sizes ZLJ series ESR is consistent with grade G but their Ripple is way up to grade C.
Not shown but their 10mm ESR is worse than grade G and their Ripple would put them in grade F.
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Anything grade G or better should work fine on your board. (I doubt any Tayeh was better than Grade G.)
If you are going to go all the way to grade A or B then you might be better off going with solid polymer with an ESR around 10 mOhms.
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Caps_Compare_1.jpg
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ESR is in milliohms and Ripple in milliamps.
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GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
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You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 12 of 14, by PCBONEZ

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There is another good series newer than my chart I that should mention because they are available in several places now.
Panasonic FR series. - They are grade E.
Very similar to Panasonic FM series but they tend to have a smaller can size for a given uF so in many cases they fit on a board better than FM.
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GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 13 of 14, by kreats

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I think I will have to go with the Panasonic FR series - everything else seems too hard to source (all this choice is quite a stress!).

Before I order, is there anything wrong with these specific selections?

1500uF Panasonic FR eeu-fr1a152l
1000uF Panasonic FR eeu-fr1a102l (10V ver of the one linked above)

The only other consideration seems to be lead spacing.. I think 3.5mm is the right choice?

PS: I can get these a fair bit cheaper at mouser (1000uF, 1500uF) so that's prob where I'll place my order (min order is $60 though, oh well).

Reply 14 of 14, by PCBONEZ

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kreats wrote:
I think I will have to go with the Panasonic FR series - everything else seems too hard to source (all this choice is quite a st […]
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I think I will have to go with the Panasonic FR series - everything else seems too hard to source (all this choice is quite a stress!).

Before I order, is there anything wrong with these specific selections?

1500uF Panasonic FR eeu-fr1a152l
1000uF Panasonic FR eeu-fr1a102l (10V ver of the one linked above)

The only other consideration seems to be lead spacing.. I think 3.5mm is the right choice?

PS: I can get these a fair bit cheaper at mouser (1000uF, 1500uF) so that's prob where I'll place my order (min order is $60 though, oh well).

Those should do perfectly well.

3.5mm lead-space is the standard for 8mm caps. I don't recall ever seeing anything else.
5mm lead-space is the standard for 10mm caps. I have seen some 10mm with 3.5mm lead-space but not many.
.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.