havli wrote on 2024-04-24, 20:41:Most of them were manufactured in 1998 or later, sure... but V2 was anounced in November 1997, so for me it would be good fit for 1997 PC, along with PII 300.
I suppose this depends on how one defines "period correct". I always go by when the hardware was released which puts the Voodoo2 in 1998.
jheronimus wrote on 2024-04-24, 13:59:IMO Win95 might be better as long as you use something like OSR2.1 — just needs less RAM, works faster because it doesn't have IE integration like OSR2.5 or Win98.
The 'IE integration' is the 'Windows Desktop Update' which is included with IE4; I'm pretty sure it can be installed on any release of Win95 (and is built-in to Win98).
I might be wrong about this, but I think it's not actually included with OSR 2.5 either, but OSR 2.5 also came with an IE4 CD in the box. Or at least that's my vague recollection of what a Win95 "IBM" (really Acer) in early 1998 had come with, pretty sure you had to install the Windows Desktop Update and IE4 separately...
I found this Win95 upgrade guide and will try it. Gives you IE5.5
http://deltacity.stare.pro
VivienM wrote on 2024-04-24, 22:24:I might be wrong about this, but I think it's not actually included with OSR 2.5 either
It is, but the installation can be skipped by hitting Alt-F4 when the prompt to install pops up.
Shponglefan wrote on 2024-04-24, 22:41:VivienM wrote on 2024-04-24, 22:24:I might be wrong about this, but I think it's not actually included with OSR 2.5 either
It is, but the installation can be skipped by hitting Alt-F4 when the prompt to install pops up.
Oh, sure, it's just that IIIRC 2.5 = 2.1 + IE4 update (no other differences). So it's a simpler recommendation
jheronimus wrote on 2024-04-25, 14:18:Shponglefan wrote on 2024-04-24, 22:41:VivienM wrote on 2024-04-24, 22:24:I might be wrong about this, but I think it's not actually included with OSR 2.5 either
It is, but the installation can be skipped by hitting Alt-F4 when the prompt to install pops up.
Oh, sure, it's just that IIIRC 2.5 = 2.1 + IE4 update (no other differences). So it's a simpler recommendation
Oh, so maybe I'm remembering wrong and the one I had with the IE4 CD was 2.1...
OSR2 added FAT32, no? Which one came with the USB support? Was that 2.1? I was thinking that was 2.5 but maybe that's where I am wrong...
VivienM wrote on 2024-04-25, 16:55:Oh, so maybe I'm remembering wrong and the one I had with the IE4 CD was 2.1...
OSR2 added FAT32, no? Which one came with the USB support? Was that 2.1? I was thinking that was 2.5 but maybe that's where I am wrong...
Yeah, I think OSR2 brings FAT32, OSR2.1 = OSR2+USB support, OSR2.5 = OSR2.1+IE4
So considering USB is not that usable on Soc7 and will even hurt performance, might as well go for OSR2
According to the Wikipedia page on Windows 95, OSR 2.5 also includes DirectX 5.0.
havli wrote on 2024-04-24, 20:41:Shponglefan wrote on 2024-04-24, 15:31:Voodoo2 is a 1998 card anyway... 😉
Most of them were manufactured in 1998 or later, sure... but V2 was anounced in November 1997, so for me it would be good fit for 1997 PC, along with PII 300.
You wouldn't have been able to buy Voodoo 2 in 1997 anyway. Why deceive yourself?
However, it is not necessary to assemble a completely period-correct build if you want to have Voodoo 2. Just use it and enjoy. Retro computing is a hobby, you can do what you want.
I have similar 1997 build with 1998 motherboard. But who cares? Maybe someday I'll replace it with the other one but right now I don't care.
Kruton 9000 wrote on 2024-04-26, 09:44:But who cares?
I do 😀)
And thank God Voodoo 2 was actually announced in 1997, now it is perfect, 🤣
BTW, I bought ECS P5TX-Bpro motherboard and Pentium MMX 200 CPU for this build. Not delivered yet.
Unexpected problem, "Keyboard is locked out - unlock the key" after POST.
Motherboard is ECS P5TX-Bpro V2.0. https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/ecs-p5tx-bpro/
Manual has J22: Case Features Connector / Pin 11-15 header, "Keyboard Lock".
Pin 11 reads +5V, others read zero V.
Nothing wired to connector results in the "Keyboard is locked out" message.
Shorting Pin 11 to any other pin (12-15) results in same "Keyboard is locked out" message.
This is generic pinout for Keylock connector: https://old.pinouts.ru/Motherboard/AtLedKeylock_pinout.shtml
Shorting pin 14 (supposedly Pin 4, "Key Switch", from the above) to any other connector does not unlock it (often reboots the board).
Tried resetting BIOS few times.
Help 😀
Sorted, standoff screws were shorting something. No KB error when MB is removed from case.
For me this is all about late dos and early Glide games.
I'd probably gone with a Voodoo 1 as it's bit more compatible but if you don't intend to play any games on the list then a V2 is fine
Voodoo 2 DOS Glide compatibility matrix
I could never get the hang of Decent but do love the music. I'd swap the ESS for a Yamaha card as think Decent sounds best with XG Midi but again I'm nit picking and wouldn't actually buy the hardware unless I had another system planned where I could use the ESS.
Agree with Win95, I see no benefit upgrading to Win98.
Likewise if trying to talk to a Mac, FTP is the way to go
When all said and done though its a good build and should serve you well as is.
drone16 wrote on 2024-04-24, 13:48:Shponglefan wrote on 2024-04-24, 13:42:You could technically do both. The Riva 128 is a 2D/3D card.
I tried to look for Riva 128 in PCI flavour (AFAIK there was no AGP on 1997 MBs). It was scarce and too expensive. I already invested in Voodoo2 anyways. $210 AUD damn 😀
Riva128 has horrible Image quality, the Millennium II is superior in that regards.
Trashbytes wrote on 2024-05-02, 06:03:[...]
Riva128 has horrible Image quality, the Millennium II is superior in that regards.
Image quality depends on the cards not the chip.
"Riva128" isn't a card but a chip. Some cards with the Riva128 had awful image quality, some (Diamond Viper 330 springs to mind) had excellent quality.
So it depends on the card. The Millennium II was undoubtedly superb though - but if any DOS SVGA games are on the menu (which were very much still a thing in 1997), it's a poor choice. OP should clarify use cases.
> OP should clarify use cases.
1. Aesthetics and immense satisfaction turning it on
2. Key games of the era, Quake 2, Unreal, Age of Empires and so on.
3. Tinkering with HW and SW. I made perfect boot floppy, DEVICEHIGH and oakcdrom 😀
Just got USB case brackets and ordered PS/2 ones.
dionb wrote on 2024-05-02, 08:22:Image quality depends on the cards not the chip. […]
Trashbytes wrote on 2024-05-02, 06:03:[...]
Riva128 has horrible Image quality, the Millennium II is superior in that regards.
Image quality depends on the cards not the chip.
"Riva128" isn't a card but a chip. Some cards with the Riva128 had awful image quality, some (Diamond Viper 330 springs to mind) had excellent quality.
So it depends on the card. The Millennium II was undoubtedly superb though - but if any DOS SVGA games are on the menu (which were very much still a thing in 1997), it's a poor choice. OP should clarify use cases.
I'm aware of what the 128 is ..I'm also aware the vast majority of 128 cards suffer from the Vaseline screen effect unless you are willing to shell out more than what the card is worth for one of the few models that have better quality. I own several cards in both 128 and 128ZX variants, the good ones do cost more than they are worth and I wont recommend anyone go buy them.
For DOS gaming some concessions will have to be made, any GPU modern enough here to also have windows acceleration will likely have issues with some DOS games, If I wanted both then a TnT PCI or TnT2M64 PCI would be a good option and its what I have run in a similar build before, DOS compatibility with either card is excellent, mode X stuff will still have a few issues.
The TnT is 98 era so would be just fine alongside the Voodoo2 which is also 98 era.
drone16 wrote on 2024-05-02, 08:31:> OP should clarify use cases.
1. Aesthetics and immense satisfaction turning it on
2. Key games of the era, Quake 2, Unreal, Age of Empires and so on.
So Windows 95 only, no DOS?
3. Tinkering with HW and SW. I made perfect boot floppy, DEVICEHIGH and oakcdrom 😀
That does sound like DOS.
Just got USB case brackets and ordered PS/2 ones.
USB... for anything more than HID, that implies Win98SE with patches.
So I'm afraid it's still not clear which OS' you're going to be running. Win95 vs Win98 doesn't really matter in terms of relevant hardware, but DOS does.
Trashbytes wrote on 2024-05-02, 09:05:[...]
I'm aware of what the 128 is ..I'm also aware the vast majority of 128 cards suffer from the Vaseline screen effect unless you are willing to shell out more than what the card is worth for one of the few models that have better quality. I own several cards in both 128 and 128ZX variants, the good ones do cost more than they are worth and I wont recommend anyone go buy them.
Let's not make assumptions about what is available to TS and how much it is going to cost. Anything from a premium brand will cost an arm and a leg on famous auction sites with 'buy it now', but it's often possible - if less predictable - to get stuff locally for far less.
For DOS gaming some concessions will have to be made, any GPU modern enough here to also have windows acceleration will likely have issues with some DOS games, If I wanted both then a TnT PCI or TnT2M64 PCI would be a good option and its what I have run in a similar build before, DOS compatibility with either card is excellent, mode X stuff will still have a few issues.
The TnT is 98 era so would be just fine alongside the Voodoo2 which is also 98 era.
Indeed. But everything you said about potentially awful image quality applies just as much to TNT(2) cards. There are some really good ones out there and there are too many downright awful ones. The good ones tend to be from brands that command premium prices.
But if DOS SVGA isn't needed it's simple: that Millennium II is a perfect 2D card to pair with a Voodoo.
If DOS SVGA is needed, it gets complicated and IMHO OP needs as many good options a possible so he can jump on the first one that seems affordable. Basically I'd go for anything with good DOS VESA support and Windows 2D acceleration (eg. Ark 2000, Cirrus Logic GD543x/4x, nVidia Riva 128 or TNT, S3 Trio or Virge) that pops up as a good deal.
> So Windows 95 only, no DOS?
DOS too, as a boot option menu!
> So I'm afraid it's still not clear which OS' you're going to be running. Win95 vs Win98
Win95 and DOS as boot option. Not separate DOS6.2.2. I will try to tame Matrox to behave in DOS, if fails, I have S3 Trio.
drone16 wrote on 2024-05-02, 09:37:> So Windows 95 only, no DOS? […]
> So Windows 95 only, no DOS?
DOS too, as a boot option menu!
> So I'm afraid it's still not clear which OS' you're going to be running. Win95 vs Win98
Win95 and DOS as boot option. Not separate DOS6.2.2. I will try to tame Matrox to behave in DOS, if fails, I have S3 Trio.
Trio is a great DOS SVGA card, likely one of the most compatible you will find, I would give that a shot if the MII gives you issues in DOS, depending on what games you want to run it may be just fine.
