First post, by myne
Most of you are probably already aware that intel wants to drop the legacy 16/32bit modes from future CPUs.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/devel … chitecture.html
I think this could mark a rare opportunity, if a community like Vogons makes a group submission to request intel to "enshrine" a 16/32bit machine on a PCIE card.
This is by no means a new idea.
PCs on a card have existed almost since the day dot. Apple Macs had addin cards with x86s on them, Sun workstations did too.
Sun: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunPCi
Apple: https://wiki.preterhuman.net/Apple_DOS_Compatibility_Card
Outside of the "dos/windows as an addon card" market, Single Board Computers have existed since forever too.
PC104 is one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC/104
PICMG is too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PICMG
Here's an example of a P4 on a PICMG card https://adek.com/product/IB-820H
Anyway, you get that this isn't new.
What I am suggesting is that we collectively request intel to build a chip which would be basically a 100% end-to-end compatible 8/16/32bit computer for legacy applications including the requirements of Industrial SBCs and retro.
Ideally it would be 100% compatible with anything the gaming retro community, or industrial users need.
The production run of the... likely SOC would likely be over several years, possibly decades so it's important to get it right the first time.
Requirements
1) Intellectual property agreements.
2) Compatible with all versions of MSDOS and 32bit windows.
3) Hardware compatible with existing, often ancient drivers with minimal (preferably no) requirement for new drivers.
4) The broadest possible hardware compatibility - ie, the selected hardware must be compatible with all known software from the last Windows 10 32bit back to early DOS.
5) More or less "just take the existing chip designs and build a new System On Chip (SOC) with minimal reworking"
Other notes/ideals
* Modernish but not cutting edge process node (eg 14nm)
* Clock speeds "negotiable". ie, the clock speed of the original device is not likely to be a limit on a more modern process node.
* Accessible via the PCIE bus to main PC, but also has some external ports.
* Presumption is that Linux and other OSs would work too as long as the hardware supported all of the Windows variants.
1) Intellectual property
Intel has the majority of the hardware IP required to do this, but others would be required too.
For starters, this would go nowhere if Microsoft flat out refused to offer an "unsupported, but legal licence to run their 8/16/32bit back catalogue." I suspect they could be convinced for historical reasons.
Nvidia is the next big player. They hold the IP for Voodoo graphics, and of course their own GPUs.
Creative is likely required too. As far as I am aware, the SB16 is the only sound card with broad support across the generations albeit some modifications may be required for SBpro etc.
Possibly Winbond for full ISA support. Eg W83628F
CPU requirements:
* 32bit only (no 64)
* Gate A20 for 8bit (removed in 2008)
* Execute Disable bit for Win10 32bit
* Optional dual core
Chipset requirements
* Chipset with Windows 9x and up drivers
* 4gb ram capable
* AGP, PCI, ISA, IDE, SATA
CPU Suggestion: Pentium M Yonah core derivative.
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/p … 33-mhz-fsb.html
Chipset suggestion: Intel "Springdale" i875P derivative + ICH5 derivative.
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/doc/datashe … t-datasheet.pdf
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/p … controller.html
Special note: Chipset likely to require updating/or bridging to new DDR standard, eg DDR4.
Video requirements.
* Broad 2d compatibility (VESA modes?)
* Capable of early 3d games, and later 32bit games.
Suggestion: Hit Nvidia up for their Voodoo IP, and the Geforce 7 series.
Here is where I am a bit unclear and will need input.
Is the Voodoo3 the most compatible of the Voodoos? Ie, DOS+9x?
Would it be appropriate for the voodoo to hang off the "pci bus", and the GF7 off the "AGP" bus. (in quotes because ideally it would all be one single chip SOC).
Can Voodoos share main memory?
If you assume modern DDR, and AGP 8x is more or less just a bus protocol and not necessarily a clock standard, is there any reason not to share the main memory?
Sound requirements.
SB16?
The ICH5 has AC97, but I figure SB16 is more compatible.
Storage requirement:
ICH5 IDE > SDcard?
Other thoughts
I realise I said Intel here and haven't mentioned AMD. I figured it would be a bit easier for Intel to wrangle all the stakeholders.
I would imagine this to be a fairly small chip on a modern node.
The entire SOC in my mind would be about the size of an Atom SOC, and sit on a 1x PCIe lane's 75w comfortably.
I expect it would be compatible with every 8/16/32bit OS and existing drivers.
Again, clock speeds would be "negotiable" as it were. It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a potential for 3ghz - which means things like the Geforce 7 derivative could probably be a lower end model clocked up.
Same goes for the Voodoo ?3?
This also means it should be possible to implement bios level "compatibility speeds" for speed sensitive software. eg, a real 4.7mhz equivalent mode (I wonder if it's possible for Virtual86 mode to trigger it automatically?).
IO ports... I haven't thought too much about, but I suppose the basics of HDMI, LAN, sound, and some sort of bios configurable(or automatic) emulation modes for USB ports would be possible. eg USB1=PS2 KB, USB2=PS2 mouse, USB3="gameport joystick", USB4="storage controller".
Theoretically, though this was designed as an add-in card, there's no logical reason it couldn't run standalone since it would have its own ports too.
I don't really know how the historical addin cards above got their IO to the host. I assume the host read/wrote its memory directly over DMA. I'd hope they didn't need drivers on the card to do it. Drivers on the host is fine.
Ideally the bios, or at least the modules would be open sourced.
Your thoughts?
Do you think it might be possible to get Intel to do it? They're pretty keen to make 64bit only cores.
Do you think Microsoft, Nvidia, Creative, and others would cheaply licence their IP?
Things I built:
Mechwarrior 2 installer for Windows 10/11 Re: A comprehensive guide to install and play MechWarrior 2 on new versions on Windows.
Dos+Windows 3.11 auto-install iso template (for vmware)
Script to backup Win9x\ME drivers from a working install