I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that any G4-based Mac uses DDR; many of the earlier ones still use PC-133 SDRAM, and it's not until you get to the MDD G4, late 2003 iMac or 2004 eMac that you start seeing DDR-333/PC-2700 in use.

For that matter, I've been getting into my fair share of Mac retrogaming with a 1.42 GHz MDD FW800, but I'm really held back by the fact that this one shipped with a Radeon 7000 AGP with some artifacting issues instead of the usual Radeon 9000. I have a two-pronged plan to get around this problem, and hopefully I'll have my hands on the PCI card I need for OS 9 acceleration soon enough, provided that it actually does turn out to be flashable and the resistor trick works.

OS X support is gonna be trickier since my original plan of flashing a Radeon 9800 Pro went out the window when I found that my spare card artifacted to hell during POST, so I need to go and track down certain AGP cards that still command a premium for being among the most powerful AGP cards ever released.

All I know is that even with the powerful CPUs on tap, Q3A and UT are both a slog at anything above 640x480 with noticeable frame drops that I wouldn't see on a competent PC of similar vintage, and that Radeon 7000 is likely to blame. Worse off, UT keeps crashing if I try to run it with the OpenGL renderer, which consigns me to playing it in OS 9 with the RAVE renderer. The OS 9 version does get points for letting me map extra mouse buttons through InputSprocket, though, as the Windows versions of anything Unreal Engine 1-based all require me to resort to keyboard emulation.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

PTherapist wrote:

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

Either Halo or Macs OpenGL implementation are garbage. I remember it lagging on my eMac @ 1024x768 and my eMac is the model with the Radeon 9600. No excuse for that.

It's probably a bit of both, I've never found Macs to be particularly well optimised for gaming.

I'm running Halo at 800x600 on this Hackintosh and I think I did the same on my PowerMac G5, which only had a GeForce 6200 256MB AGP installed. At 1024x768 it does seem to lag a bit on this Sempron 2.7GHz + GeForce 7300, but it's still very playable.

It wasn't a huge letdown for me as my eMacs CRT is shot. I need to open it up and see if I can find a hardware knob for brightness adjustment. It would have been unplayable due to brightness. I really thought with a CRT, 768MB of memory's, WiFi, and a G4 1.4 processor the eMac would be the ultimate in PPC OS X gaming. Definitely was wrong.

If you want the ultimate in PowerPC Mac gaming, the obvious way to go is a Power Mac G4 MDD for OS 9 (even FW800 models work now with a certain installer image) and a Power Mac G5 for OS X, with a decent 21" FD Trinitron or Diamondtron NF to connect to it. All-in-ones just aren't good enough due to relatively lacking built-in GPUs.

There might be a case to be made for the Blue & White Power Mac G3, though, as it's the last Mac to feature an ADB port - something that's critical if you need native Thrustmaster FCS + WCS + RCS support in an old flight sim predating InputSprocket, seeing as I've not found a way to emulate the TM API in those older games with a USB stick. I don't have one of those Griffin iMate adapters to test my ADB FCS with, either. I'm just leaving all that to my older Power Mac 6500 for the time being.

Halo is just ridiculously demanding for a game of its appearance, though. My old Athlon XP 1800+/Radeon 9600 XT box couldn't even maintain 60 FPS at 1024x768, though the even more jarring thing about Halo is the godawfully jerky animations that look like they were ripped straight out of Quake rather than a game originally released in 2001, regardless of your actual rendering framerate.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

768MB.

I have an iMac G3 233 myself with the pathetic Rage II graphics (and OS X.... Why did the previous owner put OS X on this steaming garbage heap....)

Does anyone know where I can get images of the G3 233s original OS9 install CDs?

As you say the previous owner installed OS X and not yourself, have you checked if the original OS 9 may already be installed? If you have Classic Mode working on OS X now, then you should be able to go to System Preferences and "Startup Disk" to choose to boot to OS 9 directly instead of OS X.

Failing that, searching on Google for a Mac OS 9 ISO will give you plenty of results for the basic OS install disc. You'd then need to manually track down any other included software packages that came with the iMac, should you require them - they should be fairly easy to get hold of too.

NamelessPlayer wrote:

For that matter, I've been getting into my fair share of Mac retrogaming with a 1.42 GHz MDD FW800, but I'm really held back by […]
Show full quote

For that matter, I've been getting into my fair share of Mac retrogaming with a 1.42 GHz MDD FW800, but I'm really held back by the fact that this one shipped with a Radeon 7000 AGP with some artifacting issues instead of the usual Radeon 9000. I have a two-pronged plan to get around this problem, and hopefully I'll have my hands on the PCI card I need for OS 9 acceleration soon enough, provided that it actually does turn out to be flashable and the resistor trick works.

OS X support is gonna be trickier since my original plan of flashing a Radeon 9800 Pro went out the window when I found that my spare card artifacted to hell during POST, so I need to go and track down certain AGP cards that still command a premium for being among the most powerful AGP cards ever released.

All I know is that even with the powerful CPUs on tap, Q3A and UT are both a slog at anything above 640x480 with noticeable frame drops that I wouldn't see on a competent PC of similar vintage, and that Radeon 7000 is likely to blame. Worse off, UT keeps crashing if I try to run it with the OpenGL renderer, which consigns me to playing it in OS 9 with the RAVE renderer. The OS 9 version does get points for letting me map extra mouse buttons through InputSprocket, though, as the Windows versions of anything Unreal Engine 1-based all require me to resort to keyboard emulation.

If you want the ultimate in PowerPC Mac gaming, the obvious way to go is a Power Mac G4 MDD for OS 9 (even FW800 models work now with a certain installer image) and a Power Mac G5 for OS X, with a decent 21" FD Trinitron or Diamondtron NF to connect to it. All-in-ones just aren't good enough due to relatively lacking built-in GPUs.

I agree about the poor built-in GPUs, Apple always seemed to go with underpowered GPUs in their machines. I've got 3x iMac G3s & a Mac Mini G4 1.25GHz, all could be quite capable systems if it wasn't for being saddled by terrible non-upgradeable graphics.

As you've also found, even their desktops had terrible graphics cards installed and not helped by how expensive upgrades were and still are for them.

My PowerMac G5 originally came with a GeForce FX5200 64MB AGP card. I didn't want to spend too much money, so I bought a regular PC version of the GeForce 6200 256MB a few months back and flashed it. Not an amazing upgrade, but it did improve my gaming performance and allowed me to play games that the FX5200 struggled with (ie. Tomb Raider 4 - certain levels were unplayable due to faulty fog effects on the FX5200).

The Radeon 9600 was a rocket for it's time though. I don't understand how apple so badly screwed the one in the 2005 end production eMacs like mine up. AvP isn't even playable @1024x768 and it's nearly 5 years older than the machine.

On the bright side of today, I was able to get my G3 Bondi Blue booting again. Had to reset both the PRAM and NVRAM to do it and I still can't get it to load the OS 8.5 install CD. It always just gives me a blank white screen when I boot from CD using the C key and I can't get the boot manager on the machine to load. OS X 10.2 is just too damn much for a G3 233 even with a topped out 380MB of RAM. I'll try what the other guy said about system disk but I got the system without the administration password for any of the accounts so I doubt I'll be able to change that setting unless there are password breaking tools out there for OS 10.2 . I really just want this to play OS 7/8/9 games from the 90s since my model should do that just fine (Mines a revision B with the 6MB Rage Pro Turbo GPU, not the IIc as I had previously thought. Discovered this when I looked at the logic board earlier.)

I may just get another Macintosh at some point for the task. I'd like a Quicksilver for OS X and a PowerMac G3 Biege for OS9 but there out of the budget right now. All my Mac hardware has been local purchases.

While we're on the topic.. What are some good games on Mac? I've always liked the AiOs for the fact of having Ok hardware, a CRT, and speakers all in one convenient space saving package but I'm beginning to realize there are very few worth while games that are actually playable on them at least on the OS X end of the spectrum. I haven't gotten into OS 9 much yet.

Straightened out the legs of the chips on a Diamond Monster 3d II 12MB Voodoo2 card that was given to me.
Now I just have to re-solder the legs that were loose from the board before I can test to see if it works. Probably going to do that this evening. Some liquid flux and a hot air solder gun should take care of it pretty quickly. Hoping I don't have to try to add solder to any of the connections as they are so close together.

I recieved that SD2IEC and I have been messing around with it for a couple of days. Running the filebrowser and launching stuff directly from it. No complaints, and it even looks awesomme attached on the computer. I really like this little device for what it is. And it was a bit cheaper than the ones with a long cable. Shure they look like a miniature kind of floppy drive, on the other hand, they look a bit wrong being so small and all that. I think this looks way better. I tested with a 16gb Class10 microsd card in a converter. Did not work. Though a 8gb Class4 normal size works. And yes... Took some pictures of the device attached on the computer.

Started testing my new riva 128 by trying to get it to run Quake 2.
For 3 hours I kept installing different drivers, switching out components, using various bios configs and kept getting the BSOD whenever trying to run Quake 2.

Then I had the dumb idea of just trying different game. Then I realised I wasted all that time on a dieying card, as it was artifacting in all other 3D games...

Worked on a new to me voodoo 2 card.

I straitened the bent chip legs - earlier post.

Then tonight I decided to go ahead and solder what I thought was a few loose from the board legs.

Turns out that almost all the legs on two sides of the chip are loose from the board. I don't have the patience tonight to hold them in place with a pin while I use my hot air solder gun to solder them back to the board one by one. It will have to wait for another day.

Managed to crush a live mouse to death with a crap game from the early 2000s I had threw in the trash, little bugger got into my trash can 🤣. I tried crushing the bag with a case side panel then dumped the contents into a large box but nope it was still alive! Grabbed the plastic case this crap game came in and gave it a wack. Was sorry that I had to kill it but can't have one of these things around chewing stuff up and spreading diseases.

Now I can add this to the list of the strangest things I done with anything retro. 😮

PTherapist wrote:

I agree about the poor built-in GPUs, Apple always seemed to go with underpowered GPUs in their machines. I've got 3x iMac G3s […]
Show full quote

NamelessPlayer wrote:

For that matter, I've been getting into my fair share of Mac retrogaming with a 1.42 GHz MDD FW800, but I'm really held back by […]
Show full quote

For that matter, I've been getting into my fair share of Mac retrogaming with a 1.42 GHz MDD FW800, but I'm really held back by the fact that this one shipped with a Radeon 7000 AGP with some artifacting issues instead of the usual Radeon 9000. I have a two-pronged plan to get around this problem, and hopefully I'll have my hands on the PCI card I need for OS 9 acceleration soon enough, provided that it actually does turn out to be flashable and the resistor trick works.

OS X support is gonna be trickier since my original plan of flashing a Radeon 9800 Pro went out the window when I found that my spare card artifacted to hell during POST, so I need to go and track down certain AGP cards that still command a premium for being among the most powerful AGP cards ever released.

All I know is that even with the powerful CPUs on tap, Q3A and UT are both a slog at anything above 640x480 with noticeable frame drops that I wouldn't see on a competent PC of similar vintage, and that Radeon 7000 is likely to blame. Worse off, UT keeps crashing if I try to run it with the OpenGL renderer, which consigns me to playing it in OS 9 with the RAVE renderer. The OS 9 version does get points for letting me map extra mouse buttons through InputSprocket, though, as the Windows versions of anything Unreal Engine 1-based all require me to resort to keyboard emulation.

If you want the ultimate in PowerPC Mac gaming, the obvious way to go is a Power Mac G4 MDD for OS 9 (even FW800 models work now with a certain installer image) and a Power Mac G5 for OS X, with a decent 21" FD Trinitron or Diamondtron NF to connect to it. All-in-ones just aren't good enough due to relatively lacking built-in GPUs.

I agree about the poor built-in GPUs, Apple always seemed to go with underpowered GPUs in their machines. I've got 3x iMac G3s & a Mac Mini G4 1.25GHz, all could be quite capable systems if it wasn't for being saddled by terrible non-upgradeable graphics.

As you've also found, even their desktops had terrible graphics cards installed and not helped by how expensive upgrades were and still are for them.

My PowerMac G5 originally came with a GeForce FX5200 64MB AGP card. I didn't want to spend too much money, so I bought a regular PC version of the GeForce 6200 256MB a few months back and flashed it. Not an amazing upgrade, but it did improve my gaming performance and allowed me to play games that the FX5200 struggled with (ie. Tomb Raider 4 - certain levels were unplayable due to faulty fog effects on the FX5200).

To be fair to the MDD, this one was clearly downgraded at some point. The stock graphics option is a Radeon 9000, with Radeon 9700 build-to-order options that aren't very common. I don't know why this one has a weak Radeon 7000 instead; GPU failure, perhaps? But even with the 9000, I was going to replace it anyway, just for Core Image's sake in OS X.

My older Power Mac 6500, on the other hand? The integrated ATI 3D Rage II is garbage, in no way capable of sustaining a smooth frame rate in MechWarrior 2 even with RAVE acceleration. So much for "3D Accelerated for the 6500"! 2 MB of VRAM doesn't make the desktop look very appealing at higher resolutions, either, and clocking a 603ev at 250-300 MHz does not make up for its general inadequacies compared to a 604, let alone the later 750 (G3). Oh, and you get a whopping two PCI slots and a proprietary CommSlot II that's tough to find Ethernet boards for, not to mention a 128 MB RAM ceiling.

So yeah, once you add a PCI graphics card that's adequate, you now have one other PCI slot to add things like USB/FireWire or Ethernet (which, in a 6500, isn't useful for browsing the modern Web, but VERY useful for FTP). Choose wisely.

I can't believe Apple thought the 6500's limited "Gazelle" motherboard architecture was a good fit for the coveted Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh, as surely you could've bought a PowerSurge-derived machine for a fraction of the price and ended up with much better performance and expansion even at the time. I'm also pretty sure that's why L2 G3 CPU upgrades for the 6400/6500 are so hideously expensive; they're the same ones the TAM needs.

Despite all my verbal disparaging, though, it'll at least run stuff like Absolute Zero, Flying Nightmares and A-10 Cuba! like a champ, all titles with relatively primitive software-rendered 3D.

However, MW2, Descent II (with one of the fancier 3D-accelerated ports with SoundSprocket support), Quake and anything later really demand some kind of G3 machine at the least; the 603ev will hold back a Voodoo2, in my experience, as I distinctly recall Quake running a heck of a lot better with the same Voodoo2 when I had it paired up with an AMD K6-2 350 or an Intel Celeron 533.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

I'll try what the other guy said about system disk but I got the system without the administration password for any of the accounts so I doubt I'll be able to change that setting unless there are password breaking tools out there for OS 10.2.

No need for password breaking tools -

http://sachinparmarblog.com/enable-root-user- … ngle-user-mode/

Follow the instructions on that link and you'll be able to enable the root account, where you can then login and create new admin accounts and/or change passwords for any account on that computer. Once you have proper admin access, I'd advise then disabling the root account once again, certainly don't stay logged in as root.

Put a Promise Ultra66 PCI controller in my Slot 1 rig. The motherboard's onboard IDE controller is ATA33 and I have a newer (well, for the time) 40GB HD for it. I don't really notice much of a speed difference.

oeuvre wrote:

Put a Promise Ultra66 PCI controller in my Slot 1 rig. The motherboard's onboard IDE controller is ATA33 and I have a newer (well, for the time) 40GB HD for it. I don't really notice much of a speed difference.

My K6-2 300 system detects my 200GB HDD as an ATA133, which is weird. Guess it depends on the BIOS itself since the BIOS that's in my K6-2 300 machine is a late 1998 BIOS. Also, Windows 98SE won't set the HDD to enable DMA mode, but my CD drives work with DMA mode. I believe the DMA is only available to slower hard drives, such as ATA33 and anything faster than ATA66 doesn't support DMA since the HDDs have UDMA built-in.

Purchased an Aztech WaveRider 32-3D to be in place of my Sound Blaster 16 WavEffects that's in my K6-2 300 due to resource "conflicts," it doesn't sound happy, and the lack of a real FM Synthesizer, which it doesn't have.

Mounted a fan on my GeForce 256 DDR, now fully functional and authentic. Got a GeForce 256 SDR in the main, the fan was DOA; fortunately this one didn't have the heatsink glued on with thermal epoxy so I popped it off and replaced it with a new GPU cooler for 100% win.

I will now go ahead and waste some time trying to flash a GeForce 4200 I have that appears to have been flashed to a hacked Ti 4400 BIOS back to its original firmware.

appiah4 wrote:

Mounted a fan on my GeForce 256 DDR, now fully functional and authentic. Got a GeForce 256 SDR in the main, the fan was DOA; fortunately this one didn't have the heatsink glued on with thermal epoxy so I popped it off and replaced it with a new GPU cooler for 100% win.

I will now go ahead and waste some time trying to flash a GeForce 4200 I have that appears to have been flashed to a hacked Ti 4400 BIOS back to its original firmware.

Nice. So the difference between the 256 DDR and 256 SDR is the memory type and speed? SDRAM for the 256 SDR and DDR for the other one, if I'm correct?

bjwil1991 wrote:

appiah4 wrote:

Mounted a fan on my GeForce 256 DDR, now fully functional and authentic. Got a GeForce 256 SDR in the main, the fan was DOA; fortunately this one didn't have the heatsink glued on with thermal epoxy so I popped it off and replaced it with a new GPU cooler for 100% win.

I will now go ahead and waste some time trying to flash a GeForce 4200 I have that appears to have been flashed to a hacked Ti 4400 BIOS back to its original firmware.

Nice. So the difference between the 256 DDR and 256 SDR is the memory type and speed? SDRAM for the 256 SDR and DDR for the other one, if I'm correct?

Yes. Big increase to the bandwidth nearly double compared to de SDR (2,6 gbs vs 4,8 gbs). SDR is clocked at 166 Mhz and ddr at 150 Mhz

As above. And now I have one of each, and I will probably never use either because for me 1999 is all about the Voodoo 3.. I may trade the SDR away for a Voodoo 1 or 2.

Made a quick and lazy comparison between a PII Klamath and Deschutes, both runnin @ 300MHz.

3 runs of Quake 2 demo1, default settings with 8-but textures set to 'no', Voodoo 1, 640x480.

Deschutes: 17; 17.5; 17.5
Klamath: 17.1; 18.4; 18.2

Is there something in the older P2's that is different from the newer ones? (besides the new manufacture process)

Also I expected 20+fps from this sort of build...

Munx wrote:

Made a quick and lazy comparison between a PII Klamath and Deschutes, both runnin @ 300MHz. […]
Show full quote

Made a quick and lazy comparison between a PII Klamath and Deschutes, both runnin @ 300MHz.

3 runs of Quake 2 demo1, default settings with 8-but textures set to 'no', Voodoo 1, 640x480.

Deschutes: 17; 17.5; 17.5
Klamath: 17.1; 18.4; 18.2

Is there something in the older P2's that is different from the newer ones? (besides the new manufacture process)

Also I expected 20+fps from this sort of build...

You should have gotten 20+. Did you use the wrong drivers? You get better performance with the builtin MiniGL driver than OpenGL ICD. If you install the latest Voodoo drivers you use OpenGL ICD.