ediflorianUS wrote on 2023-06-05, 12:16:

PcBytes wrote on 2023-06-05, 12:09:

A quick repaste with MX6 should get you going. At least that's what I have to do on my RGH'd Jasper 360, after I swap it in the elite case, and I might be getting a 750 or 1TB drive for it.

I'm afraid to brake the back end of the case , they are fragile , and it's in good state. Will probably blow out with compressor and that's it for now. (I don't have the special opening tool for the back end locking-clips, and anything else leves a mark) at least its 2008-7-11 dated... or someting like that.

LE. Rest of the lot..

As tech repair at work, I see lot of consoles in 5 years, I will tell you:

No, no, you, need, absolutely must take these 360 consoles apart for several things, which you will need to buy the inexpensive special multi-pronged tool and the x-clamp removal tool.

Remove dust build up, which will be massive in these due to EMI shielding boxes has lot of crevices between EMI and plastics for big clumps of dust hiding there.
Repaste heatsinks after completely clean both chips and heatsinks.
Also to check for illegal X-clamp modifications. People were doing absolutely wrong doing this. When this mod was done which removes X-clamps along with original screw down pegs, and used four regular screws, instead the circuit board to clamp the chips to the heatsinks instead of X-clamps. Over time the PCB will relax due to creep due to resin glue is plastic and pressure on the chips is totally lost. Microsoft knew what they were doing with X-clamps design long ago, was very sound design and was used up to Xbox one X. The same design still used on Xbox Series X except for one difference; X-clamp is held in place with four screws. Xbox series S still used X-clamp.

The real reason for dying were their original TIM microsoft specifically used was thermal phase that only melts where heat is on first power cycle during assembly at microsoft's, over time, with thermal cycling that developed air bubbles and thermal particles pumped out out of the space. The TIM reharden as spacer *on the* APU and GPU packages holding heatsinks apart. This is going on still with all of their microsoft consoles including Xbox series S and X. The real fix was replace the TIM with high end thermal paste.

PS3 and PS4 (all) used regular paste instead, less issues but good idea to rebuild them by taking apart for a cleaning and use high end thermal paste.

Cheers,

Hoo boy, Microsoft's TIM compound is a special kind of curse. I've seen that thing become literal adhesive, kinda like double sided tape.

As for the ones I've seen through romania - none I've seen to this day have had the stupid Gamestop bolt mod done. So far I've had quite a bunch of Falcon v1 boards, a v2, a Xenon non-HDMI and this Jasper. All still had their classic black Torx screws on the HSF mounts.

PS3's IHS delidding is another scary animal I wouldn't tackle even if paid its weight in gold. PS4 didn't dwelve into it more than once on someone else's unit, but it looks like the APU inside it should be okay with a repaste, glad to see Sony rethought the cooling process so you don't have to delid.

Too many horror stories and very little space to work with make recipe for absolute disaster. The 360 at least uses somewhat exposed chips, which I see as a better approach when repasting - the PS3's CELL has very little error margin when delidding - something I wouldn't ever be okay with doing, especially on a CECHC04/G04 unit.

@ediflorianUS - you can use a paperclip or small flat headed screwdriver (IIRC I used a Parkside kit w/ 1.5 sized bit) to pry on the backside clips. That's what I used on mine, at least.

PcBytes wrote on 2023-06-06, 05:10:

Hoo boy, Microsoft's TIM compound is a special kind of curse. I've seen that thing become literal adhesive, kinda like double si […]
Show full quote

Hoo boy, Microsoft's TIM compound is a special kind of curse. I've seen that thing become literal adhesive, kinda like double sided tape.

As for the ones I've seen through romania - none I've seen to this day have had the stupid Gamestop bolt mod done. So far I've had quite a bunch of Falcon v1 boards, a v2, a Xenon non-HDMI and this Jasper. All still had their classic black Torx screws on the HSF mounts.

PS3's IHS delidding is another scary animal I wouldn't tackle even if paid its weight in gold. PS4 didn't dwelve into it more than once on someone else's unit, but it looks like the APU inside it should be okay with a repaste, glad to see Sony rethought the cooling process so you don't have to delid.

Too many horror stories and very little space to work with make recipe for absolute disaster. The 360 at least uses somewhat exposed chips, which I see as a better approach when repasting - the PS3's CELL has very little error margin when delidding - something I wouldn't ever be okay with doing, especially on a CECHC04/G04 unit.

@ediflorianUS - you can use a paperclip or small flat headed screwdriver (IIRC I used a Parkside kit w/ 1.5 sized bit) to pry on the backside clips. That's what I used on mine, at least.

one of mine had the X clamp mode , I just rechecked evrything and let it bee. Other had big car bolts so I let that as well, when I ever need hard play I will repaste maybe(this black one - the rest as they where already opend-moded had paste changed). Most of them had bad capacitors , and with correct new-ones recaped they started up fine with no RROD.

correct tool , I tryed building one from case metal part's (pc-tower) but was unsuccessfull.

The journey to get a nice retro rig is interesting and it can lead to many unexpected ways 🤣. I came too late to grab the HP Vectra VL set which already had lower specs than my original plan and now I ended up with something even lower spec. Got a Pentium 2 400 MHz with an Asus Mainboard and Riva TNT 2. I am not unhappy about the decision. I am quite interested in the hardware of that area and now I have a solid basis to toy around with the different hardware configurations to see what suits me the best.

I was also bidding for Geforce mx 440 but I will stop pursuing that action. For the core system I will get next Monday the mx 440 seems to bit too powerful.

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-06-06, 09:31:

The journey to get a nice retro rig is interesting and it can in many unexpected ways 🤣. I came too late to grab the HP Vectra VL set which already had lower specs than my original plan and now I ended up with something even lower spec. Got Pentium 2 400 MHz with an Asus Mainboard and Riva TNT 2. I am not unhappy about the decision. I am quite interested in the hardware of that area and now I have a solid basis to toy around with the different hardware configurations to see what suits me the best.

I was also bidding for Geforce mx 440 but I will stop pursuing that action. For the core system I will get next Monday the mx 440 seems to bit too powerful.

a P2 and TNT2 is a fine mix for late 90's games, i had a TNT2 back then and it was up to any task until games from after 2000

to be honest a 440 would be fine too, obviously a bit newer and hence might be fine with those circa 2000 games that also benefit from a faster P3

gerry wrote on 2023-06-06, 10:23:

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-06-06, 09:31:

The journey to get a nice retro rig is interesting and it can in many unexpected ways 🤣. I came too late to grab the HP Vectra VL set which already had lower specs than my original plan and now I ended up with something even lower spec. Got Pentium 2 400 MHz with an Asus Mainboard and Riva TNT 2. I am not unhappy about the decision. I am quite interested in the hardware of that area and now I have a solid basis to toy around with the different hardware configurations to see what suits me the best.

I was also bidding for Geforce mx 440 but I will stop pursuing that action. For the core system I will get next Monday the mx 440 seems to bit too powerful.

a P2 and TNT2 is a fine mix for late 90's games, I had a TNT2 back then and it was up to any task until games from after 2000

to be honest a 440 would be fine too, obviously a bit newer and hence might be fine with those circa 2000 games that also benefit from a faster P3

Thanks for the info about the 440. That's interesting. In case the p2 would benefit from it I still could grab one of them. They are quite common and not that expensive online.

I also had the feeling that p2 and TNT are a good match for 98 and 98 games, maybe even up to 2000. The price was also perfect so I decided to grab it.

The problem with gf4mx is they can't use earlier drivers like gf2mx which hurts both compat and perf.

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-06-06, 09:31:

I was also bidding for Geforce mx 440 but I will stop pursuing that action. For the core system I will get next Monday the mx 440 seems to bit too powerful.

If you just want a 440 to screw around with and compare, there's Quadro 200 NVS cards with the same GPU chip that go real cheap all the time.

kolderman wrote on 2023-06-06, 10:44:

The problem with gf4mx is they can't use earlier drivers like gf2mx which hurts both compat and perf.

Are there any games that are incompatible with MX440 drivers? Or is this just another myth?

Thx for the info kolderman. Did not know that.

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-06-06, 13:33:

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-06-06, 09:31:

I was also bidding for Geforce mx 440 but I will stop pursuing that action. For the core system I will get next Monday the mx 440 seems to bit too powerful.

If you just want a 440 to screw around with and compare, there's Quadro 200 NVS cards with the same GPU chip that go real cheap all the time.

That might be another option as well for sure. I will check the quadro 200s out. Thanks for the tip.

ps: In order not go overboard with OT I made an extra thread in the video segment. We should move the discusion to that thread in case there is anything left to say about mx440.

appiah4 wrote on 2023-06-06, 13:36:

Are there any games that are incompatible with MX440 drivers? Or is this just another myth?

It depends. The AGP 8x versions of MX440 cards need 4x.xx drivers, and can't use any earlier ones. In contrast, the AGP 4x versions can use drivers from the 2x.xx and 3x.xx series.

As for compatibility issues, Need for Speed 4: High Stakes crashes with 4x.xx drivers. This crash was fixed in the later 56.64 drivers though.

ediflorianUS wrote on 2023-06-06, 08:08:

PcBytes wrote on 2023-06-06, 05:10:

Hoo boy, Microsoft's TIM compound is a special kind of curse. I've seen that thing become literal adhesive, kinda like double si […]
Show full quote

Hoo boy, Microsoft's TIM compound is a special kind of curse. I've seen that thing become literal adhesive, kinda like double sided tape.

As for the ones I've seen through romania - none I've seen to this day have had the stupid Gamestop bolt mod done. So far I've had quite a bunch of Falcon v1 boards, a v2, a Xenon non-HDMI and this Jasper. All still had their classic black Torx screws on the HSF mounts.

PS3's IHS delidding is another scary animal I wouldn't tackle even if paid its weight in gold. PS4 didn't dwelve into it more than once on someone else's unit, but it looks like the APU inside it should be okay with a repaste, glad to see Sony rethought the cooling process so you don't have to delid.

Too many horror stories and very little space to work with make recipe for absolute disaster. The 360 at least uses somewhat exposed chips, which I see as a better approach when repasting - the PS3's CELL has very little error margin when delidding - something I wouldn't ever be okay with doing, especially on a CECHC04/G04 unit.

@ediflorianUS - you can use a paperclip or small flat headed screwdriver (IIRC I used a Parkside kit w/ 1.5 sized bit) to pry on the backside clips. That's what I used on mine, at least.

one of mine had the X clamp mode , I just rechecked evrything and let it bee. Other had big car bolts so I let that as well, when I ever need hard play I will repaste maybe(this black one - the rest as they where already opend-moded had paste changed). Most of them had bad capacitors , and with correct new-ones recaped they started up fine with no RROD.

correct tool , I tryed building one from case metal part's (pc-tower) but was unsuccessfull.

You have to undo the mods, it is a priority. Is not working anymore as clamp due to PCB (board) already relaxed with time where real x-clamps still do their job. Get more dead 360 consoles and rob the parts to repair yours.

As evidence, I bought one of 360 to add to my collection early on 2 years ago, found one modded this way and when I undid the screws for heatsink on that modded 360, the tension in the PCB did not bounce back, so I junked it since this one was pre-jasper era, as I can get lots of 360 consoles easily and eventually found Jasper and later, also a slim. All of them is full of dust too.

Cheers,

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-06-05, 21:26:

As tech repair at work, I see lot of consoles in 5 years, I will tell you: […]
Show full quote

ediflorianUS wrote on 2023-06-05, 12:16:

PcBytes wrote on 2023-06-05, 12:09:

A quick repaste with MX6 should get you going. At least that's what I have to do on my RGH'd Jasper 360, after I swap it in the elite case, and I might be getting a 750 or 1TB drive for it.

I'm afraid to brake the back end of the case , they are fragile , and it's in good state. Will probably blow out with compressor and that's it for now. (I don't have the special opening tool for the back end locking-clips, and anything else leves a mark) at least its 2008-7-11 dated... or someting like that.

LE. Rest of the lot..

As tech repair at work, I see lot of consoles in 5 years, I will tell you:

No, no, you, need, absolutely must take these 360 consoles apart for several things, which you will need to buy the inexpensive special multi-pronged tool and the x-clamp removal tool.

Remove dust build up, which will be massive in these due to EMI shielding boxes has lot of crevices between EMI and plastics for big clumps of dust hiding there.
Repaste heatsinks after completely clean both chips and heatsinks.
Also to check for illegal X-clamp modifications. People were doing absolutely wrong doing this. When this mod was done which removes X-clamps along with original screw down pegs, and used four regular screws, instead the circuit board to clamp the chips to the heatsinks instead of X-clamps. Over time the PCB will relax due to creep due to resin glue is plastic and pressure on the chips is totally lost. Microsoft knew what they were doing with X-clamps design long ago, was very sound design and was used up to Xbox one X. The same design still used on Xbox Series X except for one difference; X-clamp is held in place with four screws. Xbox series S still used X-clamp.

The real reason for dying were their original TIM microsoft specifically used was thermal phase that only melts where heat is on first power cycle during assembly at microsoft's, over time, with thermal cycling that developed air bubbles and thermal particles pumped out out of the space. The TIM reharden as spacer *on the* APU and GPU packages holding heatsinks apart. This is going on still with all of their microsoft consoles including Xbox series S and X. The real fix was replace the TIM with high end thermal paste.

PS3 and PS4 (all) used regular paste instead, less issues but good idea to rebuild them by taking apart for a cleaning and use high end thermal paste.

Cheers,

I was under the belief that Microsoft like Sony had switched to Liquid Metal instead of TIM.

Yah, that's what has been said, it WAS liquid metal type stuff, phase change, but it's pumping itself out over time and leaving it dry.

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-06-06, 23:04:

Yah, that's what has been said, it WAS liquid metal type stuff, phase change, but it's pumping itself out over time and leaving it dry.

Gallium based LM like the Thermal Grizzly stuff does this with desktop CPUs but it can take a good number of years, its odd that the PS5 and Xbox Series X would be suffering from it so soon. Not sure what the older consoles would have used but perhaps an earlier version of LM which isnt Gallium based.

Either way changing the TIM isnt too difficult .. getting into the consoles is the hard part... so many stupid security screws and shitty plastic tabs.

I havn't bought anything since january and I made a promise to finish all my builds before I buy again. Most of my builds left require recaps, or major repairs so it will probably be ahwile since my motivation level is low anymore.

Also a build to me needs to be quirky in some way or out of the ordinary thing you see, even in the retro space for it to me the least bit intresting. Theres no fun in just slapping everyday shit together.

Minutemanqvs wrote on 2023-06-04, 14:57:

On my side I finally found a decently priced Matrox Parhelia AGP which was listed with a wrong description 😀 Shipping is almost more expensive than the card itself.

Buying mine was nothing less than an adventure.

A few years ago, i found a nice boxed Parhelia AGP 256MB. Full set accessories, docs and CDs for 40€ !!! But the item was located in Paris area, while i live in Britanny, several hours away.
No matter what i tried, the seller did not wanted to ship. And i tried HARD to convince him for weeks.
Nope. No way.
I had a small opportunity to setup a meeting during a business trip to Paris, but could not arrange that because of my super tight schedule.
Finally, after two months, i hired someone on TaskRabbit to buy the card in person and ship it !

This was not that expensive, with a grand total of around 100€ for the card + the pickup service + shipping but what a headache !
I asked to the person who picked up the card what the seller looked like and he confirmed that he was a bit eccentric.

As usual, I couldn't resist the low price and bought the MSI Geforce 7600GT for $4.5 with shipping and 2x1GB DDR2 1066MHz for the same price. I am very pleased because the result in 3DMark2000 increased by exactly 30,000 points compared to the Radeon X600 that I used so far. I'm trying to get the most out of Windows 98, currently on sockett 775 with Core 2 Duo E8500 oc to 3.55GHz.

acl wrote on 2023-06-07, 08:06:

A few years ago, i found a nice boxed Parhelia AGP 256MB. Full set accessories, docs and CDs for 40€ !!! But the item was locate […]
Show full quote

A few years ago, i found a nice boxed Parhelia AGP 256MB. Full set accessories, docs and CDs for 40€ !!! But the item was located in Paris area, while i live in Britanny, several hours away.
No matter what i tried, the seller did not wanted to ship. And i tried HARD to convince him for weeks.
Nope. No way.
I had a small opportunity to setup a meeting during a business trip to Paris, but could not arrange that because of my super tight schedule.
Finally, after two months, i hired someone on TaskRabbit to buy the card in person and ship it !

This was not that expensive, with a grand total of around 100€ for the card + the pickup service + shipping but what a headache !
I asked to the person who picked up the card what the seller looked like and he confirmed that he was a bit eccentric.

I've got a nice Parhelia PCI-X from some medical scrap laying around in my basement. It's kinda mysterious in some way and unusual, I plan on slotting it as secondary card in my next build just for fun. Since I have one of those Supermicro boards with PCI-E and PCI-X. Forcing some older game to use the parhelia to render instead of the GTX 960 I plan on using as a main card could be problematic though, have to see If I can find some work arounds.

Warlord wrote on 2023-06-07, 19:22:

acl wrote on 2023-06-07, 08:06:

A few years ago, i found a nice boxed Parhelia AGP 256MB. Full set accessories, docs and CDs for 40€ !!! But the item was locate […]
Show full quote

A few years ago, i found a nice boxed Parhelia AGP 256MB. Full set accessories, docs and CDs for 40€ !!! But the item was located in Paris area, while i live in Britanny, several hours away.
No matter what i tried, the seller did not wanted to ship. And i tried HARD to convince him for weeks.
Nope. No way.
I had a small opportunity to setup a meeting during a business trip to Paris, but could not arrange that because of my super tight schedule.
Finally, after two months, i hired someone on TaskRabbit to buy the card in person and ship it !

This was not that expensive, with a grand total of around 100€ for the card + the pickup service + shipping but what a headache !
I asked to the person who picked up the card what the seller looked like and he confirmed that he was a bit eccentric.

I've got a nice Parhelia PCI-X from some medical scrap laying around in my basement. It's kinda mysterious in some way and unusual, I plan on slotting it as secondary card in my next build just for fun. Since I have one of those Supermicro boards with PCI-E and PCI-X. Forcing some older game to use the parhelia to render instead of the GTX 960 I plan on using as a main card could be problematic though, have to see If I can find some work arounds.

I always wanted to know if such cards are able to work in regular PCI slots.
PCI-x slots, of course, accept regular PCI cards.
The way around is sometimes possible, but the card must be designed to support it, and the motherboard needs to have a "cut" in the back of the PCI slot to physically accept a longer PCI-X card.

I have a 3Ware PCI-x Raid card that works grear in regular PCI slot, but I always wanted to try with a graphics card.