That machine can cover such a wide range of games, from Wing Commander to Tomb Raider 2.

So it really depends what you want to play. AWE64 is a decent card no doubt. With an external SC-55 you are good to go.

AWE64 should be just fine. If booting into pure DOS, the AWE64 will come in handy too.

My PII machine contains both the AWE64 Gold and SB Live 5.1. Windows 95c outputs pure digital sounds via optical cable using the Live! Drive. I use the AWE64 when I boot into DOS and Win3.x. The system also has a SB16 CT1740 in it. In addition to the PC Quest MIDI card - Roland MPU-401 100% compatible (phew).

The system is a PII400MHz system using the SL2S7 unlocked CPU with a jumperless BIOS selectable bus multiplier speed. (The system I posted recently in the "how many vintage systems do you have" thread.

Generally, I tend to build what I like to have - the best that I have or those that fulfil my nostalgic cravings, instead of being period specific. 😀

I agree on the AWE64 as well 😀

rgart wrote:

I have an awe 64 in there at the moment, but is it period correct?. for some reason I feel like I'd rather knock it back to an awe 32.

The AWE64 (released in 1996) sounds just period correct for Windows 95C. I currently have a CT4540 AWE64 Gold copyright 1997 in my Windows 98 original system; I suppose it depends on what one considers period correct. Though I'd say it's slightly older than the K6 450.

I think of the AWE64 as a speech-only card unless equipped with the SIMMCON adapter or original Creative RAM modules. The use of soundfonts in DOS is just as limited as with the AWE32 - but in Windows, the AWE32 is much better with 2x16 MB cheap SIMM30s.

The EMU8000 with the default ROM sounds right only in games which directly support it. The +32 v. softsynth on the AWE64 has compatibility issues with non-Intel platforms and is a big resource hog.

With the AWE64, there is no fallback to genuine OPL3. So you need another card for that in a time machine.

The AWE64 GOLD has less noise than all other Creative cards. Still, not in the same league as the professional audio cards of the time (including early PCI ones)

In Windows, a Live! can be a better choice for games if you do not want OPL music. A much larger selection of soundfonts is available, including some semi-pro ones.

But Mau1wurf1977 is right. Depends on what games you're going to play using the rig. If you are more into OPL3 music, drop the AWE64 for AWE32 or SB16/SB32 with genuine YMF262. Want AWE sample-based synth? Take AWE64. Want daughterboards? Take SB16 or AWE32. Windows games with PCM music? Drop everything and take Live! or Audigy 1/2.

That CPU was released in 99 and the awe64 in 96 so as far as period-correct, pretty much up to you and your usage.

Thanks for all the advice!

I have two questions though:

Can I install a SB16 and an Awe 64 in the same system? or SB16 and SB Live combo?

and the other questions is related to the video card.

The mobo im using is sweet. I like it. Its an Epox 58MVP3-C with a 100mhz fsb.
The AGP slot runs at x2
I have Savage 3d, S3 Trio 3D, Riva TNT2, TNT2 Vanta, TNT2 and a Radeon 9200 128mb - all AGP cards
the thing is all of those cards have very similar scores in PCPBENCH even the Radeon 9200.
Is the bottleneck the fact its AGP x2 or is it the CPU?

rgart wrote:

I have Savage 3d, S3 Trio 3D, Riva TNT2, TNT2 Vanta, TNT2 and a Radeon 9200 128mb - all AGP cards
the thing is all of those cards have very similar scores in PCPBENCH even the Radeon 9200.
Is the bottleneck the fact its AGP x2 or is it the CPU?

Most probably it's because you didn't enable write combining on the CPU. Search for tools like SETK6 or MXK6OPT.
With a good card, a K6-3+/500 should achieve about 80 FPS in the standard PCPBench test.

Can I install a SB16 and an Awe 64 in the same system? or SB16 and SB Live combo?

Of course you can. Just set up different resources for the two cards. The Live will take two IRQs and you most likely will need to force the legacy DOS emulation settings to some standard like irq5 dma1 highdma5 manually.
I set up two sound cards in one of my PCs to use low DMA1 for both to achieve better old game compatibility. These were an SB Pro 1 and a CT2940. The only issue you might have in such a case is that you can accidentally misconfigure games which support multiple sound devices AND DMA is actually used.
In my case, the SB Pro 1 was set to A220 I7 D1 and the SB16 took A240 I5 D1. Mind you that such a setup needs frequent manual updates of the BLASTER environment variable before launching games / game setups. As in, rerun the "SET BLASTER= ..." command

5u3 wrote:

rgart wrote:

I have Savage 3d, S3 Trio 3D, Riva TNT2, TNT2 Vanta, TNT2 and a Radeon 9200 128mb - all AGP cards
the thing is all of those cards have very similar scores in PCPBENCH even the Radeon 9200.
Is the bottleneck the fact its AGP x2 or is it the CPU?

Most probably it's because you didn't enable write combining on the CPU. Search for tools like SETK6 or MXK6OPT.
With a good card, a K6-3+/500 should achieve about 80 FPS in the standard PCPBench test.

Yeah Spot on. PCPBENCH scores on all resolutions almost doubled when I used mxk60pt and setk6.
However there is really still very little difference between the Radeon 9200 128mb and the TNT2 M64 32mb scores.
I guess a SS7 system cant fully utilize a 2x AGP slot - weather its choking on the CPU or the motherboard I have no idea.

Jolaes76 wrote:

Of course you can. Just set up different resources for the two cards. The Live will take two IRQs and you most likely will need […]
Show full quote

Can I install a SB16 and an Awe 64 in the same system? or SB16 and SB Live combo?

Of course you can. Just set up different resources for the two cards. The Live will take two IRQs and you most likely will need to force the legacy DOS emulation settings to some standard like irq5 dma1 highdma5 manually.
I set up two sound cards in one of my PCs to use low DMA1 for both to achieve better old game compatibility. These were an SB Pro 1 and a CT2940. The only issue you might have in such a case is that you can accidentally misconfigure games which support multiple sound devices AND DMA is actually used.
In my case, the SB Pro 1 was set to A220 I7 D1 and the SB16 took A240 I5 D1. Mind you that such a setup needs frequent manual updates of the BLASTER environment variable before launching games / game setups. As in, rerun the "SET BLASTER= ..." command

Hmm thanks! Maybe Ill go SB16 and Awe 64 or a SB16 and a SBLIVE.

Im still without a mouse on this system until I rewire a comm port/header.

Unfortunately I also cant install two voodoo 2's in SLI on this motherboard because the CPU fan/heatsink is in the way and I would have to bend the card slightly to get it to fit - its just too long.

2 PnP sound cards isn't as easy as it sounds, the example above includes a SB Pro, which of course has it's resources set via jumper. Once you have both cards needing diagnose or CTCM, then things get tricky. Theres a thread about it around here somewhere.

As I have mentioned in my post above, my PII system has:

1. AWE64 Gold - A220 I5 D1 H5 P300 E620

2. SB16 CT1740 - A240 I7 D3 H6 P300

3. SB Live 5.1 - Only used in Windows 95 and Resources controlled by Windows

4. MUSICQUEST PC MIDI Card - I2 P330 - connected to CM-500.

It is tricky to setup two or more sound cards in DOS.

Here's one thread with my trials with double creative cards : [Solved] How to use SB16SET/MIXERSET/DIAGNOSE with TWO or more Creative PnP cards?

My attempt at running two (or more) cards in the same machine have always ended in going back to my previous setup 😀

Thing is that the FM chip stays at the same resource and this creates issues with old Sierra games for example.

I would just stuck with the AWE64 and be done with it 😀

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

My attempt at running two (or more) cards in the same machine have always ended in going back to my previous setup 😀

Thing is that the FM chip stays at the same resource and this creates issues with old Sierra games for example.

I would just stuck with the AWE64 and be done with it 😀

🤣 😀

Didn't you advise me on another thread to use two sound cards?? 😀

To be honest. My am5x86 133 (150mhz oc) has been running a sb16 and sbpro perfectly.....untill a few days ago I noticed that none of the sierra titles I have work. they appear to have serious issues with 2 sound cards in the same system.

I had a thirst for quest for glory 1 VGA or police quest 4 and they had problems.

Doom 2 and Lands of Lore - Two titles Im playing daily run perfectly though.

I might just go with the awe 64 or sb live in the K6-3 rig

Next time Im working on my 486 though I noticed I have a Sound Blaster 2230 which doesnt have the hanging note bug correct? I might just swap the SB PRO and the SB 16 out for the SB CT-2230.

As I said it totally depends what you want. Sooo many options.

A good combination is the AWE64 with an external SC-55.

Another good combination is the AWE64 with MPU401AT and SC-55, MT-32 (Old) and CM-32L.

But you already have a 386 / 486 right? So with your PC there is no point in worrying about OPL3 and MT-32, you want to focus on early W95 games and here the AWE64 with SC-55 should work very well. Do W95 games still use MIDI?

What is the model name of Creative CT4810 card with CT2518-DBQ chip? This page

http://ask.europe.creative.com/wwenglish/gene … _List_Audio.htm

says it's Creative Ensoniq AudioPCI and this

http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=3051

tells that i own Creative Vibra 128. But I successfully installed drivers for Creative SoundBlaster 128, as it shown in Device Manager.

What is the original name of remarked CT2518 chip (ES1370/ES1371/ES1373/other)?

My 2 (euro)cents... I would ditch the ISA Creatives. There are clones which sound much better. I have always been an ESS fan, upto PCI Maestro. The ISA ones and PCI Solo are unbeatable when it comes to compatibility and OPL-like sound. They even have ESFM, which, IMHO, sounds better than OPL3 FM. Some games have dedicated drivers for ESS688 and compatibles.
An ESS card with WT header, or an external module, and you are set for a lot of games. When it comes to DOS games which work well in Windows, or pure Win games, then I would choose a Soundblaster Live! for that time period.