luckybob wrote on 2023-06-23, 17:53:

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-06-23, 17:35:

A P2 450 running at 266MHZ would perform identically to the real 266MHz part correct? EDIT Nope: The 450 is a 100mhz Deschutes part, so I need to order a Klamath P2

close enough. as i recall, you can underclock just about any p2/p3 to a lower fsb.

I ended up ordering a replace SL2HE 266mhz. I want to keep this machine similar to its factory configuration, as I'm quite fond of it.

Wonder what caused the CPU to fail like that though. Is the base memory failing a known issue with certain P2s or did I just lose the silicon lottery here? This CPU was never really abused. Ran it at stock clock speeds, had the factory heatsink with thermal sensor on it, etc.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-06-23, 18:37:

luckybob wrote on 2023-06-23, 17:53:

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-06-23, 17:35:

A P2 450 running at 266MHZ would perform identically to the real 266MHz part correct? EDIT Nope: The 450 is a 100mhz Deschutes part, so I need to order a Klamath P2

close enough. as i recall, you can underclock just about any p2/p3 to a lower fsb.

I ended up ordering a replace SL2HE 266mhz. I want to keep this machine similar to its factory configuration, as I'm quite fond of it.

Wonder what caused the CPU to fail like that though. Is the base memory failing a known issue with certain P2s or did I just lose the silicon lottery here? This CPU was never really abused. Ran it at stock clock speeds, had the factory heatsink with thermal sensor on it, etc.

Does not matter, the important thing how well were the former CPU cooled?

Cheers,

Spent some of day sorting out stuff to throw out and rearrange long term storage stuff among large bins to create two empty 2 bins to get my stuff off atop computers and second desk emptied into bins. Also placed two now full bins on top so reach these stuff easier and frequently.

Whew, much better!

Cheers,

Was working on putting a Baby AT Socket 7 board in a mITX case (Fractal Design Node 202) when a bios update failed and left the board dead. 😐😐😐 The board was already acting pretty unhappy - none of the ports/headers seemed to work other than the KB. Also memory errors and serious stability issues. Was hoping a bios update would fix it, but no it appears it just landed the killing blow.

First time I've ever had a bios update fail such that it toasted itself. Can I fix this with an EEPROM programmer? That's an area I have no experience in.

Oh yeah, didn't help that this was my first time trying a bios update with a GoTek - none of those good/bad floppy noises to let me know how it's doing.

If it's got trouble with RAM or stability, reflashing the BIOS may have been the nail in the coffin. It will probably need reprogramming on a known good computer, or the board repaired and may reflashed from the bootblock - but that would require knowing it's stable. Probably best to program externally and then use the partially working state to troubleshoot. (it's probably capacitors)

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I just used my Windows 10 PC to load the registry of a Sony Vaio SR1K that I wanted to be able to dual-boot between its factory Windows 2000 install and my fresh Windows 98 install. I need both installations to see themselves as the the C: drive, how to achieve that, without reinstalling Windows 2000?

Windows 2000's diskpart utility is way too limited to do things like assign drive letters so I'd otherwise have to reinstall everything, but there's a way after all.
Going from a drive backup and the Windows 98 install which had ~4gb free space for Windows 2000 to go back into later:
1. Put the Windows 2000 boot files from its C: drive onto the Windows 98 C: drive
2. From the DOS prompt, used BOOTPART WIN98 C:\BOOTSECT.W98 "Windows 98" to make a Win98 boot sector and link that in the boot.ini
3. Used BOOTPART WINNT BOOT:C: to give the Windows 98 drive a Windows NT/2000 boot sector
4. Rebooted and tested that Windows 98 could be booted from the Win2k boot menu. I'm skipping the steps where I got things wrong 😀
5. Edited the boot.ini to boot from 'partition(2)\WINNT' instead of partition 1
6. Restored the Win2000 drive backup to the second partition
7. Tested that Windows 2000 could now boot - this won't work though so don't let it get too far into the Windows 2000 logo boot screen, before cutting the power
8. Followed this guide partly: https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/windows- … 70/ch01s13.html
But I have no networking on this laptop so I connected the drive to my main PC instead
9. Opened Regedit on my main Win10 PC with the hard drive from the PCG-SR1K hooked up
10. Select "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE" then go to File > Load Hive...
11. Navigate to the Vaio's WINNT\SYSTEM32\CONFIG\SYSTEM file to load up its registry and gave it a name of "testkey"
12. Expand HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, "testkey" should now be visible there, expand that to see the top level of the Vaio's HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
13. Go into HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\testkey\MountedDevices\ and there should be " \DosDevices\C:"
14. Rename " \DosDevices\C:" to " \DosDevices\M:" to make the first partition on the drive become the M drive instead. That means Windows 2000 can now from its PoV call its 2nd partition the C drive
15. Go to Files > Unload Hive..., close regedit and eject the Vaio's drive
16. Hook it back up to the Vaio and now it can dual boot Windows 2000 and Windows 98, with both installations calling themselves the C drive

Before getting to this point, I tried a couple of other methods like using System Commander to manage the two operating systems, but the BIOS on this VAIO wouldn't work with it. This purely Microsoft method works pretty well.

Some testing of the Pentium Pros and motherboard today. Noticed a bent pin on one of the chips while having a final close inspection. It doesn't seem to be quite touching the one next to it and I daren't try and move it, it's bound to break if I do. The bent leg is bios chip select, as I can boot I assume it's fine!

So far I've tested the board/cpus/RAM with some CF cards and Windows 98SE

Working:
Updated bios successfully (phew! I don't see a removeable bios chip)
Both PS/2 ports
Primary IDE, Secondary IDE channels
Floppy (I think, no disk to test but access light comes on as expected with an old drive I found at work).
Sound chip - line out tested and working
Onboard Ethernet
USB ports

Still to test:
Sound chip - line in/mic in
scsi controller port (onboard, showing in post at least)
serial port
parallel port

Confident enough to have ordered a case! I want it secured properly on risers before constantly plugging/unplugging board connectors. The size and already having to resolder a cracked capacitor joint has me being cautious.

Sometimes things like that, you can cut a sliver of plastic from a bubble pack or similar and sneak it in there, ain't gonna bend it too much and gives you peace of mind it won't conduct.

magnification, razor, steady hand

Scanned some film with a Canoscan FS2710 and a Shuttle SN45G. The Shuttle is a bit too new for this, it's running Windows XP and that's the newest OS the scanner is compatible with, but it's the only machine I have with a free PCI slot for the SCSI card. The results aren't amazing, but they're workable, and the scanner is faster than I thought it would be. The film holder is probably the fiddliest thing I've ever used, though. The FS2710 cost me less than $100 CAD shipped so I'm happy with how it worked out overall.

XCVG wrote on 2023-06-25, 17:30:

Scanned some film with a Canoscan FS2710 and a Shuttle SN45G. The Shuttle is a bit too new for this, it's running Windows XP and that's the newest OS the scanner is compatible with, but it's the only machine I have with a free PCI slot for the SCSI card. The results aren't amazing, but they're workable, and the scanner is faster than I thought it would be. The film holder is probably the fiddliest thing I've ever used, though. The FS2710 cost me less than $100 CAD shipped so I'm happy with how it worked out overall.

Sweet! I had a SN45G back in the day. Such a little powerhouse that actually managed ok thermals.

Did have some issues with the non-standard PSU tho... 😅

Edit: heh, I love digging out old pics and looking at the details. I remember that PSU and how putting a second fan on the bottom! was such an airflow innovation at the time. What GPU am I running?

Spent the day setting up and working on two builds based around the parts below, I dont know if people here will consider these as "Retro" but I think anything before Sandybridge is close enough.

A AMD build based around the ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe and the Athlon X2 6400+ 3.2Ghz CPU, the Radeon 4870x2 I have in storage will be heading for this rig along with a XiFi Platinum. (This board supports the X4 940 and X6 1100T but wanted to stick to pure AM2 and Dual core)

Also building an Intel counterpart that is using some rather high end parts for the period based around the ASUS Rampage III Extreme and the Intel Extreme 990x, got a M6000 Quadro super cheap for this build which I have some XP drivers for so this build will be multi OS running XP, Win7, Linux and likely Vista Ultimate for shits and giggles. Got a 4 bay Sata SSD caddie that lets you power off each SSD which will make swapping operating systems super easy and fast. I want to throw a XiFi Elite Pro in this but no idea about drivers for Vist or 7, have to look into this.

Obligatory GPU pic

Once I get these up and running and sorted with other goodies like Sound cards and storage I will post a separate thread about them with pics and benchies.

Edit - the CPUs and ram shown in the pics of the boards wont be used .. already have better parts picked out.

It's not that I don't consider them retro, it's just that I can't see the point to these.. I started building a Socket AM2 system myself with an HD 4890 at some point and realized it did nothing that my current AM4 / RX6700XT can't do..

appiah4 wrote on 2023-06-26, 12:39:

It's not that I don't consider them retro, it's just that I can't see the point to these.. I started building a Socket AM2 system myself with an HD 4890 at some point and realized it did nothing that my current AM4 / RX6700XT can't do..

True I suppose, not that I ever see it that way as a hobby, I mean classic muscle cars do pretty much every thing modern cars do, same for old planes .. but people still buy and restore them. That said my modern PC cant run Windows98 and I doubt it could run Windows XP . .even Vista might be a stretch due to drivers and there are a good number of other older operating systems I know my modern PC would have a fit trying to run, so there is some merit to having one of these rigs around. (by run I mean actually usable with full hardware drivers, not some stripped down safe mode crap)

Also older PCIe GPUs wont run in my modern PC . .at all, pretty sure anything below PCIe 2.0 will refuse to post due to hardware incompatibilities. I could go on but modern PCs do have their limitations, even emulation cant get around these limitations. You do have a point for most software and games, most of them can be made to run under a modern PC in a fashion with VMs and emulation.

Edit - UEFI also introduced a lot of issues for running older operating systems on modern hardware and thats aside from lack of driver support or deprecated CPU instructions . .thanks Intel.

Right, pre-UEFI might be a hot retro commodity in a few years. Kinda like the last boards with ISA slots, or AGP. On the AMD side there's also that discontinuity where early Zen had x86-16/32 problems, so top end of AM2/3 might be "interesting" as a "last before x" in the future also.

There are one or two quirky Vista quirks that might be fun to explore with fully Vista supported hardware, techs that launched on Vista and never continued, or continued in buried form with all the knobs and dials sawn off.

appiah4 wrote on 2023-06-26, 12:39:

It's not that I don't consider them retro, it's just that I can't see the point to these.. I started building a Socket AM2 system myself with an HD 4890 at some point and realized it did nothing that my current AM4 / RX6700XT can't do..

a random more modern machine can do almost anything any PC of the past can do once we include dosbox, gog/steam, pcem, wrappers, patches and so on

it's really just the enthusiasm of building things a lot of the time i think, there isn't much software specific stuff that requires special builds as a rule, but its fun 😀

ubiq wrote on 2023-06-25, 19:54:

Sweet! I had a SN45G back in the day. Such a little powerhouse that actually managed ok thermals. […]
Show full quote

XCVG wrote on 2023-06-25, 17:30:

Scanned some film with a Canoscan FS2710 and a Shuttle SN45G. The Shuttle is a bit too new for this, it's running Windows XP and that's the newest OS the scanner is compatible with, but it's the only machine I have with a free PCI slot for the SCSI card. The results aren't amazing, but they're workable, and the scanner is faster than I thought it would be. The film holder is probably the fiddliest thing I've ever used, though. The FS2710 cost me less than $100 CAD shipped so I'm happy with how it worked out overall.

Sweet! I had a SN45G back in the day. Such a little powerhouse that actually managed ok thermals.

Did have some issues with the non-standard PSU tho... 😅
newpsu.jpg

Edit: heh, I love digging out old pics and looking at the details. I remember that PSU and how putting a second fan on the bottom! was such an airflow innovation at the time. What GPU am I running?

It's a really neat little machine. I never had one when they were current but I remember seeing them on websites and in Maximum PC and thinking they were so cool. This one was an impulse buy on I think Facebook Marketplace, I saw one come up locally for cheap and jumped on it. Cooling seems to be okay but it is pretty noisy.

The nonstandard PSU does worry me a bit and it's one of the reasons I was reluctant to use that machine for this purpose. I think it is possible to get a replacement, but not cheaply or easily.

It is nice to give this machine something to do, though, since it was mostly a shelf queen before. I already have a great Win98 machine and a better XP machine so it didn't really have a useful niche. I started setting it up as "early-mid 2000s content creation box" but Premiere Pro CS2 won't run on it and that kinda took the wind out of my sails on that idea. I'm slowly inching toward building a different system for that, but I don't have any of the parts yet so it's not time for a build log yet.

gerry wrote on 2023-06-26, 13:40:

appiah4 wrote on 2023-06-26, 12:39:

It's not that I don't consider them retro, it's just that I can't see the point to these.. I started building a Socket AM2 system myself with an HD 4890 at some point and realized it did nothing that my current AM4 / RX6700XT can't do..

a random more modern machine can do almost anything any PC of the past can do once we include dosbox, gog/steam, pcem, wrappers, patches and so on

it's really just the enthusiasm of building things a lot of the time i think, there isn't much software specific stuff that requires special builds as a rule, but its fun 😀

Sure it can till you hit software that wont run under emulation/VMs or on modern PCs or requires a OS to be running on real hardware that simply wont work with modern PCs, plenty of that still exists even today in production environments, all of that aside I dont like using emulation or VMs if I can get real hardware, I want to tinker with and cobble together a top end machine from dusty old bits.

Im honestly excited to get that 990x build running and overclock the snot out of it on that Rampage board, the AM2 build should be a rock solid period gaming machine too, though I may need to get another PSU to feed that 4870x2 . .its a bit power hungry ! ...may see if I can get a brother for it ...no idea if Quadfire will work fine with that CPU but only one way to find out.

Inspecting this MS-6168 board, it does post but the caps... Same old story so time to replace them all.

PD2JK wrote on 2023-06-26, 19:42:

Inspecting this MS-6168 board, it does post but the caps... Same old story so time to replace them all.

Im in a slightly similar spot with a Gigabyte GA-8I875 P4 Titan board I got in the mail today, at least 6 caps need to be replaced due to bloating but what I didnt notice till it arrived was that some animal has somehow torn the ATX connector off the board leaving the posts there. (The seller did take a pretty clear picture of the ATX connector missing ...doh)

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-8I875-rev-21#ov

Il have to replace that too, thankfully a closer inspection didnt reveal anything else missing or needing to be replaced, the caps are not super bloated so I will just replace the ATX connector and see if the old girl is still alive before going further.

Other than that its a nice looking board with a P4 HT 550 3.4Ghz in it.

Today I managed to replace the speakers in my iMac G3. The old ones were so rotted out that they were rattling cones more than anything else. I mean, just look at them.

I was able to put modern speakers that looked incredibly similar in to them without issue, leaving it sounding mostly right and able to get way too loud, all things considered.