Hey Pedro -

In my experience in dealing with the memory requirements of old dos games, I generally find that building a system with no more than 32-64MB of memory tends to bring the best results. My current Pentium-120mhz system is running DOS 6.22/WFW 3.11 with 16MB of memory. After optimizing my autoexec.bat/config.sys I get very few complaints from DOS game installation algorithms, if any.

So yes, in your case I would definitely try downgrading your system memory and see if that helps, after properly re-optimizing your startup files and memory usage of course.

You could try limiting your available memory... If you are using HIMEM.SYS you could try the /NOABOVE16 parameter and see if it restricts you to 16MB.
Also, you can try to start the installer in Windows 3.11 from a custom PIF file that configures the app to start with more than 2MB (the default) XMS/EMS memory.

*EDIT*
Since you have plenty of memory, you could also edit the _DEFAULT.PIF file and increase the default amount of memory given to all DOS boxes

Thanks for the suggestions, zsknight22 and alexanrs. I will test them tomorrow.

zsknight22 wrote:

My current Pentium-120mhz system is running DOS 6.22/WFW 3.11 with 16MB of memory.

Currently I won't be downgrading the main retro PC since I don't have all the components for a Super Socket 7 build with ISA slots.

zsknight22 wrote:

I generally find that building a system with no more than 32-64MB of memory tends to bring the best results. [...] So yes, in your case I would definitely try downgrading your system memory and see if that helps, after properly re-optimizing your startup files and memory usage of course.

The reason for more memory than 16MB/64MB is because I want to eventually get Win9x gaming on it as well. I can remove the 256MB DIMMS for some operations, but I'd prefer to avoid fiddling too much with the hardware on a regular basis.

zsknight22 wrote:

with 16MB of memory.

Unfortunately I don't possess a 16MB DIMM.

zsknight22 wrote:

After optimizing my autoexec.bat/config.sys I get very few complaints from DOS game installation algorithms, if any.

I'm using Phil's autoexec.bat and config.sys plus what was added by the AWE64 drivers and utilities.

alexanrs wrote:

Also, you can try to start the installer in Windows 3.11 from a custom PIF file that configures the app to start with more than 2MB (the default) XMS/EMS memory. [...] Since you have plenty of memory, you could also edit the _DEFAULT.PIF file and increase the default amount of memory given to all DOS boxes

The PIF file customizations I wasn't aware of until this moment, thanks. I am not very familiar yet with Windows pre-95.

alexanrs wrote:

You could try limiting your available memory... If you are using HIMEM.SYS you could try the /NOABOVE16 parameter and see if it restricts you to 16MB.

(EDIT) Great idea, I also wasn't aware of this option.

zsknight22 wrote:

the memory requirements of old dos games

(EDIT) What is nagging me is that DD2 is a 1996 game, one of the more recent big title releases for DOS. I was expecting this sort of thing from older DOS games, not from this one.

In the worst case scenario, I could just install it to a DOS VM with 16MB and copy the installed directory to the real machine, but I really want to understand the issue and explore the options for anyone else bumping into this issue in the future.

alexanrs wrote:

You could try limiting your available memory... If you are using HIMEM.SYS you could try the /NOABOVE16 parameter and see if it restricts you to 16MB.

This didn't work.

alexanrs wrote:

Also, you can try to start the installer in Windows 3.11 from a custom PIF file that configures the app to start with more than 2MB (the default) XMS/EMS memory. [...] Since you have plenty of memory, you could also edit the _DEFAULT.PIF file and increase the default amount of memory given to all DOS boxes

Now, this did 😀. I just created an individual PIF file with 8200KB for XMS minimum and maximum memory. The installer rolled by without any hiccups.

Now the issue is the ~3x gameplay speed due to it being a Pentium 1 era game running on a Pentium III. Is there any way to turn on a framerate limit? A command line option passed to dd2.exe? I know that with a Super Socket 7 K6-2+/III+ build this wouldn't be an issue.

There are speed issues in SVGA mode even on a Pentium 200! This is broken DOS port. The Windows version behaves the same I believe. I have no idea what is going on in this game.

If I recall correctly running the game in VGA mode gives correct framerate, but don't quote me on it. Its been a while since I tested the game.

The Matrox Mystique version is fine though.

vetz wrote:

There are speed issues in SVGA mode even on a Pentium 200! This is broken DOS port. The Windows version behaves the same I believe. I have no idea what is going on in this game.

If I recall correctly running the game in VGA mode gives correct framerate, but don't quote me on it. Its been a while since I tested the game.

The Matrox Mystique version is fine though.

Hi vetz. In 2012 you wrote in another thread concerning running DD2 in DOSbox.

vetz wrote:

The software hires version of Destruction Derby 2 runs too fast even on contemporary hardware like a Pentium 166. It is just a damn mess!! Play with lowres version which does not have this problem or get the Matrox Mystique version.

I have the Matrox Mystique version CD of the game (though I am not running the game through a Mystique card), and I am running in lowres for DOS (dd2.exe), there is no hires executable in the installed directory. What should I do to get it running properly? Get a Mystique card, run the Windows low-res executable, or something else?

BTW, does the AGP Matrox MGA G100 graphics card function as a Mystique for the purposes of this game?

Heh, had forgotten about that post.

I think you need to add the command switch -hires to get SVGA mode working in DOS.

You could play it in Windows. if you ever want to use the Mystique version you have to play in Windows. The G100 is an odd card, Putas says MSI is broken on it (http://vintage3d.org/mga3.php), but Destruction Derby 2 is a DLL based MSI game (not direct hardware calls) so maybe, just maybe you'll get it running, but don't have high hopes.

You could try disabling the l2 or l1 cache or use some slowdown utility

There *was* a dd2hires.exe file in the directory, I don't know how I missed it! Sorry. Now, in hi res, it runs great. Thanks everyone.

alexanrs wrote:

You could try disabling the l2 or l1 cache or use some slowdown utility

From what I recall by seeing Phil's videos, won't that get the speeds down to 386-ish (on a Pentium III)?

PedroPalhoto wrote:

From what I recall by seeing Phil's videos, won't that get the speeds down to 386-ish (on a Pentium III)?

Probably... Lowering the multiplier is probably more granular.
Anyway, glad it worked out okay

Sorry vetz, I also missed your reply.

vetz wrote:

You could play it in Windows. if you ever want to use the Mystique version you have to play in Windows.

Roger that, thanks, I didn't know that.

vetz wrote:

The G100 is an odd card, Putas says MSI is broken on it (http://vintage3d.org/mga3.php), but Destruction Derby 2 is a DLL based MSI game (not direct hardware calls) so maybe, just maybe you'll get it running, but don't have high hopes.

I might one day test that when I have enough tests to do by switching the graphics card on this retro PC, thank you for your input and the link. I had never seen that site before. I'll post back in this thread if I do test the G100 with dd2 mystique.

alexanrs wrote:

Probably... Lowering the multiplier is probably more granular.

Only developer Pentium IIIs can have their internal clock multiplier changed, the regular Joe ones are locked. However, the FSB multiplier can be forced to a different one. The lowest I can go right now I think would be 5.5x66MHz FSB = 363MHz (CPU), which I guess is still too high for DD2 in low-res. I have two Coppermine Pentium III CPUs at the moment: 733MHz@133FSB (5.5x locked internal multiplier) & 850MHz@100FSB (8.5x locked internal multiplier). I also have a SS7 motherboard with Pentium 1, Pentium MMX and a K6-2 CPUs. I could find out what the right speed would be for dd2 low-res, yet the issue is that the motherboard doesn't have ISA slots to hook up the AWE64 🙁.

I couldn't get any MSI game or DLL working with the G100 when I tried. Was hoping for luck with the Techland MSI GL wrapper 🙁 shame because it's more related with Mystique than it is G200

It does exhibit the matrox-quality 2D signal they're known for so it's not a bad 2D card choice if you can't find the cards before and after it. Keen still jerks on it though 😜

leileilol wrote:

I couldn't get any MSI game or DLL working with the G100 when I tried. Was hoping for luck with the Techland MSI GL wrapper 🙁 shame because it's more related with Mystique than it is G200

Thanks for chiming in with this.

leileilol wrote:

It does exhibit the matrox-quality 2D signal they're known for so it's not a bad 2D card choice if you can't find the cards before and after it. Keen still jerks on it though 😜

I like it for not drawing too much power as well. It is great for leaving on an ATX home server you can occasionally use as a light desktop, whose motherboard does not have an integrated graphics card.

PedroPalhoto wrote on 2014-11-06, 22:58:

alexanrs wrote:

Also, you can try to start the installer in Windows 3.11 from a custom PIF file that configures the app to start with more than 2MB (the default) XMS/EMS memory. [...] Since you have plenty of memory, you could also edit the _DEFAULT.PIF file and increase the default amount of memory given to all DOS boxes

Now, this did 😀. I just created an individual PIF file with 8200KB for XMS minimum and maximum memory. The installer rolled by without any hiccups.

I have exactly same problem while trying to run DD2 DOS installer. Can you post your PIF file?

ddos wrote on 2020-03-29, 19:38:

I have exactly same problem while trying to run DD2 DOS installer. Can you post your PIF file?

Hi, ddos. I have a 2016 backup of the file which I'm attaching to the post. I can't test it at the moment to be sure this was what I used in 2014 for the DD2 installer. Be sure to check it in Windows 3.11's PIF Editor first. Please let us know if it is working.

With DoxBox is possible to play DD2 music. How to play DD2 music in pure DOS? Maybe - something wrong with hardware?