Tetrium wrote:

awgamer wrote:

pod is a pentium

That way I might as well say that Pentium Pro (Socket 😎 is just a slow Pentium 2 😜

Pretty much, yeah, I've always looked at the pro as the proto pii.

awgamer wrote:

pod is a pentium, cyrix 5x86 is its own animal, a cut down 6x86, but the amd 5x86 is a 486 as far as I recall.

The POD 83mhz and 63mhz are made from the same batch of dies for the socket 4 POD meant to upgrade machines built in 1993, apart from the PODs cache compatibility issues it has better compatibility with older software and hardware the AMD has the most compatibility issues, but this makes you remember that all theses options were considered "budget" when released for the people holding off on buying a new system. I personally believe Intel held back the release date of the socket 3 POD and didn't release any faster versions as to not cut into the sales of their new socket 5/7 platform, rumors of faster 486 CPUs from AMD and Cyrix but financial and market pressures prevented their production. Still its very fun to see the performance you can get out of the 5x86 CPUs they did make especially with 3DFX cards.

alexanrs wrote:

stuvize wrote:

It's a shame socket 6 never took hold otherwise there would most likely be more 486 upgrade options

Why would there be? Did it offer anything you couldn't do with Socket 3?

As far as I know socket 6 was to be the next gen of 486s if it would have become common rather than socket 5/7 then those parts may have been produced in the socket 3/6 platform instead.

leileilol wrote:

kanecvr wrote:

It's kind of playable, but who would want to subject themselves to 23 fps when you can get 60 on a pentium?

If you put yourself in the 90's shoes, 23fps without the Pentium wallet hole is a far more appreciative thing.

I agree, but we're not in the early 90's. What I was trying to say is that a voodoo card is not totally wasted on a really fast socket 3 machine (if you have cards to spare).

awgamer wrote:

Tetrium wrote:

awgamer wrote:

pod is a pentium

That way I might as well say that Pentium Pro (Socket 😎 is just a slow Pentium 2 😜

Pretty much, yeah, I've always looked at the pro as the proto pii.

Well, this is basically correct, it's the same P6 core in a way, but with MMX, off-die cache and higher frequencies.

Tetrium wrote:

awgamer wrote:

pod is a pentium

That way I might as well say that Pentium Pro (Socket 😎 is just a slow Pentium 2 😜

What about a Socket 8 Pentium 2 Overdrive?

Meh, that's a prototype Pentium M.

If you would like to use a 3dfx card on a PCI-based socket 3 platform, the fastest commonly available CPU options are the Am5x86 running at 160 MHz, the Cyrix 5x86 running at 120 MHz, or the Pentium Overdrive at 100 MHz. The Pentium Overdrive 83 MHz is simple enough to modify to get it running at 100 MHz if the one you have does not run out of the box at 100 MHz. See this thread, Re: Modifying the POD83's voltage regulator for overclocking - basically, just cut one lead on the onboard VRM and add a 5 ampere diode. You do not even need to remove the heatsink.

In some special circumstances, you can run an IBM 5x86c-100 HF at 133 MHz, but you need a supporting motherboard (Biostar MB-8433UUD or Luckystar LS486E). These IBM chips have worked very well for me, Re: The World's Fastest 486 There is also a Cyrix 5x86-133/4x, but those are quite rare. And I have only ever heard 2 documented examples of an AMD Am5x86 running stable at 200 MHz.

A Voodoo3 PCI card will run on motherboards based on the SiS 496 chipset, but will not function on UMC 8881-based chipsets. For UMC 8881-based chipsets, you can use a Voodoo2. I believe you can also use a Voodoo2 on a SiS 496. With sound enabled in GLQuake (and using default Quake settings) an Am5x86-160 should yield around 25 fps at 800x600 using a Voodoo2 and an AWE64Gold. I found the AWE64Gold allowed for slightly faster frame rates than an Audican32 ISA (Yamaha chipset), so sound cards are also a factor. I think the AWE64 was around 0.7 fps faster. A Cyrix 5x86-133 yields similar GLQuake frame rates to the Am5x86-160. You can get GLQuake up to around 27 fps if you alter some of the Quake settings as kanecvr has done.

You can also use a GeForce2 MX400 PCI card and an Am5x86-160. OpenGL works well, but some games didn't do well with Direct3D. I have a chart in this thread which highlights Quake 1&2 running accelerated on a 486. Modern graphics on a 486

If you decide to use a Voodoo2, a Matrox G200 is a good Direct3D card for a "486". Outlaws runs very well for me. If you aren't interested in D3D, a Virge GX is supposed to have great 2D compatibility and performance. I recall reading that the Matrox G200 was pretty good for 2D compatibility as well.

Responding to some comments:

The Cyrix 5x86 was not superscaler (having more than 1 pipeline), so I would not call it a Pentium 1 or even put it in that class. The Cyrix 6x86 was superscaler, as was the Pentium 1. In my opinion, the Cyrix 5x86 is more a 486 than it is a Pentium. We all have our own views on this, and if the OP user wants to treat it as a "486", that is his/her decision. If the OP user wants to run a Voodoo in a "486", go for it! This is a hobby of experimentation and fun, being tailored to the individual. For me, I really enjoy the absurdity of using way more advanced graphics cards on a 486-class system. As I used a 486 system as my only computer until the bitter end of 1998, I have always been into the endless upgrade.

I compared the Voodoo3 to the Banshee once on these fast 486 systems and the Voodoo3 came out ahead. I think the Banshee was 1-2 fps slower in GLQuake compared to the Voodoo3.

From my understanding, Quake was fairly demanding, so if you can get GLQuake running at 25 fps, I would imagine that any glide game less demanding than Quake should run well enough. I would be interested to see your Glide games list which ultimately runs well on an Am5x86-160. I started this project once but was overwhelmed and had to take a step back. I recall Descent 1&2 ran well. Outlaws has a 3dfx patch which run fine, but the D3D version runs better if you use a Matrox G200. GLDoom runs well, so does Rise of the Triad. Tomb Raider has a 3dfx patch and runs well. I had kept a running list on Vogons, but forgot the thread name.

RacoonRider wrote:

Acer AP43 has up to 50MHz FSB 😉 It's not in the manual, but it's easy to figure out.

As I see it, your best bet would be Am5x86-133@200MHz if you ever find one that can cope with that. Otherwise, same CPU at 150MHz.

Anyway, you machine will still be too slow for most 3dfx games.

50fsb? hmm.. i have to look into that but i wonder if it is stable? And will the pci bus be at 25mhz or also 50mhz? I think the 4x40 setting will give less hassle and is just as fast?

I know it will be slow for most games, just want to see what it CAN do.

@feipoa:

Thanx for the info. The voodoo2 runs fine on this board and feels faster than the v3. As the banshee is closer to the v2 i thought it would maybe perform even better on this 486 but apparantly the v3 is faster in your tests.

I'm not too interested in direct3d for this system, but maybe i will give it a go. In that case i will test the v3 again and a g200.

One question still remains: Is alu performance more important for early glide games or do they depend heavily on fpu already? Is there a way to figure this out on a per game basis?

kanecvr wrote:

My cyrix 100gp @ 120MHz can run carmageddon, descent and blood in 3dfx flawlessly. Quake is another matter. […]
Show full quote

meljor wrote:

I would just like to see how playable early glide games can get on my 486.

My cyrix 100gp @ 120MHz can run carmageddon, descent and blood in 3dfx flawlessly. Quake is another matter.

The above result was achieved on the aforementioned 120Mhz cyrix with enhancements on, running a voodoo 2 under windows 95. I used several tweaks to get that result, including stuff like particles 0, GL_flashblend 0 and others. That was with sound. It's kind of playable, but who would want to subject themselves to 23 fps when you can get 60 on a pentium?

Carmageddon? that's interesting, thanx!

I agree, for some real gaming i will grab one of my other systems but i think it's fun too see what a 486 with 3dfx can do. I have plenty voodoo spares.
I know it has been done before and i've read a lot about it and saw the youtube video's, but i can't seem to find any info about my favorites: the screamer race games (on a 486)

Time correct configurations are always better to me; on a very fast 486 I would choice up to a Voodoo1.

386SX wrote:

Time correct configurations are always better to me; on a very fast 486 I would choice up to a Voodoo1.

I understand your point of view but even voodoo1 is more correct on a p1 system. But since a v2 feels like it makes a difference and i need all the speed i can get i prefer the v2 in this build, it's a silly combo anyway.

And i like trying out silly combo's 🤣

meljor wrote:

386SX wrote:

Time correct configurations are always better to me; on a very fast 486 I would choice up to a Voodoo1.

I understand your point of view but even voodoo1 is more correct on a p1 system. But since a v2 feels like it makes a difference and i need all the speed i can get i prefer the v2 in this build, it's a silly combo anyway.

And i like trying out silly combo's 🤣

I understand your point too, that's why I am using a Savage 2000 card right now.. 😁

386SX wrote:

meljor wrote:

386SX wrote:

Time correct configurations are always better to me; on a very fast 486 I would choice up to a Voodoo1.

I understand your point of view but even voodoo1 is more correct on a p1 system. But since a v2 feels like it makes a difference and i need all the speed i can get i prefer the v2 in this build, it's a silly combo anyway.

And i like trying out silly combo's 🤣

I understand your point too, that's why I am using a Savage 2000 card right now.. 😁

You guys make me want to build a Kyro II rig right now 🤣!

Tetrium wrote:

You guys make me want to build a Kyro II rig right now 🤣!

Yeah I was thinking to the Kyro 2 I have too. But does exist generic powervr drivers over the usual branded?

386SX wrote:

Tetrium wrote:

You guys make me want to build a Kyro II rig right now 🤣!

Yeah I was thinking to the Kyro 2 I have too. But does exist generic powervr drivers over the usual branded?

I don't know. I only own the card, I don't have any of it's drivers on a disk (doesn't Vogonsdrivers have anything regarding Kyro II?).
Afaik Herkules was the only brand that made a Kyro II board, but that's because I never read about another one and I also never really digged around a lot.

I do hope the one card I have will work, I know my Kyro 1 needed at least 1 cap replaced and on top of that I misplaced it.

That's irrelevant for 486s though since PowerVR drivers want the most FPU they can get. They're also a bad choice for any Cyrix systems

leileilol wrote:

That's irrelevant for 486s though since PowerVR drivers want the most FPU they can get. They're also a bad choice for any Cyrix systems

True. Too bad they are usually AGP too 😜

Google comes up with a picture of a kyro II pci so they do exist (never seen one). They do need some oooomph so they won't benefit my 486 🤣