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Need help identifying a 486 board

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First post, by GPA

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Hi, everyone!

This is my first post on Vogons, although I have been watching your forum for quite some time already and love it.
I have recently acquired a 486 board that I fail to start. The board powers up and the post card shows a few post codes running, stopping at 0d. I do not know who is the manufacturer of the board, but I assume it is one of the early Intel boards. It has a 486sx-25 CPU soldered on and a socket for an upgrade CPU. Unfortunately I do not own any 5V 486 CPUs to test it with, and I do not have any idea if it is jumpered correct for the internal CPU. Could anyone please help me with identification and maybe finding manuals for this board? I have tried googling the PBA number but it has given no results.

Here are some photos of the board from my google album (unfortunately I have no other photo hosting available with my current internet setup):

Board itself:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNd2nTCt … mRqN0xvOHRFcE13

the PBA number on the board:
https://goo.gl/photos/6KktaA1yfo3Uuzxy7

CPU type select jumpers (it looks like it is configured for 486DX as printed on the PCB, 1-2 and 5-6 are short, but reconfiguring it for the SX - 3-4 short, others open - didn't change the board's behavior):
https://goo.gl/photos/xFTDo8Kcb9PCNwHM8

CPU speed jumpers (there are no instructions on the configuration on the PCB):
https://goo.gl/photos/A7NQT3rqLzomXgqF6

Chipset/BIOS close-up:
https://goo.gl/photos/1XhzYZaPD6T5C6cD9

I've tried few different FPM SIMMs on the board that proved to be working on my other Intel 486 and Pentium boards, but no matter what memory I tried to install and even with no memory installed the board behaves similarly: few post codes run, stop at 0d. I assume cache setting may be incorrect, or the CPU speed/type. But I think in case of the CPU speed/type mismatch there would be no post codes running. I have no ISA viso card to test the board with, so I used a VLB video card that works in my 386 board, Cirrus Logic 5428 based one.

The oscilloscope has shown that there was generation on both RTC and main clock quartz crystals, everything was within specs. There is no battery onboard the PCB and there is a connector for external battery, that I did not try out, but yet again - could it be that because of the battery there are post codes but no start?

Thank you very much for your suggestions, I could use any help, my ideas are depleted.

Reply 1 of 26, by jesolo

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This appears to be a fairly close match to the motherboard in your picture: http://arvutimuuseum.ee/th99/m/I-L/33331.htm
Unfortunately, the location of all the jumpers haven't been identified on the diagram, but you should be able to find it on the motherboard.
This should then allow you to at least configure the motherboard properly.

Last edited by jesolo on 2016-11-02, 12:12. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 2 of 26, by GPA

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Thank you very much jesolo!
This indeed looks very much like my board and even though the location of jumpers is not specified, there is quite complete description of those. This will help me a lot, appreciate very much!

That manual sais the board has Phoenix bios, and from this http://www.bioscentral.com/postcodes/phoenixbios.htm link I see that 0d is RAM parity failure in first 64K, makes a lot of sense since the 0d code was preceded by 09 (first 64K memory test). This means something is wrong with the chipset or the board, probably. I will inspect if further to check for voltages etc on the RAM slots. The board is old so it might need some treatment. Maybe getting the battery on and resetting the CMOS memory will help, as there might be some garbage in the unpowered CMOS upon starting that might result in some inadequate timings etc.
Now I have hope )

Reply 3 of 26, by jesolo

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No problem - the only snag is that they don't specify the size of the TAG & Dirty RAM cache modules (although, I must admit, I've never heard of "dirty" ram).
Someone else here on Vogons should be able to provide more insight into this and probably also be able to tell you what the possible sizes should be, depending on what cache memory you install on the motherboard.
Fortunately, there is a jumper on the motherboard (J34) to disable the onboard cache. However, I would later on try to install some cache RAM, as this will improve performance.

Reply 4 of 26, by GPA

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jesolo wrote:

No problem - the only snag is that they don't specify the size of the TAG & Dirty RAM cache modules (although, I must admit, I've never heard of "dirty" ram).
Someone else here on Vogons should be able to provide more insight into this and probably also be able to tell you what the possible sizes should be, depending on what cache memory you install on the motherboard.
Fortunately, there is a jumper on the motherboard (J34) to disable the onboard cache. However, I would later on try to install some cache RAM, as this will improve performance.

I will definitely try to start it as naked as possible first, with no cache and on lowest frequency possible, but if it comes back to life I will of course need to plug some cache in and any advice is highly appreciated.

Reply 5 of 26, by jesolo

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Here's another file I found online - although, it doesn't say much more, compared to what I've already sent.

Attachments

  • Filename
    Classic-E_4117.pdf
    File size
    34.89 KiB
    Downloads
    54 downloads
    File comment
    Classic E Expandable Desktop
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 7 of 26, by GPA

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I have checked the configuration of the board according to the manuals, but it was configured correctly and all the necessary voltages were on, I still get the parity error. Maybe the board needs a parity RAM. I have bought small parity FPM SIMM module on the ebay to test the board with it when it arrives. A pitty if the board is dead, it suits me just fine - the first 486 board I see to support 16 and 20 MHz CPUs, plus all the necessary controllers are embedded: LPT, COM, Floppy, IDE... And if I desolder the DIN-5 keyboard connector there are pads for PS/2 keyboard and mouse connectors under it. So I would love to make it work...

Reply 8 of 26, by jesolo

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Try "clearing" your CMOS settings - there is a jumper for it.
Are you able to enter the BIOS setup screen? If so, you can try and load the BIOS Setup Defaults.

Reply 9 of 26, by GPA

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I've tried clearing CMOS with the jumper, it didn't help, although I have not tried plugging the battery in yet, so it might be the source of the problem too. I will try it as soon as I get hold of a proper connector, did not manage to find anything suitable for that at home.

But so far no POST, black screen is all I get.
Thank you vm for your help jesolo!

Ah and there is one more thing that bothers me. I use ATX->AT adaptor cable to power the board from ATX power source. And being a cheap piece it lacks -5V rail. So might be another candidate for trouble source

Reply 10 of 26, by jesolo

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Don't think the absence of a -5V rail would prevent the motherboard from posting.
However, it could be a memory problem or, as you mentioned, the fact that there is no battery - normally it would give you a low battery warning in the POST screen.

If you do connect an external battery, just be sure to select the correct jumper settings and also check whether you need to connect a rechargeable or non chargeable battery pack, depending on your jumper settings.

Reply 11 of 26, by GPA

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Yeah, I have not found the jumper to choose between rechargeable/non-rechargeable battery on the board, and there is no battery on the board, so i would assume it will not charge anything, but there is a switch to choose between battery voltage (3.4V or 6V). I think I can measure the voltage on the battery pins when the board is powered up and there is no battery connected to see if the board provides a charging current when running... But for a test i will use a battery anyway, even if it gets damaged by the charging current, it should last enough for me to see if the absence of the battery causes the mobo not to POST or not, I think.

Reply 12 of 26, by jesolo

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If you can measure the voltage on the battery pins and also confirm whether the board provides a charging current, then that would be great.
The last thing you want to do is to connect a non chargeable battery (for an extended period) when the motherboard is providing a charging current.

Reply 13 of 26, by GPA

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jesolo wrote:

The last thing you want to do is to connect a non chargeable battery (for an extended period) when the motherboard is providing a charging current.

indeed, it's not the best place for any fireworks ))

Reply 14 of 26, by GPA

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OK, so the Parity SIMM arrived, and we have something...

First of all, I wanted to mention that not only this board requires Parity FPM RAM to run, but it needs the only module to be installed in the upmost SIMM slot. But then it runs

runf.jpg

Although not quite completely... I didn't have time to solder on the PS/2 keyb/mouse connectors and I do not have an AT keyboard, but it is not the biggest problem in the world anyway. The problem is I believe the mobo does not have BIOS SETUP in ROM. So it is like one of those HP Server boards, it boots and needs you to run a DOS setup utility to alter NVRAM. I believe I am going to have some very tough time finding this utility as I do not even know who was the maker of the PC with this board. Well, good luck me.

So far all I have is this (which is already quite cool to me):

runs.jpg

Last edited by GPA on 2016-11-08, 12:08. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 15 of 26, by yawetaG

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You could try to figure out what the original boot device was (if it was attached to the on-board connectors), and see whether it will boot from that device if some OS is provided there. That would allow you to then run additional diagnostics. This of course assumes that the ISA configuration error and the boot device error are separate...

Reply 16 of 26, by GPA

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yawetaG wrote:

You could try to figure out what the original boot device was (if it was attached to the on-board connectors), and see whether it will boot from that device if some OS is provided there. That would allow you to then run additional diagnostics. This of course assumes that the ISA configuration error and the boot device error are separate...

Yes, I will try to hook up the floppy emulator and an IDE HDD with DOS installed later on, after I solder on the PS/2 connectors, as with no keyboard it would not let me pass the POST.
I have also found a Phoenix DOS setup utility here (sorry the website is in Russian but it basically sais that there is a utility (link below the screenshot) that can be run under plain DOS and would let you read/write to CMOS for Phoenix BIOS in case you are unable to enter the BIOS setup during POST): http://vsevinfo.ru/Phoenix/index.htm, I will try that as well.

Reply 17 of 26, by tayyare

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I think a PS/2 to AT keyboard adapter will also help:

PS2%20female%20to%20AT%20male%20keyboard%20adapter.jpg

http://cable-trader.co.uk/items/ps2-female-to … eyboard-adapter

GA-6VTXE PIII 1.4+512MB
Geforce4 Ti 4200 64MB
Diamond Monster 3D 12MB SLI
SB AWE64 PNP+32MB
120GB IDE Samsung/80GB IDE Seagate/146GB SCSI Compaq/73GB SCSI IBM
Adaptec AHA29160
3com 3C905B-TX
Gotek+CF Reader
MSDOS 6.22+Win 3.11/95 OSR2.1/98SE/ME/2000

Reply 18 of 26, by GPA

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tayyare wrote:

I think a PS/2 to AT keyboard adapter will also help:

sure, but in this case I need to order one and wait for it to arrive. On the other hand, the mobo has all the necessary trace routing for both Keyboard and mouse PS/2 connectors (probably there were versions with PS/2 headers instead of AT), so I just need to do some soldering, 20-30 minutes of work. And I like the look of PS/2 connectors better ))
I have even made interposers to redo all my AT boards that do not have PS/2 soldering pads routed on the PCB to fit PS/2 keyboard connectors.

Reply 19 of 26, by GPA

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ok, so I soldered on the PS2 keyboard connector. For the PS2 mouse the pcb lacks some smd chokes and capacitors that I yet have to find out nominal for before soldering on. Otherwise, this was a success. The board detected the keyboard and the floppy emulator. And - It has printed "Press F1 to enter BIOS Setup" to me. What a charm!

Working in DOS:

boot.jpg