VOGONS


First post, by VooDooMan

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WHY DID I MAKE THIS PROJECT?

I like Tualatin processors and socket 370/Slot 1 boards.
There are many Pentium 3 motherboards with different chipsets. Some are faster, some are slower… Some have ISA slots, some don’t… Some support only 512MB of RAM, some even 4 Gigabytes… Some are good for overclocking, some do not overclock at all… If you google “what is the best Pentium III motherboard?” you will find many information and tests but you won’t find ONE simple answer. In fact there is no one answer to the aspect of what is the “best” since it depends on your expectations 😉 But for sure we can check what is the FASTEST one 😀 There are some tests on this subject over the internet but they were done years ago mostly on Coppermines and they didn't include more than 3/4 chipsets.

This is what this project is about – finding the fastest chipset for Tualatin/Coppermine CPUs in terms of gaming from ALL possible chipsets 😀

I will also deal with other aspects of this project, trying to answer what is the “best” mobo not only in the terms of PERFORMANCE, but also in the terms of: STABILITY, COMPATIBILITY, AVAILABILITY and OVERCLOCKING.

WHAT MOTHERBOARDS ARE INCLUDED IN THIS TEST?

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Intel i440BX (Seattle):
- ABIT BE6-II

Intel i815 E/EP (Solano):
- ASUS TUSL2-C

Intel i820 (Camino):
- ASUS P3C-E (RDRAM)
- ASUS P3C-2000 (SDRAM)

VIA 693A (Apollo Pro 133):
- ABIT VA6

VIA 694X/T (Apollo Pro 133A/T):
- ABIT VH6T

VIA VT8633 (Apollo Pro 266):
- ASUS CUV266 (DDR)

ALI M1651/T (ALADDiN PRO 5T):
- ASUS TUA266 (DDR)
- ASUS TUA266 (SDR)

SiS 635T:
- ECS P6S5AT (DDR)
- ECS P6S5AT (SDR)
All motherboards (gif)
Allmobos.gif

WHAT ARE THE SETTINGS FOR EACH PLATFORM?

I used only one CPU on each mobo, and the system specifications were always the same.
Tested Processor:
1aTUALATINprocek.jpg
This is the fastest CPU for Socket 370 motherboards. It’s one of my favorite processors ever made and is very popular among retro enthusiasts.

PLATFORM/SYSTEM SPECS:
- Pentium 3 1400 MHZ Tualatin (SL6BY).
- 512 MB of RAM (SDR/DDR/RDRAM) – check pictures for info.
- HardDrive 120 GB.
- Win98SE (Version 4.10, Build: 2222) with the latest service pack (SP.2.1b).
- Direct X 8.1.( 4.08.01.0901).

I had to use 3 different types of RAM in my project. I always tried to set the timings as short as possible if the BIOS of a given motherboard allowed me to do so.
RAM USED:
2RAMyIPROCEKALLCopy.jpg

2aRDRCopy.jpg

2bSDRCopy.jpg

2cDDRCopy.jpg

DRIVERS FOR DIFFERENT CHIPSETS:
- Intel: chipset driver V.3.20.1008 , V2.60.001 (i820)
- VIA: VIAHyperion 4in1 456v, + VIA latency patch, Memory Interleave Enabler (693A)
- SiS: SiS GART 1.07
- ALI: ALi AGP miniport driver 1.90

HOW DO I TEST MOTHERBOARDS THAT DO NOT HAVE OFFICAL SUPPORT FOR TUALATINS?

I use adapters. If you don’t have such adapters you can also mod your processors, but this is something that I try not to do.

Adapters:
1bPrzejiwkiCopy.jpg

1cslotprzejscie.jpg

1dsocketprzejscie.jpg

GRAHICS CARDS USED FOR TESTING:
- 3DFX Voodoo 5 5500 AGP - 2000
- GeForce 4 Ti 4600 AGP (ALBATRON) - 2002
- GeForce 5 FX 5200 PCI (Gainward) - 2003
- GeForce 5 FX 5950 ULTRA AGP (MSI) - 2003
- Radeon 9200 PCI (Saphire) - 2003

5KARTY.jpg

TESTED SOFTWARE:
- 3D MARK 99 (Default settings)
- 3D MARK 2000 (Default settings)
- 3D MARK 2001SE (Default settings)
- CPU MARK 2002 (Default settings)
- DroneZ Mark – 2001 (Default settings)
- Everest Cache and Memory Benchmark and Everest Queen (Default settings)
- SiSoft Sandra 99: CPU, MEMORY, MULTI-MEDIA Benchmark
- WinTune98
- Whetstone Benchamrk
- Half Life (Blowout Demo) - 2000
- Quake III Arena Demo (Demo01) – 1999
- Unreal Tournament (UTBench) - 1999
- Serious Sam The Second Encounter (Dolina Jaguara Demo) – 2002

GAME SETTINGS:
gamesettings.gif

WHY DIDN’T I INCLUDE MORE MOBOS IN THE TESTS?

In this project I tried to focus on as many different chipsets as possible but I chose only those with AGP support. I also rejected the ones that are workstation oriented and with dual processor support.

There are of course more chipsets for slot1/socket 370 mobos that support 133 FSB and could be theoretically tested here, but for some reasons they were not. Here are some of them:

- Intel i440ZX - the same as IntelBX in terms of performance.
- Intel i810 - No AGP SLOT, low-end office chipset.
- Intel i840 - Dual Processor "workstation" chip
- VIA ProSavage PM133 – Same as VIA 694X/T in terms of performance with integrated VGA
- VIA PLE133 / PLE133T - NO AGP SLOT! Same as VIA 694X/T performance wise
- VIA CLE266 - No AGP SLOT – same as VT8633 performance wise
- ALI ALADDiN TNT (M1631) - little is known...
- ALI CyberBLADE ALADDiN i1 (M1632M) - little is known...
- ALI CyberALADDiN/T (M1644/M1644T) - little is known... ALI
- SiS 630/630E/630ET/630S/630ST - NO AGP PORT
- SiS 633 - NO AGP PORT
- SiS 730S/730SE - NO AGP PORT

Still, I hope that someday this project will be extended to ALL possible chipsets, but the test would be done only on PCI graphics cards…
I treat this thread as a work in progress process, so feel free to participate in the test if you have platforms that qualify for the tests 😉

Lets move on to the TEST RESULTS now!

===========================================================================================================
CPU AND MEMORY TEST RESULTS:
===========================================================================================================

58a0aEverestMemoryALLCo.jpg

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Everest partial results (gif)
EVERESTCacheMEMgif.gif

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0dSiSoftWHETSTONEFPU.jpg

0eSiSoftIntegerMMXCo.jpg

0fSiSoftFloatingPoin.jpg

0gSiSoftMemoryTestCo.jpg

SiSoft Sandra 99 partial results (gif):
Sisoftpartialgif.gif

0i2002MemoryScoreCop.jpg

0j2002CPUSCORECopy.jpg

PC MARK 2002 partial results (gif):
2002markresultsgif.gif

0k99CPUPOINTSCopy.jpg

===========================================================================================================
GeForce Ti 4600 AGP TEST RESULTS:
===========================================================================================================

1ati46003DMARK2000Co.jpg

1bti46003DMARK2001se.jpg

3D Mark 2001SE partial results (GeForce Ti 4600 AGP)
46002001separtialres.gif

1cti4600Quake312x10C.jpg

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1eti4600HalfLifedirc.jpg

1eti4600Unreal3dxCop.jpg

1fti4600UTOpenGLCopy.jpg

1gti4600SeriousSamD3.jpg

1hti4600SeriousSamOG.jpg

===========================================================================================================
GeForce FX 5950 Ultra AGP TEST RESULTS:
===========================================================================================================
2aFX5950ULTRA3DMark2.jpg

2bFX5950ULTRA3DMark2.jpg

3D Mark 2001SE partial results (FX 5950 Ultra)
fx5950ULTRApartial20.gif

2cFX5950ULTRAQuake31.jpg

2dFX5950ULTRAQuake36.jpg

2eFX5950ULTRAHalfLif.jpg

2fFX5950ULTRAUnrealD.jpg

2gFX5950ULTRAUnrealO.jpg

2iFX5950ULTRASerious.jpg

2jFX5950ULTRASerious.jpg

===========================================================================================================
3DFX Voodoo 5 5500 AGP
===========================================================================================================

3av53DMark99Copy.jpg

3bV53DMark2000Copy.jpg

3cv53DMark2001seCopy.jpg

3D Mark 2001SE partial results (V5 5500AGP)
Voodoo5AGPpartial200.gif

3dV5HalfLifeDirect3D.jpg

3eV5HalfLifeOGLCopy.jpg

3gV5Quake312x10Copy.jpg

3hV5Quake36x4Copy.jpg

3jV5UnrealDirect3DCo.jpg

3kV5UnrealOpenGLCopy.jpg

3lV5SeriousSamDirect.jpg

3mV5SeriousSamOpenGL.jpg

===========================================================================================================
GeForce FX 5200 PCI
===========================================================================================================

4aFX5200PCI3DMArk99C.jpg

4bFX5200PCI3DMARK200.jpg

4cFX5200PCI3DMark200.jpg

3D Mark 2001SE partial results (FX 5200 PCI)
fx5200PCIgif2001se.gif

4eFX5200PCIHalfLifeD.jpg

4fFX5200PCIHalfLifeO.jpg

4gFX5200PCIQuake312x.jpg

4hFX5200PCIQuake36x4.jpg

4iFX5200PCIUnrealTou.jpg

4jFX5200PCIUnrealTou.jpg

4kFX5200PCISeriousDi.jpg

4lFX5200PCISeriousOP.jpg

===========================================================================================================
ATI RADEON 9200 PCI
===========================================================================================================

5aRAD92003DMArk99Cop.jpg

5bRAD92003dMArk2000C.jpg

5cRad9200Quake312x10.jpg

5dRad9200Quake6x4Cop.jpg

5eRad9200HalfLifeDri.jpg

5fRad9200HalfLifeOpe.jpg

5hRad9200UnrealDirec.jpg

5iRad9200UnrealOpenG.jpg

------===========================================================================================================---------
CONCLUSIONS ON THE PROJECT!!!
------===========================================================================================================---------

THERE IS NO IDEAL Tualatin Motherboard 😉

The Ideal for me would have to have:
- Best performance. ( fast in games, boots fast, Ultra ATA mode,)
- Best stability. (well built, high quality components)
- Best compatibility (works with most hardware - RAM, native Tualatin support, ISA SLOT,)
- Best overclocking potential. (well built BIOS)
- Best availability (common, good price)

We do not have such option, so we have to find a compromise, and build what is the “best” for us, fulfilling our expectations 😉

- PERFORMANCE -

Performance wise in games with Graphics Cards that utilize all AGP features there are 3 leaders:
- SiS 635T
- Intel i440BX.
- VIA VT8633/53.
All of those motherboards have their good and bad points… But to me the winner is SiS 635T – It gives the best performance in most GAMES and synthetic 3D Marks! No other socket 370 board can score so much points in 3D MARK2001SE! What is more the SiS 635T is the ONLY MOTHERBOARD THAT HAS THE RIGHT DIVIDER FOR AGP WHEN FSB IS SET TO 166!.

Here are some advantages and disadvantages of each platform:

SiS 635T with DDR
Pros:
- The fastest platform for fast AGP graphics cards.
- 166 MHz FSB with the correct divider for AGP bus.
- Native support for Tualatins.
- SDR or DDR memory possible
- Boots very fast
Cons:
- Weak BIOS – bad for overcloking
- Poor performance with PCI graphics cards.
- No ISA slots.
- Bad caps.
- Average availability.

Intel I440BX
Pros:
- The most efficient platform with SDRs and AGP cards with 3,3 voltage (overclocked FSB bus)
- Extensive BIOS: wide overclocking capabilities.
- ISA connectors
- Widely available
Cons:
- Overclocked AGP at FSB 133 MHz does not allow to install some aGP cards with universal key( 3.3 / 1.5V)
- AGP 1.0 connector does not allow for ANY NEWER cards with 1.5V AGP
- Picky on RAM (only 2 sided)
- No native ULTRA ATA Mode!
- No native support for Tualatins (Requires an adapter or CPU modificiation)

Via Apollo PRO266
Pros:
- Very efficient platform with DDR RAM
- Native support for Tualatins on the "T" version (VIA VT8653)
- Good BIOS for overclocking
Cons:
- Lack of ISA
- Fatal performance with PCI graphics cards
- rarely available

Performance with PCI card seems to be the best on Intel chipsets, especially with Intel i815. SiS 635T has an integrated south bridge thus it can be the reason for performance loss. VIA chipsets are the worse option for a PCI graphics cards, especially on the Appollo Pro266/T chipset.

All of the tested chipset have the Ultra ATA MODE except for Intel i440BX chipset.

-STABILITY-

In terms of Stability: I had absolutely NO PROBLEMS with stability on SiS 635T(which was very surprising for me since it is a ECS board…) as well as on Intel i815. The most problematic were: ALI – some cards won’t run at all… I had to struggle with the BIOS settings for months to make some tests…, VIA 693A is also bad if you do not set the BIOS properly and install all the fixes, you should also stay away from Intel I820 with SDRAM. Other VIA Chipsets caused some troubles with AGP cards… I had to set AGP to 2X in some cases. To my surprise, Intel i820 RDRAM and i440BX freezed in some applications few times

- COMPATIBILITY-

When it comes to compatibility it is hard for me to say which one is the best since I still have to make more tests. So far I tested more than 400 Different graphics cards only on Intel i815 and only 2 chipsets refused to work. I think this is the most compatible socket 370 board. Intel i440BX seems good as well but it has only AGP version 1.0 and you won’t be able to run newer AGP cards with 1.5 volts but ISA slot is available on most BX boards.
I815 generally do not have ISA slots, but you can find some mobos that have it.. Inteli820 seems to come with ISA slots too. You can find ISA slots on some VIA boards (693, 694) but you won’t find any on VIA VT8633/53 ALI ALADDIN PRO 5/T and SiS 635T.
Only intel i815 (b-stepping), VIA 694T, VIA VT8653, ALI M1651T and SiS635T offer native tualatin support, while on others you will have to use an adapter or make a modification on the CPU.
There are some RAM limitations on different chipsets (check the chart)

- OVERCLOCKING POTENTIAL -

The overclocking capabilities depend mostly on the BIOS features used on a given motherboard. It seems that ABIT and ASUS are the ones who have very rich BIOS settings, but I always prefer ABIT over ASUS in this case. Intel i815 seems to be the best chipset for overcloking, since intel i440BX is already overcloked at 133… Intel I820 does not overclock well… VIA with DDR support as well as VIA694 seem not bad for overcloking too, but a little bit worse than I815. ALI is not good for anything I think… What is very interesting about SiS 635T is the fact that it does not have ANY overcloking features in the BIOS but you can set different FSB speed using some software 😉 The BEST thing about this chipset is that is it has the right divider for AGP while FSB is set to 166! The fact that it also uses DDR RAM makes this mobo PERFECT for ALREADY OVERCLOKCED CPUS! When you are sure that given CPU runs fine at 166 and does not require voltage increase, then your have a powerful machine without overcloking your RAM and AGP BUS!!!

-AVAILABILITY-

The most common ones I think are IntelBX, Inteli815 and VIA 694T motherboards. SiS 635T is not that common but appear from time to time. Intel I820, VIA693A are rare. ALI and VIA Apollo PRO 266 are very rare, and ALI is almost impossible to be find.

Fianl Words:
I would like to thank ALL THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THIS PROJECT Possible! Without their help, it would be impossible to test all those motherboards:

HARDWARE SIDE (3dfx forum.pl RetroMACHINES, VOGONS):
- Yakusa (Konrad Pietrzykowski) - DONATING P3C-E i P3C-2000!!!
- Callahan - repairing P3C-E i P3C-2000 bying ECS SiS635T
- Batyra - help with finding the adapters.
- Jenot - BIOS repair
- RaNGuN - Adapter repair
- Slaventus - Buying ans shipping ASUS TUA266 from Russia
- kaiser77_1982 (MartinGP) - Shipping ASUS CUV266 from Spain

SOFTWARE SIDE (3dfx.forum.pl):
- Forteller - providing software, suggestions, comparisons, tests.
- MarianX - suggestions, comparisons.
- Zyga - providing software, suggestions.

Thanks for reading, I hope you enjoyed it 😀 Feel free to comment and correct my mistakes.

Last edited by VooDooMan on 2019-01-05, 17:52. Edited 3 times in total.

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Reply 2 of 51, by Bancho

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Great post! It's funny, I just pulled out my Tualatin 1.4-S BX build last night with the intention of doing some benchmarking and now I have some results to compare to. I'm glad you used a Ti 4600 as that is the card that is in my build!

I'm going to try some overclocking on mine also, although i'm very limited in FSB selection 133/140/150. I tried 140 last night and it booted into Windows without any issue what so ever! I will contribute my results once i have them 😀

Reply 3 of 51, by fitzpatr

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Awesome work!

Very interesting and thorough results. Thank you for your hard work.

I have a personal preference for the y-axis to start at zero so that differences aren't exaggerated, but that's a personal thing.

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Reply 4 of 51, by slivercr

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Nice! I can imagine how much work went into this, thank you. Impressive showing from SiS, I didnt expect that!

Numbers for the i840 chipset would be interesting: performance-wise it should be better than the i820 and 440BX, and be on par with the Apollo Pro266. Of course, its not widely available, needs adapters to run Tualatins, and only comes--I think--in dual CPU configurations, so I understand why it was not included.

Also, its very likely someone will complain about the graphs and their origin not being zero.

Thanks again for the hard work!

Outrigger: an ongoing adventure with the OR840
QuForce FX 5800: turn your Quadro into a GeForce

Reply 5 of 51, by Standard Def Steve

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This is a wonderful post!

I've always been a fan of the Apollo Pro 266T. My QDI Advance 12T based on that chipset is the fastest P3 board I've tested, easily beating the other chipsets I've put it up against (440BX, i815, i820, and 694T) clock-for-clock.

But that SiS 635T! Great stock performance and proper AGP support @ 166FSB?! I never knew such a beast existed! I'll have to get my hands on a board based on that chipset...hopefully one with BIOS-based overclocking.

It's interesting to see that your stock-clocked CPU on SiS 635T is beating my overclocked CPU in 3DMark2000. And that's with a much slower video card too!

Here are some of my QDI/Apollo Pro 266T results with a 6800GT.
The CPU is running at 1575MHz/150FSB, and the RAM is running 300MHz with 2-2-2-5 timings. OS is WinXP SP3.
I'd love to redo these benchmarks on a 635T/DDR @ FSB166.

Quake III Arena demo001, 1024x768, all settings maxed:

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3DMark99, default settings:

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5 Groovy GHz: Ryzen 9 5900X | GTX 1080 Ti | 64GB DDR4-3600 | 2TB NVMe, 8TB HDD | Win 10 & 11
5 Troll GHz: AMD FX-8350 | Radeon R9 Fury | 16GB DDR3-1866 | 500GB SSD, 2TB HDD | Win 8.1

Reply 6 of 51, by luckybob

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[humor]
*scoffs derisively*
Single cpu boards, and the title reads

Fastest Tualatin Chipset / Best Pentium III Motherboard

[/humor]

But in all seriousness, this looks awesome! That 440BX chipset is a absolute beast as is it almost always #1 or #2. A conclusion that really makes sense, when you realize 133mhz is overclocking. I feel, to be more 'fair' i'd exclude it from the results as the overclocking the pci/agp bus makes a big difference in testing.

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.

Reply 7 of 51, by Cobra42898

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Just a curiosity, why so much difference between the i815 vs the i820? The d815eea2 I have is looking better than I expected. It's a really great board so long as long as overclocking isn't a big worry, and it was stable as a rock for me.

Searching for Epson Actiontower 3000 486 PC.

Reply 8 of 51, by The Serpent Rider

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Did this tests incude VIA tweaks for bank interleaving?

- AGP 1.0 connector does not allow for ANY NEWER cards with 1.5V AGP

Only most cards, not all.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me

Reply 9 of 51, by dionb

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Impressive benchmark!

I'm not so surprised by the SiS 635T performance. From 486 days on, SiS repeatedly made top-notch performing chipsets, let down by bad marketing and worse low-end boards - and a reputation for shitty performance from their integrated VGA solutions. Put a (non-integrated VGA) SiS chipset on a decent board and you can expect really good performance. ECS clearly made exactly the right design choices with the P6S5A(T) and K7S5A - despite being obviously cheap, flimsy boards that retailed for less than any other full-size, non-integrated boards on their platforms at the time of release, they were both also rock solid (at least, after a few embarrassing early BIOS bugs were fixed) and the fastest performers on their respective platforms at that time. Makes you wonder what would have been possible if the high-end board makers had fully embraced SiS as a high-end option afterwards.

Agree with the comments on lack of i840 though - even leaving out dual CPU options (which were also available on i440BX, i820 and Via694 - and was no reason to rule them out), its dual-channel RDRAM memory controller was unique and actually beat the hell out of an i440BX (let alone i820) in reviews from 1999/2000. So - unlike other 'server'-type chipsets that can actually be slower for 'normal' workoads (Serverworks III-HE, I'm looking at you...) this one is a serious contender for fastest-on-platform. I'd love to see it face off vs 635T and a fully OCs i440BX like you have here 😀

Reply 10 of 51, by VooDooMan

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Bancho wrote:

Great post! It's funny, I just pulled out my Tualatin 1.4-S BX build last night with the intention of doing some benchmarking and now I have some results to compare to. I'm glad you used a Ti 4600 as that is the card that is in my build!

I'm going to try some overclocking on mine also, although i'm very limited in FSB selection 133/140/150. I tried 140 last night and it booted into Windows without any issue what so ever! I will contribute my results once i have them 😀

Good! Thank you for your involvement. I am waiting for your test results 😀 What is the brand of your BX MoBo?

fitzpatr wrote:

Awesome work!

Very interesting and thorough results. Thank you for your hard work.

I have a personal preference for the y-axis to start at zero so that differences aren't exaggerated, but that's a personal thing.

Thanks!
No problem for me to make all charts with y-axis starting from 0, but what is the point? The differences in tests would be almost unnoticeable...

slivercr wrote:

Nice! I can imagine how much work went into this, thank you. Impressive showing from SiS, I didnt expect that!

Thank you for your kind words. Indeed it took many hours to finish this project (the first part of it...) I was also shocked to see the results by SiS!

When it comes to testing the I840 I don't really mind putting the tests results in this project but I simply do not have any motherboard with that chipset... Get me one and I will do it ;P The same applies to ServerWorks ServerSet chipsets 😉

Standard Def Steve wrote:

This is a wonderful post!

I've always been a fan of the Apollo Pro 266T. My QDI Advance 12T based on that chipset is the fastest P3 board I've tested, easily beating the other chipsets I've put it up against (440BX, i815, i820, and 694T) clock-for-clock.

But that SiS 635T! Great stock performance and proper AGP support @ 166FSB?! I never knew such a beast existed! I'll have to get my hands on a board based on that chipset...hopefully one with BIOS-based overclocking.

Great job! I appreciate you involvement in the project 😉 Good results, but they are done on Windows XP 😜 In the future tests I am also planning to test some cards on Windows XP 😀

SiS 635T is really impressive... I was able to get stable 150 MHz with my Tualatin 1400MHz, but no lack so far with this CPU at 166 MHz on any motherboards... So I will have to look after some more batches of SL6BY 😉

I managed to get it working at 166 FSB with 2 of my Coppermine 1GHz processors, I mentioned about it in this thread

luckybob wrote:

[humor]
*scoffs derisively*
Single cpu boards, and the title reads

@luckybob, I knew you gonna be disappointed with the lack of dual CPUs motherboards test results here 😜

Yeah, I know that testing 440BX at 133 FSB and comparing it with other is a little bit unfair... but this is how this chipset works... and I could not do anything about it, so in the future projects there will be also test with Tualarin Celeron at 100 MHz 😉

The Serpent Rider wrote:

Did this tests incude VIA tweaks for bank interleaving?

Yes, they were very helpful on VIA 693A, did not help at all with the other two VIA chipsets...

The Serpent Rider wrote:

- AGP 1.0 connector does not allow for ANY NEWER cards with 1.5V AGP

Only most cards, not all.

I knew this part will be confusing 😜 By that statement I meant that it is not even physically possible to install AGP 1.5V Card in a AGP 3.3V Motherboard Slot 😀

dionb wrote:

Impressive benchmark!

I'm not so surprised by the SiS 635T performance.

Thanks. I really think this chipset deserves more attention today. That is why I will make a separate topic to discuss its weak and strong points. In this thread I want to focus on test results and comparisons of different chipsets instead on focusing on one only 😉

Last edited by VooDooMan on 2019-01-02, 08:13. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 11 of 51, by Koltoroc

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VooDooMan wrote:
The Serpent Rider wrote:

- AGP 1.0 connector does not allow for ANY NEWER cards with 1.5V AGP

Only most cards, not all.

I knew this part will be confusing 😜 By that statement I meant that it is not even physically possible to install AGP 1.5V Card in a AGP 3.3V Motherboard Slot 😀

You'd think so, but this is where universal AGP will bite you in the ass. I have had or seen, 3.3V AND 1.5V only boards with universal slots as well as 3.3V AND 1.5V only cards with universal keying. While they are not overly common (anymore, for obvious reasons) they do exist and you can come across those. NEVER rely on the physical keying.

Reply 13 of 51, by Johnylyr

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Can I ask you a question about the BE6 II? When you run the P3 1400s with stock settings including the 133MHz FSB, what is the agp frequecy? Is it 66 or 88MHz?

I have a BH6 and I fried several radeons running at 133MHz FSB and I believe this happened because the agp divider was 2/3

Does the same thing apply for the BE6-II or does it have a correct AGP 1/2 divider for 133MHz FSB?

Reply 14 of 51, by VooDooMan

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Koltoroc wrote:

You'd think so, but this is where universal AGP will bite you in the ass. I have had or seen, 3.3V AND 1.5V only boards with universal slots as well as 3.3V AND 1.5V only cards with universal keying. While they are not overly common (anymore, for obvious reasons) they do exist and you can come across those. NEVER rely on the physical keying.

OK, I know what you mean, but I meant THIS:

AGP-confilcr.jpg

and I am aware that there are instances of sawing a notch to make it work like on Asus V9999... but only few cards can me "modded" this way.

kaiser77_1982 wrote:

Holy shit with the thread.... you have done a amazing job bro.

Thanks a lot! You helped me with finding one mobo for this project so you are also a part of it 😉 Thanks for that!

Johnylyr wrote:

Can I ask you a question about the BE6 II? When you run the P3 1400s with stock settings including the 133MHz FSB, what is the agp frequecy? Is it 66 or 88MHz?

I have a BH6 and I fried several radeons running at 133MHz FSB and I believe this happened because the agp divider was 2/3

Does the same thing apply for the BE6-II or does it have a correct AGP 1/2 divider for 133MHz FSB?

ALL intel i440BX are already overclocked at 133 MHz FSB. The AGP bus speed is always 89 MHz in this case... There is no correct divider, it is a chipset limitation and you cannot do anything about it 🙁 That is why most |ATI Radeon 9*** cards will not even boot on such a system...

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Reply 15 of 51, by Koltoroc

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I'm not talking about modding, I'm talking about cards and boards with universal keying despite being fixed voltage. They were sold that way. I recently lost a "universal" AGP board, because despite having the proper slot keying and the chipset supporting 3.3V and 1.5v, the board was designed to only run with 1.5v

The SIS 300 series (300, 305, 315) are notorious for that, virtually all are universal keyed but only do 3.3v, I have had (had being the important word here) at least 2 TNT 2 cards that were fixed voltage despite being universal capable and universal keyed (others had a selector jumper) I had a geforce 2 that for some reason was 1.5v only despite it being universal capable and keyed and I have seen universally keyed geforce 5200 and 6200 despite those not working with 3.3v.

None of them were modded, they were sold that way. They were unbranded and possibly OEM models, (except for the SIS, I have never seen one with correct keying) but that is no excuse for breaking the standard.

Reply 17 of 51, by Bancho

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VooDooMan wrote:

Good! Thank you for your involvement. I am waiting for your test results 😀 What is the brand of your BX MoBo?

The board I am using is a DFI ITOX CB60-BX Rev C. I have a feeling it is a very late BX Board. Its Socket 370 with 3 ISA slots. It fitted my criteria perfectly.

xMTzHKDl.jpg

I went for broke and Selected 150mhz in the Bios. To my surprise the system booted into windows without problem. I was able to carry out some SiSoft 99 Benchmarks and got the results. The Mem Scores look good at 150mhz! Unfortunately the system would not complete a 3Dmark 2000 pass and would freeze. Probably due to the high AGP bus speed.

I did manage to do a 3D mark pass at 140mhz FSB but never caputured the score. That was with a Ti 4600.

rTux1Ya.jpg

Reply 18 of 51, by VooDooMan

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Nice job Bancho! Can you also make the same tests without overclocking the CPU? Maybe you can also run some tests with your Ti 4600? 3D Mark 2001 and Qauke is what i care the most 😉 I want to see the differences between my Abit and your DFI 😀 PLEASE USE THE SAME DRIVERS for the video card and chipset, ok? 😁 THANKS A LOT!!!

P.S. I'veI just noticed you have a UNIVERSAL AGP SLOT on this mobo 😜 this is interesting... suits perfectly the issues with universal keying and AGP voltages on motherboards/cards that Koltoroc is talking about 😉 DFI did the same think that ABIT did with their VA6 mobo - The AGP port look like UNIVERSAL AGP (version 2 - 3,3V/1,5V), but it is really version 1(supports only 3,3 volts)

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Reply 19 of 51, by Bancho

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VooDooMan wrote:

Nice job Bancho! Can you also make the same tests without overclocking the CPU? Maybe you can also run some tests with your Ti 4600? 3D Mark 2001 and Qauke is what i care the most 😉 I want to see the differences between my Abit and your DFI 😀 PLEASE USE THE SAME DRIVERS for the video card and chipset, ok? 😁 THANKS A LOT!!!

P.S. I'veI just noticed you have a UNIVERSAL AGP SLOT on this mobo 😜 this is interesting... suits perfectly the issues with universal keying and AGP voltages on motherboards/cards that Koltoroc is talking about 😉 DFI did the same think that ABIT did with their VA6 mobo - The AGP port look like UNIVERSAL AGP (version 2 - 3,3V/1,5V), but it is really version 1(supports only 3,3 volts)

Thanks. It was a quick benchmark run to capture those results 🤣 I was interested to see if the board would post at 150mhz FSB, let alone complete the benchmarks! Its interesting to see it is so close to the VIA DDR board in the Memory benchmark you did.

I will try and get the benchmarks does with the same drivers as you and post the results.