1. No, DOS doesn't care either way, unless you are using a very late Socket 370 board like i810/815 that lacks ISA slots.
2. No, they are in fact better due to not needing to bother with VIA drivers for the AGP Bus and whatnot.
3. From a DOS POV no, there is no difference but under Windows 98 MMX, SSE and more/faster cache make a difference
4. Setmul was originally made to work with K6 so it works best with that. With a slot-1 you can disable L1 and specific registers but you can't manipulate the multiplier.
5. Yes:

6. Depends on the chipset and mainboard cache on either platform but generally Slot1/S373 allows for more
7. There is no 'best', but generally Intel 440BX and VIA 694T are what I go for.

Just a few addenda:

3. Fastest So7 CPU is a K6-3+, which generally can be clocked to 600MHz. Fastest So370 CPU is 1400MHz. That's over twice the clock speed. ALU performance is similar, clock-for-clock, so over twice as fast. FPU performance of the K6 is weak, whereas it's strong on P3, there the diference could easily be four times as fast. So yes, for Win98 the difference is significant. Whether it matters to you depends entirely on what you want to run on it. Check benckmarks in those games.

5. Better:

6. You don't want more. DOS borks at >512MB, Win98 does too, but can be limited in software to 512MB if needed. If you're not running anything over WIn98, just stay at or under 512MB. Note that on So7 cacheability of the RAM is also relevant. Depending on motherboard you may not be able to cache more than 128MB of RAM. To be able to cache all 512MB, go for a G-stepping ALi Aladdin V, or a Via MVP3 board with at least 1MB of L2 cache.

7. There is no "best", there is only "best for ...". You say what you want, we can advise a chipset.

At the moment I'm dealing with similar questions. By some research I found two things that might help you or should be considered. For slowing down CPU I found rightmark CPU clock utility. Didn't have time to test it, so I don't know if it would work on a tualatin or so.
For some games that are CPU speed sensitive there are patches. Others have not. If you already haven't found this by yourself here is a link to a list of such games:
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … sensitive_games

Honestly, the more I stay in this hobby, the more I realise that slowdown features are hugely overrated. A lot of the games from this list were rereleased or patched. Does anyone really have issues with UFO Defense or Ultima Underworld I/II, for instance?

Sure, you have exceptions: Ultima VII was simply bundled with Moslo in the Ultima Collection, and Test Drive 3 (to my knowledge) never got a rerelease or a patch to address CPU issues. But the exceptions are rare. Even Wing Commander was ported to Windows and released as part of Kilrathi Saga compilation — that version doesn't have issues with fast CPUs. Same goes for UFO Defense (but I don't think there are issues with later DOS versions either).

So unless you want to play games off their original disks or you're into really obscure titles, you're not that likely to get speed issues that can't be solved with patches. If not — you better stick with less exotic 430TX/440BX platforms and get performance and stability in 95% of all DOS games.

That being said, 80s games are of course a different story. But SS7 can't really emulate XT/286, so it's not the topic of discussion either. Not to mention that there are much better platforms for 80s games than PC anyways 😀

I do use P2 and not the K6-3+. The K6 Processor is very fast in Dos. Though it can be slowed down (clocking, Multi, Cache), but for me the P2 is the better choice!
(I simply have much less problems with a P2 and an LX/BX Chipset, then the Chipsets for SS7)

The P2 clocked at 233 Mhz and below is the best Processor you can go for a hybrid machine (Dos/Win9x).
Take the dA0 series clocked at 333 and you can go 133/166/200/233/266/300/333. If you combine that with a Voodoo3-AGP and a Voodoo1
and a Matrox m3D and you have the sweet-spot.

What software do you run at 133MHz that you can't run at 333MHz?

DosGames that have TP-Bug for example. I use the dA0 333 at 233. So 233Mhz passivly cooled.

I find that newer boards don't allow ACPI to be disabled which can conflict with MIDI devices at IRQ 2/9.

Thanks for responses.

@Appiah4:
1. Ok, ISA slots are must have to better sound card support.
2+3. Ok.
4. No multiplie change sucks, there are some other utility to mess with it in DOS?
5. What is name of this cooler, or its some custom made?
6.Ok
7. There is always the best for particular case, my preferences are simply most compatible for that as possible and fast as possible, lots of slots is also advantages.

@ dionb
3. Ok, but there are still MBs with ISA and 1400 CPU support? Or what is fastest CPU for MB,where i can still have ISA slots?
5. What is made of this cooler - characters on picture are too small, do you have some picture how it looks in operation, its hard to imagine..
6. Im using HimemX or Burnmem for Limiting Dos (for me 64 MB, more generate problems with more games, with 64MB only few games like Alladin are not working) / Win98 memory (1100 MB are safe, with patches, for more you need paid Rloew Patch i dont need more..), JEMMEX is also solution... but for XP and Linux more is better.
7. Look at point 7 above.

@ jheronimus
Im using usually much faster machine, where most better coded newer games like Doom, Quake,Warcraft, Duke etc.. are working fine, but for anything with no some robust codebase, i have to use slowdown utility a lot.

@gdjacobs
Are you able name this newer chipsets which have that ACPI issues?

I did some research, the last with chipsets with ISA seems to be Intel 440-450, i dunno if 450 is available for standard ATX, singe cpu machine.. When i look at AG support and max memory here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_c … II/III_chipsets
The most sense make 440 LX / BX and GX - AGP + at least 1GB RAM.

But, i know that there are even some Core 2 MBs with ISA slots, even not native, so question is if there are some chipset 8xx MBs with ISA slots too and these are still working well for DOS and there are VIA chipsets - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VIA_chi … _370_and_Slot_1 (there in general all have AGP and supports much more RAM, but i dunno what about ISA - Update: Yeah they exist for example- https://soggi.org/motherboards/gigabyte/GA-6VTX.htm )and maybe others..

I did some research, the last with chipsets with ISA seems to be Intel 440-450

Intel had full ISA support all the way up to ICH5 south bridge. Later chipsets had partial ISA support without DMA.

ruthan wrote:

Thanks for responses.

@gdjacobs
Are you able name this newer chipsets which have that ACPI issues?

In both cases, it's with 440bx chipsets. There's probably some variation depending on BIOS features, so other 440bx based boards can perhaps disable ACPI and release the IRQs. On my 430tx based motherboard, ACPI can be disabled in favor of APM or no power management and the associated hardware resources become available.

Intel had full ISA support all the way up to ICH5 south bridge. Later chipsets had partial ISA support without DMA.[/quote]
Ok, so its shame there is not column for that on wikipedia, when is there some column for that for previous chipsets..

Its someone using Linux for these machines? Ss backup and for copy files and usb,networking etc.. it could be handy. Which distro and which version is best one? New distros i thing have some old HW deprecated they require lots of memory, minum 700 MHz cpus etc.. its too much for Socket 7 machines..
I for example wanted to backup Windows folder, but inside Windows 98, i cant make copy because some files are in use and copy file copy performance sucks..

ruthan wrote:

@Appiah4: 1. Ok, ISA slots are must have to better sound card support. 2+3. Ok. 4. No multiplie change sucks, there are some oth […]
Show full quote

@Appiah4:
1. Ok, ISA slots are must have to better sound card support.
2+3. Ok.
4. No multiplie change sucks, there are some other utility to mess with it in DOS?
5. What is name of this cooler, or its some custom made?
6.Ok
7. There is always the best for particular case, my preferences are simply most compatible for that as possible and fast as possible, lots of slots is also advantages.

4. No, the intel CPUs are hard-locked multiplier-wise, you can't manipulate (most of) them. The ones you can manipulate through jumpers or BIOS can not be manipulated by software. Intel has always been, and is still, anal about segmenting their products and limiting overclocking (in this case downclocking) options.
5. It's a regular OEM cooler many system builders like Dell, Compaq, HP etc. used in their PCs.
6. In that case just find a 440BX Slot-1 board with 3+ ISA slots.

ruthan wrote:

Its someone using Linux for these machines? Ss backup and for copy files and usb,networking etc.. it could be handy. Which distro and which version is best one? New distros i thing have some old HW deprecated they require lots of memory, minum 700 MHz cpus etc.. its too much for Socket 7 machines..
I for example wanted to backup Windows folder, but inside Windows 98, i cant make copy because some files are in use and copy file copy performance sucks..

Puppy Linux Retro 4.1.2 works like a charm on my Pentium II 333 Dell Dimension XPS D333.

The passive cooler mentioned above is Zalman CNPS6000-Cu. I think I still have a couple lying around 😁 There was also an Alu-Cu version where only the central part was made of copper.

ruthan wrote:

Thanks for responses.

@ dionb
3. Ok, but there are still MBs with ISA and 1400 CPU support? Or what is fastest CPU for MB,where i can still have ISA slots?

Native Tualatin support with ISA is rare, but it certainly exists and there have been many threads here on Vogons dedicated to them. Less natively, you can use a lot of later BX boards with Tualatin CPUs with an FC-PGA2 (or modded FC-PGA) slocket with ISA galore.

Even if you leave out Tualatin, a 1GHz Coppermine runs rings around a 600MHz K6-3+.

5. What is made of this cooler - characters on picture are too small, do you have some picture how it looks in operation, its hard to imagine..

Zalman CNPS-6000

Mounted on a CPU on a slocket, with the regular 80mm fan replaced by a huge low-noise Noctua 120mm:

What it looks like in the case:

6. Im using HimemX or Burnmem for Limiting Dos (for me 64 MB, more generate problems with more games, with 64MB only few games like Alladin are not working) / Win98 memory (1100 MB are safe, with patches, for more you need paid Rloew Patch i dont need more..), JEMMEX is also solution... but for XP and Linux more is better.

Tbh, I think you're trying to do too much with one machine. Yes, you can run every OS on a single computer, but it involves a lot of compromises, causes issues and takes you far, far away from anything like period-correct.

7. Look at point 7 above. - 7. There is always the best for particular case, my preferences are simply most compatible for that as possible and fast as possible, lots of slots is also advantages.

Does not compute. Most compatible is rarely as fast as possible. Focus a bit more...

ruthan wrote:

Its someone using Linux for these machines? Ss backup and for copy files and usb,networking etc.. it could be handy. Which distro and which version is best one? New distros i thing have some old HW deprecated they require lots of memory, minum 700 MHz cpus etc.. its too much for Socket 7 machines..
I for example wanted to backup Windows folder, but inside Windows 98, i cant make copy because some files are in use and copy file copy performance sucks..

I use a lot of Linux, with the main 'desktop' and backup machine in my retro area running Lubuntu on an nForce3 AGP motherboard with Phenom II quadcore. I also use an old Knoppix release (4.0, from 2004) as a diagnostic & test CD for PCI-based systems, but most definitely not for regular (inter)networking. 15-year old Linux is as insecure as an unpatched Windows XP install 😮

Linux used to be great for keeping old hardware useful past whatever date Microsoft and hardware vendors decided to end support, but that has changed dramatically over the past few years. Almost all current distros are compiled with flags requiring SSE2. That means you need at least a Pentium 4 or Athlon64. Moreover, a lot of the libraries assume 686 CPU, so even if you were to recompile for -march 586, it still wouldn't work. Now, it is possible to work around this, all the way down to 486 level if necessary, but you end up with a lot of work, and running some very non-standard software to do it. That's what things like Puppy do, and it will work, but it's a limiting compromise. Note that Puppy 4.2.1 mentioned above is ancient (2014) and so should not come anywhere near public internet. Puppy 8 is the current version.

On my to-do list is to try and do a real bare-bones Gentoo build that will run and do hardware detection on a 486 with 64MB of RAM, but given experience over 10 years ago of doing the same, that will take a LONG time and be extremely limited in functionality.

The big thing to consider with networking is that web browsing has truly exploded in terms of requirements. A single browser tab can easily overload two 2GHz CPU cores and eat 1GB of RAM. If you want to do browsing, just forget about using old single-core systems like we're discussing here. Instead, have a more modern system next to the old ones and do things like browsing for drivers/apps there, then use something simple like FTP to get the stuff onto the old beasts. As for backup, easiest by far is just to remove the whole HDD and copy it in another system. That's also totally OS-independent, so no need to shoehorn Linux onto a system that's too limited for it to run well.

dionb wrote:

Native Tualatin support with ISA is rare, but it certainly exists and there have been many threads here on Vogons dedicated to them. Less natively, you can use a lot of later BX boards with Tualatin CPUs with an FC-PGA2 (or modded FC-PGA) slocket with ISA galore.

I prefer VIA 694T boards for these kinds of builds, but even if you go with an i810/815 without ISA slots there are PCI chipsets that are genuine OPL3 and work with these early ICH chipsets flawlessly in Win9x such as AZFIN3328 or very good clones that work similarly well like the FM801.