Matrox Millennium 2 and a Voodoo 2 is all you need, if you can handle the legendarily bad video output of the Voodoo 1/2 passthrough cable (it become way more apparent if you use an LCD monitor!). Anything more would actually be a bottleneck with the K6-2 and GeForce cards are kind of a hit or miss on the video quality. Stay away from ATI, there are much better solutions.

If you can, I suggest going for a Voodoo 3 card, preferably a PCI version, as getting AGP to work like it's supposed to on Super 7 boards is quite a hassle. I have the same motherboard as you and the Voodoo 3 would run slower than a Voodoo 1... 😐
The Voodoo 3 is a top card, it will be bottlenecked by the K6-2, but it provides excellent VESA support, some truly remarkable video quality and mostly effortless support for Glide. Also, it should run everything up until 2000-2001 with that CPU in mind.

To avoid the passthrough cable quality issue, you can use a VGA switch box and plug everything in directly!

Matrox Millennium 2 and a Voodoo 2 is all you need, if you can handle the legendarily bad video output of the Voodoo 1/2 passthrough cable (it become way more apparent if you use an LCD monitor!).

I've been using the Matrox/Voodoo combination with a 486 and in a Skt 5 board - fortunately I'm using an old Medion 17" CRT. Quality looks OK.

If you can, I suggest going for a Voodoo 3 card, preferably a PCI version, as getting AGP to work like it's supposed to on Super 7 boards is quite a hassle. I have the same motherboard as you and the Voodoo 3 would run slower than a Voodoo 1...

As it happens I have a PCI Voodoo 3 (which I somehow forgot) so this would neatly solve any passthrough issues. It's only ever been used in sub-par builds so far - I used it with a Pentium MMX 166 Overdrive in a Socket 5 system 😖 - so it has never really been unleashed! I think I have a tendency to over-spec graphics cards on lower end systems... just don't like to see an empty AGP slot I suppose!

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

To avoid the passthrough cable quality issue, you can use a VGA switch box and plug everything in directly!

That's a great solution as well!

Since you have a Voodoo 3 PCI use it and you're set! 🤣

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

To avoid the passthrough cable quality issue, you can use a VGA switch box and plug everything in directly!

or just unplug the monitor from your 2D card and into the 3D card when the game starts

I wonder if this mobo (MS-5169) will work OK with a Voodoo3 AGP card, if the latest mobo BIOS and ALi AGP driver are used? I noticed that MSI still have these files available for download. As Voodoo3 cards are cheap on ebay, I think it's worth investigating. Regarding image quality, I have found that AGP Voodoo3 2000 models are fractionally better than AGP Voodoo3 3000 models. Also, they are well made and I haven't come across any dead ones yet. You can also overclock them considerably, and they still won't die. If you really OC them, they show artifacts on the screen, but they still live.

When I tested a bunch of Voodoo2 cards, I noticed that the Creative models provided the best image quality. If you combine it with a good card like your Matrox Millenium (I is fractionally better than II, in terms of image quality), and a good quality pass-through cable, then the image quality is acceptable.

retro games 100 wrote:

I wonder if this mobo (MS-5169) will work OK with a Voodoo3 AGP card, if the latest mobo BIOS and ALi AGP driver are used? I noticed that MSI still have these files available for download. As Voodoo3 cards are cheap on ebay, I think it's worth investigating. Regarding image quality, I have found that AGP Voodoo3 2000 models are fractionally better than AGP Voodoo3 3000 models. Also, they are well made and I haven't come across any dead ones yet. You can also overclock them considerably, and they still won't die. If you really OC them, they show artifacts on the screen, but they still live.

When I tested a bunch of Voodoo2 cards, I noticed that the Creative models provided the best image quality. If you combine it with a good card like your Matrox Millenium (I is fractionally better than II, in terms of image quality), and a good quality pass-through cable, then the image quality is acceptable.

I fail to see how the image quality can be different between Voodoo 3's when the only real difference is the clock speed.

sliderider wrote:

I fail to see how the image quality can be different between Voodoo 3's when the only real difference is the clock speed.

You don't know DAC

Voodoo2's much blurrier because of the DAC filter used to simulate 32-bit images by processing the dithering it outputs within the buffer. In addition, there's some signal loss when using the provided VGA pass-through cable.

Voodoo Banshee, Voodoo3/4/5 do not exhibit this problem.

I use a Voodoo2 because I am nostalgic about the quality loss, it's a unique look that no other video card can ever hope to reproduce and I wish a GLSL shader were written to simulate the infamous blurry Voodoo2 output 😜

leileilol wrote:

You don't know DAC […]
Show full quote

sliderider wrote:

I fail to see how the image quality can be different between Voodoo 3's when the only real difference is the clock speed.

You don't know DAC

Voodoo2's much blurrier because of the DAC filter used to simulate 32-bit images by processing the dithering it outputs within the buffer. In addition, there's some signal loss when using the provided VGA pass-through cable.

Voodoo Banshee, Voodoo3/4/5 do not exhibit this problem.

I use a Voodoo2 because I am nostalgic about the quality loss 😜

We're not talking about Voodoo 2's, though. He said that Voodoo 3 2000's have slightly better image quality than Voodoo 3 3000's.

retro games 100 wrote:

"Regarding image quality, I have found that AGP Voodoo3 2000 models are fractionally better than AGP Voodoo3 3000 models."

What the heck is wrong with this thing. i tried to do an edit not a quote.

In my SS7 system, I have an AMD K6-3 550 with 256MB PC-100. I've tried a few graphics cards and eventually settled on a Creative TNT2 Ultra AGP with 2 VooDoo 2's in SLI.

I originally had a GF2 MX-400 in there, but it was so overpowered compared to the rest of the system it just didn't feel right. The TNT2 Ultra performs the same as the GF2 in 99% of games I've tried. The TNT2 ultra was king back in 1997, and I don't think a K6-2/3 will handle many 1999 games very well, which was when a GF2 was in it's prime.

The VooDoo 2's let me play Glide games, a must have for any SS7 gaming system. Having 2 let's you play in 1024x768, and considering thats the native res for the majority of old 4:3 LCD's. it's also a must have.

I tried an ATI Rage 128 Ultra which performed similar to the TNT2 Ultra, so I really went with compatability and cosmetic looks. For an older S7 system, such as a Pentium 1 machine, the TNT2 Ultra and V2's would be overkill. My vanilla P200 has a Matrox Mystique 2MB PCI and a 3Dfx VooDoo 1 4MB. If I had a chance I would swap the Mystique with a Millenium just to get the nicer windows clarity. But it's not much of a difference.

Personally for me with Socket 7 AGP the only cards I suggest are Voodoo Banshee/3/4/5. The reason is that they don't use any AGP features. They only use AGP as a 66 MHz PCI essentially. This bypasses all the problems with those Socket 7 chipsets.

Some other cards may or may not work. Some seem like they're working but may lock up randomly after prolonged gaming.

Another thing to consider is that cards prior to GeForce and Radeon didn't really benefit tangibly from AGP. So you can just run PCI editions and save yourself potential problems. For that matter, Socket 7 CPUs can't max out a Voodoo3/TNT2/G400/Rage 128 anyway.

whitewell wrote:

Hi all. I'm a long time lurker here and found these forums utterly invaluable during my time messing about with 486 (GA-486VS an […]
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Hi all. I'm a long time lurker here and found these forums utterly invaluable during my time messing about with 486 (GA-486VS and UM8810-PAIO) and Socket 5 (Asus PCI/I P54TP4) builds - most notably RG100's AM5x86 experiments.

However, I've finally grown a bit bored with that era of machine so I thought it was time to move on to Socket 7. My parents bought a horrible Time PC with a Gemlight GMB-P57SAX mATX board and a Cyrix M-II PR333 in 1998 - I put up with the onboard SiS 5598 graphics for ages before buying a GeForce 2 MX PCI - rather a mismatch, I know. It performed pretty badly and never played what I wanted it to - more irritating was that Pentium IIs were on offer at the time and even at the age of 12 I knew they were better. Bah.

To put this right, I've already bought an MS-5169 board and an AMD K6-2/500. I already own a small collection of graphics cards, both AGP and PCI, so I was wondering what you lot might recommend:

GeForce 256 32MB AGP
GeForce 4 MX 420 AGP (possibly 64MB?)
GeForce 2 MX 32MB AGP or PCI
ATi Rage 128 Ultra 16MB AGP
Creative Blaster Voodoo 2 12MB PCI

I do have others, but I'm not sure a Matrox Millennium II is worth mentioning. Feel free to suggest other cards I don't own!

I am not really looking to play games per se, more to simply test. I've always been intrigued by 3dfx and Glide, so I will include the Voodoo 2 alongside whichever card is best - I'd probably go for the GeForce 256, but would the K6-2 be a bottleneck? It will run Win98SE and hopefully have 256MB RAM if I can find some which works.

If you still have the 5598 board, you should keep it 😉
And the same goes for the Cyrix chip (even though it's not as good as any Pentium).

Out of those graphics cards, I'd say try the GF2MX PCI as it's PCI and has relatively little power consumption.
It doesn't matter if your GF2MX PCI is the crippled version as it'll be more then enough for any Super 7 anyway 😉

sliderider wrote:

What the heck is wrong with this thing. i tried to do an edit not a quote.

It's just a n00by moment. Everyone here has them from time to time 🤣, nothing to worry about hehe ;D

If you still have the 5598 board, you should keep it

Unfortunately it was thrown away some years ago... still, I might at some point be persuaded to try to find the same board and start again.

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I'll experiment with various combinations to see which is best. I'll probably end up throwing Return to Castle Wolfenstein at it.... it was almost playable on a 350MHz Deutsches P-II with the Rage 128 Ultra.

swaaye wrote:

Personally for me with Socket 7 AGP the only cards I suggest are Voodoo Banshee/3/4/5. The reason is that they don't use any AGP features. They only use AGP as a 66 MHz PCI essentially. This bypasses all the problems with those Socket 7 chipsets.

Good point, swaaye.

Early, "first generation" AGP implementation in Socket 7 boards was "prototypical" in nature. Better to stick with PCI or an "AGP-based-but-doesn't-use-AGP-features" card for a S7. Later Super Socket 7 boards may have improved support for AGP boards, but try to stick with PCI for any S7 or SS7 based systems. Go for AGP in a Pentium II system onwards.

Personally, for Socket 7 systems, since I use Windows 3.x heavily, I prefer to use a card with native Windows 3.x high res support driver.

And I tend to choose a graphics card which has native Windows 3.x driver support, since they seem to have good dos level compaibility at the same time. (As far as I can remember and with the cards that I have used.)

And I also tend to look up at Scitech Display Doctor Driver v6.53's readme.txt file for supported chipsets, since they will make dos gaming/general use a pleasant experience. (Though I don't necessarily load the SDD drivers per se.)

For SVGA selection for use in DOS/Win3.x system, I generally cross-check and choose the ideal card which satisfy the following criterias:

a. Supported chipsets listed in SDD 6.53 readme.txt file. (The Scitech Display Doctor version 6.53 is the last dos/win 3.x version, which was made free.)

and

b. Windows 3.x native driver support

c. Good dos games compatibility

d. The immediately available card or which is accessible in the near future. If getting from sites like ebay, the price should be extremely cheap. These cards are not used much outside of vintage pc enthusiasts community and shoul not be sold with exhorbitant prices. (Also make sure that the seller is NOT aware that we're looking for them. Hehehe... Some sellers list a very high price if he/she knows it's a vintage item, and beiing searched by enthusiasts / collector.)

swaaye wrote:

Personally for me with Socket 7 AGP the only cards I suggest are Voodoo Banshee/3/4/5. The reason is that they don't use any AGP features. They only use AGP as a 66 MHz PCI essentially. This bypasses all the problems with those Socket 7 chipsets.

Some other cards may or may not work. Some seem like they're working but may lock up randomly after prolonged gaming.

Another thing to consider is that cards prior to GeForce and Radeon didn't really benefit tangibly from AGP. So you can just run PCI editions and save yourself potential problems. For that matter, Socket 7 CPUs can't max out a Voodoo3/TNT2/G400/Rage 128 anyway.

How about i740. I heard that card doesn't use any AGP features, either. 😜

Using the cards that you have with that AMD 500, I would shoot for the Rage 128 and the Voodoo2. But if your in the market to buy, I would slap a Voodoo3 in there. It would more then likely be cheaper then adding a second Voodoo 2, but a pair of Voodoo's are tempting isn't it.

Using the cards that you have with that AMD 500, I would shoot for the Rage 128 and the Voodoo2. But if your in the market to buy, I would slap a Voodoo3 in there. It would more then likely be cheaper then adding a second Voodoo 2, but a pair of Voodoo's are tempting isn't it.

Yes it is, and sadly I did have a second CT6670 but it no longer works - at least I have the VGA crossover cable and SLI cables ready and waiting for a replacement.

leileilol wrote:

... and I wish a GLSL shader were written to simulate the infamous blurry Voodoo2 output 😜

Well, thats no problem. If you want, I will write you a shader that will simulate it easily. Capture the screen, copy to buffer, create texture out of it, blur it a bit and blend it with the current image. Piece of cake 😁