VOGONS


Reply 100 of 176, by Vipersan

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Change of plan ..
I figure I have pushed this 286 as far as it can go ..
It makes for a very nice dos build but is very restrictive when it comes to peripherals.
I am happy with the progress I made and have learned much along the way..
Many thanks for all your input guys...it is much appreciated.
But ..
I am now considering swapping out the motherboard for a DIAMOND FLOWER, INC.

386SX-16CN/20CN ....having picked one up recently.

The case will accomodate it I think ..having measured and compared dimensions.
The 286 mobo will be popped in an anti static bag and stored safely...but since I have never built a 386 from scratch ..this too will be an education.
I wont be aiming for 486 as I already have one.
So ..a change of direction for me ..and more fun to come during this lockdown period.
rgds 2 all ...and stay safe.
VS

Reply 101 of 176, by kool kitty89

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FazzaGBR wrote on 2020-04-16, 11:31:

Could you get an IDE card that accepts larger hard drives?

IDE adapters with their own BIOSes onboard can allow that, and I'm pretty sure the XTIDE cards do that (glitchworks or lo-tech style cards), but some 90s era IDE adapters also featured that sort of thing.

The most common ISA (and VESA) IDE cards seem to be the simpler type though. (simple IDE to ISA bridge)

There's some older IDE/floppy controller cards with their own BIOSes onboard, too, but I don't think they'd support ATA-standard compatible translation if they predate that standard.

I have one like this:
Need help on this Promise ISA caching controller
(except mine has an AMD 186-12 and not the Intel one in that picture)

Promise P99221 (P/N 41209900)
'PROMISE SUPERIDE HARD DRIVE CONTROLLER'

With 1992 dates on the BIOS, but I believe that's just related to the caching functionality. It might not even natively support 504 MB drives with caching functionality enabled. (it can probably work as a basic IDE interface as well, though ... I assume that's what it does when no drivers for it are installed: I've only used it in that manner and it seemed to behave like my plain IDE+FDD card and multi I/O IDE+FDD+serial+LPT+Gameport card)

And good luck with that 386SX build, Vipersan. Though at 16 MHz you might not be that far ahead of the 286, also depending on the chipset though there's probably a good amount of overclocking headroom, too even though you're stuck with a surface mounted CPU.

Using EMM386 is also simpler than finding and configuring some chipset specific EMS drives (though the D60 ones at least are really straightforward, I haven't gotten the Suntac ones working yet and can't try the C&T ones unless I fix that 1212C's RAM issues).

Though I have noticed there seems to be a performance hit with EMM386 enabled compared to running in real-mode, at least for several benchmarks. (true for my 386SX-40 and 486 board)

Some 386SX boards use chipsets with hardware EMS bank-switching support, so that might be worth trying too. I'm not sure if BIOS EMS configuration is necessary for that to work or simply driver/software configuration. (I have a Headland HT18 based 386SX-25 board that doesn't seem to have any EMS features in the BIOS, but that chipset is supposed to support it in hardware: apparently it uses drivers also compatible with the unsupported/experimental EMS functionality in the HT102 chipset)

https://pcem-emulator.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3060

My 386SX-40 is a PCChips 396 with SARC marked/branded chipset, and I'm not sure if it has any hardware EMS support, though I've seen something similar on one or two 286 boards on ebay. (OTOH some late 286 boards used 386DX/SX compatible chipsets that omit EMS support, I think: the ACT based 286 boards seem to lack it and the same part number is present on ACT 386 chipset boards)

See this 386DX40 board:

http://www.amoretro.de/2012/08/act-386-cache- … simm-slots.html
http://www.amoretro.de/wp-content/uploads/act … ram_sockets.jpg

features the A27C001

Same as in Kix's 286 board:
Kixs's 286 to the Max

I have 2 boards with that same chipset, one with 4 SIPP sockets and 1MB DIPP sockets (hangs at POST before RAM test) and one with 2MB DIP sockets (an EAT-12 motherboard) that was working when I got it, but stopped a day after I actually ran some tests in DOS.

That chipset is obscure enough to have very few references to it and nothing about EMS drivers. The most I got was:
http://www.motherboards.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=738725
"ACT = Advanced Computer Technology LTD, Hongkong they made chipsets in the past but were only famous for the 386dx40 and early 486 chipsets."

OTOH, EMS support is most demanding in games, I think, and if you want to try for windows 3.11, the 386SX might have some more advantages there, and I know runs in protected mode much faster than 286 protected mode. (I'm pretty happy using DOS shell for these older machines and jumping over to a 9x rig or modern PC for exchanging files or such on the older systems) But windows would interesting to try for comparison and for some win 3.x specific games maybe.

One of my interests in 286 systems is trying to work out how much software that claims to require a 386 or higher is actually 16-bit real-mode software. So far it's looking like programs with an explicit EMS requirement listed are 286 (and sometimes 8088/8086 and/or 188/186/V20/V30) compatible.

The fastest 286 systems might still be less than ideal for running much of that software, they seem to do it as well or better than 386SX and possibly some slow 386DX or 486 boards at the same clock speeds. And even then there's probably a good number of programs that work well on 16-20 MHz systems.

(I'll have to go check with a 386 in that Opti board of mine, it's possible the DRAM controller is just really optimized for cache operations in 486 mode and might have some differences when running a 386 ... or it might still be cache-bound then and perform horribly with the board level cache disabled: the Cx486 @120mhz is currently much slower than my 386SX-40 in cacheless configuration)

Hmm, I'm also assuming these late 286 and 386SX chipsets are the cacheless sorts, too, but some had a small amount of embedded cache inside the chipset itself. (even just 256 bytes of cache can make a big difference)

Oh and a word of warning: if you're reseating or otherwise removing and reinserting the keyboard controller, don't mix that up with the FPU/NPU socket. It may be harmless on some boards (seems to be when I made the mistake on my M205) but it might be part of what went wrong with my EAT-12. (there were other issues like a chipped/cracked ceramic capacitor and the RAM sockets were already a little flakey on that board, especially in the base 512kB region, so it might just be that, but also might be damage related to the keyboard controller incident: the controller itself still works on other boards, and no obvious capacitor pops or such, but one of the TTL chips or transistors might have been damaged I think, but my electrical engineering knowledge is pretty basic and in any case I haven't compared just what that mis-matched pinout combination would do)

Some boards also have fuses onboard that can easily blow when things are inserted wrong, so that's something to check and usually easy to replace. (I couldn't find one in my case ... they're usually obvious axial-mounted green pico fuses, but might be something harder to notice)

Hmm, though I guess that doesn't matter on 386/SX boards like it does on 286s.

Reply 102 of 176, by kool kitty89

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OK, I got a second MB1212C (this time at a much more reasonable price, and with i80C287-12 and 2x 70 ns 1Mx9-bit SIPPs) and it's an earlier model going by the serial number and BIOS revision number and the AMI BIOS is different.

The BIOS lacks the ability to disable/ignore parity, but otherwise has the same features as the later one and more: it has a utility to manually set most of the chipset registers (though there may also be a SCAT chipset utility for DOS that also does that).

I was able to sort out the problem on that first board this way: manually selecting the DRAM bank control bits there's options for:
1 or 2 banks of 256k DRAM or 1 bank of 256k + 1 bank of 64k
(those settings double for banks of 4x 4-bit dips or 2x 9-bit SIPPs)
then there's:
1, 2, 3, or 4 banks of 1M DRAM (so nominally SIPPs or SIMMs instailled as 1, 2, 3, or 4 pairs: the last 2 options would only be relevant on boards with 8x SIMM/SIPP sockets or maybe using 4x SIMM extender modules ... but given the board doesn't like the oddball 2Mx9-bit SIMMs I have, I doubt the latter would work on this particular board, and 4M SIMMs don't work either or only work as 2M ones)

I got it working in 1MB DIP (POST shows 640k, the remaining 384kB is shadow RAM or EMS, or I think can be mapped to UMA like most C&T chipsets allow).
Then at 2MB and at 4MB, but backed off to 2 MB. (and the problematic board that was stuck at 512k seems to have sensitive or dirty SIPP socket contacts, so I've had to reseat them a few times to properly show up, especially with parity enabled)

I installed an oscillator socket in the older board and got it working at 20 MHz, but it won't boot above that (will sometimes post at 24, I haven't tried 21~23 due to lack of appropriate oscillators) and get parity errors after the RAM warms up. (I only have 1 1Mx9-bit 60 ns SIMM and the 4M ones don't seem to be stable either, so I had to dig through 70 ns modules to find one that'd do 60 ns ish and runs OK if kept cold)

It'd probably be more solid with 70 ns RAM at 16 to 18 MHz and 0 WS. (don't have a 36 MHz oscillator to try ... though I could probably use a 66 MHz one with the turbo switch jumpered for 16.667 MHz)

And I have 60 ns DIP 256kx4-bit RAM, but that's be limited to the 1MB configuration, so 640K + 384k EMS max, and no HMA or XMS. (from what I can see the C&T chipset allows the upper 384kB to be used as UMA, shadow RAM, or EMS and no HMA/XMS, unlike the Suntac, but like the D60 ... except the latter doesn't support UMA at all, just shadow or EMS)

With parity disabled (by swapping to the later BIOS), it seems to go OK. No parity or A20 errors or game crashes. (possibly very minor rendering errors, but I noticed more on my D60 board at 25 or 27 MHz: like a few stuck pixels in X-Wing, especially on the radar screens)

I left the DMA and ISA clocks at 1/4 CPU clock (so 1/4 x40 MHz, 10 MHz bus) and set it to 2 wait states. (1WS works fine at 24/4 MHz, couldn't get 24/2 stable, though) And Quick Mode seems to cause IDE to fail even at max wait states, so I left it off. (QuickMode is the ALE, address latch enable, toggle, which allows multiple bus transfers per ISA clock, so I assume it's not stable with it on and wasn't very stable with it at 12 MHz even)

The 80C287-12 would not run stable at 20 MHz.

Landmark6 ranked it as a 31 MHz AT and 3DBench 1.0 did 8.1 or 8.3 (CL-5420 did the slightly faster one, an ATMOS AVGA-1 the slower). And X-Wing's detect gave about 145-150 ticks, which is close to the same as the D60 at 25 MHz.

Enabling 1 wait state made all the 70 ns RAM I have (and 80 is probably fine to), but was much slower, slower than the D60 boards (M205 and H988) at the same clock speed. Landmark6 gave 23 or 24 MHz (vs 27 MHz for the D60) and X-Wing shows about 212-218 ticks (vs 196-202-ish ticks on the D60). So 0 WS 16 MHz would probably be faster for most things, or maybe 13-15 MHz if overclocking the stock 12 MHz CPU. (those hot NMOS 286s also probably need more airflow to overclock much, even the 'low power' AMD 80L286 runs quite hot)

Up to 13.5 MHz would probably be pretty easy to do without extra cooling and all those 12 MHz chips are rated to 12.5 MHz officially, so even a 24 to 25 MHz oscillator swap would get a small boost. (12.0 is pretty conservative) And 80C286-12 chips should overclock better. (but then, if a machine didn't come with one already, 16 and 20 MHz models are more common and as cheap or cheaper from ebay sellers, and even the possibly-remarked/very-convincing 20 MHz 1997 date code Harris ones seem to do fine, just might not overclock any further: the matching date codes on those are either signs of remarking or genuine new old stock ... or socket pulls from some big lot of new-old-stock hardware ... or mass recycled corporate/business hardware originally purchased all at the same time)

Anyway, without any further utilities, it seems necessary to do BIOS swaps to use all feature tweaks here, unless an intermediate revision of BIOS added parity control but retained the direct register access utility. So I'll need to dump which ever one of these isn't already out there. (also have backups for myself and at least 1 copy of each BIOS version to keep with each board)

Given how finicky the auto-detect seems to be for RAM, and how the registers can get stuck, you really need manual register selection.

Additionally, that BIOS provided the added information that to clear or ignore XCMOS at boot time, you hold down the insert key while powering on and release it after the RAM test starts. (you can then enter XCMOS and it should be reset/zeroed, but will drop back to the previously saved settings if you don't save/write those new, reset values)

I think there is a clear CMOS jumper on the board, but I'm not sure which. I went and just toggled every jumper on the board (swapped positition and then swapped back to what it had been previously) and seemed to clear the BIOS settings. The online jumper settings on Stason and that other site seem to lack info on which jumper it is, though so I'll have to do trial and error at some point. (shorting the battery leads does not seem to clear CMOS on these boards)

Reply 103 of 176, by FazzaGBR

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Sounds like you're keeping busy and having some retro/vintage fun!

My personal website blog: https://www.retrocomputing.co.uk/ and my new Retro Computing YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL8UT2gm3EvNl2tvomN7reg

Reply 104 of 176, by kool kitty89

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I tried again and also got it working at 24 MHz, 1 wait state, but it's still much slower than at 20 MHz 0ws, but more stable and I think a bit faster than a 16 MHz 0WS 286.

I'll have to check again, but I think it's close to the performance (at least for X-Wing) of my Headland chipset 386SX-25. (which I think is stuck at 1WS) That one can probably overclock quite a bit, too, but I haven't tried yet.

I tried the 60 ns DIPs too, and they work in 1MB configuration, but are actually less stable at 0ws than the 60 and 70 ns SIMMs I've been using. The same RAM did well in the D60 boards and runs really cool, so I don't think it's particularly fake/remarked stuff, but it's not as happy in the MB1212C. (I haven't done an acetone test on the markings, but they looked pretty close to new old stock: the only odd thing was some packaging having different dimple locations or mold marks or a notch instead of pin-1 dimple, so I'm not sure they're actually Siemens parts, but I don't have definite-genuine ones to compare manufacturing style)

Reply 105 of 176, by Vipersan

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Hopefully I will soon be able to investigate the flowers 386 ..having cleaned up the corrosion left by a leaky battery..
I have a brand new replacement on order which is due to arrived tomorrow..
I have had the 386 board post..so that's good news.
I realised the fixed cpu could limit experiment but it will support more ram ...and does recognise a conner 400mb+ hard drive.

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Reply 106 of 176, by Vipersan

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After much tearing of hair ..I figured it time to consult the oracles of Vogons..
I need a DOS Guru I think ..as it would appear I'm out of my depth with this 386.
Bios is throwing up errors which I dont understand ?
What is the A20 line ..?
How do I correct this if I dont even understand what it is ?
I can grab some pix of the bios screens if it helps..
boot screen is pointing me at the config.sys
but this sort of looks ok.
Help !!!

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Reply 107 of 176, by Vipersan

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After much searching ..I am still none the wiser ..
But I think it has something to do with a shared control line for the keyboard Caps lock key ...
Not that this helps me any ..
https://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/kbd/A20.html
but it looks very much like an issue that didn't go away ...unless there is a bios patch to deal with it.
Surely someone out there has more info on this ?

..and it's not as though I can reload bios defaults on this system.
That provision must have been introduced much later.
Clearing the bios is a bloody nightmare on this one ..involving unhooking the bios battery ...disconnecting the psu ..and leaving the motherboard for many many hours..
Unless someone knows different ?
rgds
VS

Reply 109 of 176, by Vipersan

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evasive wrote on 2020-04-30, 20:04:

The 80C287-12 would not run stable at 20 MHz.

Running a chip at alomst twice the speed it is specced for will do that. The 12 stands for 12MHz...

Not sure what you are referring to buddy ??
This latest build is a 386 ..
rgds
VS

Reply 110 of 176, by Vipersan

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From my searches ..it would appear that this contol of the A20 line is a legacy thing first implemented during the 8080 times ..
In order to addres high memory they used this A20 line from the cpu ..
Problem was it was also used by the keyboards ...and this is how it ties in with the caps lock.
Usually implementation is done via the keyboard controller.
Im guessing there might have been something I could do in the X-setup part of the bios ...but having looked in there ignoring the warnings and making no changes ...It isn't very user friendly and I have no idea what those registers do ?
..and of course I cannot find a manual.
If only there was a simple way to restore bios defaults ?
I can only conclude whoever wrote this AMI bios was a sadist...

Reply 111 of 176, by evasive

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I have found a few bits and tricks to try and find out what is going on.
https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/10 … -installed.html

You may not need to restore the complete default settings, just set a few in the right way.

Reply 112 of 176, by Vipersan

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Thanks for the Link Evasive ..
I have made a copy of all the suggested solutions for when the problem returns.
So far it has not having already reset bios defaults by removing all power for over 48 hours..
at boot I only get one error atm.
This is " XCMOS Checksum failure"
Not sure if this a real problem or not ? ...or if this is normal behaviour after restoring defaults ?
any ideas ?
But at least the A20 error is no longer reported and Himem.sys appears to be invoked now..
I do wish I knew more about DOS and how it relates to bios.

Reply 113 of 176, by Vipersan

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I am hoping to eventually equip this 386 build with a CD-ROM ..
Not an easy task as my only real option is a plug in CD isa controller board ...which I dont have ..
OR ..an integrated CD controller on a sound card.
So ..I have chosen a CT-2230 ISA soundblaster 16 ..for the build..
This card I have a full set of driver disks for.
BUT ..what looks like IDE is I think proprietory.
..and I very few choices when it comes to low speed drives from this period.
I do have a couple of Creative pre 2000 drives ..but they dont appear to be supported.
The CT-2230 only has one pin header on board for creative drives which I believe are MKE Panasonic.
But there are unpopulated pin header points on the pcb for Mitsumi ..and Sony.
No other components missing ..so I cant see why I shouldn't fully populate the 2230 with the missing controller pin headers.
There is also a pin header block missing for 'drive type selection' ...so I will also add this missing header.
Why they weren't fitted I can only assume was to force the consumer to buy 'creative- panasonic'.
I will still have issues finding a suitable CD drive ..but at least my options increase.
Apparently the card/driver floppies can support

Creative-Panasonic :-
CR-521 ,CR-523 ,CR-CR563

Sony
CDU31A ,CDU 33A

Mitsumi
CRMC FX001D
CRMC FX001

anyone who has tried this before ..recently ..or in the past...advice welcomed
rgds
VS

Reply 114 of 176, by evasive

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Why they weren't fitted I can only assume was to force the consumer to buy 'creative- panasonic'.

Whenever logic fails: money. It is cheaper this way. Yes, tenths of dollarcents sometimes but if the production numbers are big enough, they will cut whaever they don't deem necessary...

Reply 115 of 176, by Vipersan

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evasive wrote on 2020-05-02, 13:41:

Why they weren't fitted I can only assume was to force the consumer to buy 'creative- panasonic'.

Whenever logic fails: money. It is cheaper this way. Yes, tenths of dollarcents sometimes but if the production numbers are big enough, they will cut whaever they don't deem necessary...

Makes sense ..
Cutting corners for pennies..
No change there then.

I have fitted those missing penny parts .
The blue box contains the original Panasonic header.
The yellow boxes ..the Mitsumi and Sony interface headers I just fitted.
The red box was a single pin header for just panasonic ...replaced with a block of 4 pin headers ..to select the relevant interface.
rgds
VS
...an easy job if it works ..but now I just have to find a suitable CD-ROM

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Reply 116 of 176, by Vipersan

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After much searching the only one I could find from that list was a
MITSUMI CD-ROM DRIVE CRMC-FX001DE
Location Nebraska
but I put in an offer which was accepted ...
..but as usual postage and import duties were twice the cost of the item.
This will be at least 2 weeks getting here..but then..
We are in lockdown ..so I'll find another project to be getting on with while I wait.

So far I have a Conner hard drive of 420mb prepared with DOS6.22 for this motherboard.
and maxed the RAM at 8mb.
..and replaced the MiMH battery ..
Slowly but surely.
..but patience was never one of my virtues..
😀

Reply 117 of 176, by kool kitty89

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A20 line errors would be related to access of the High Memory Area while in real-mode. From the 286 onward, or at least with systems supporting more than 1MB of address space, address line 20 (the 21st address line) was mapped through a logic gate that could be toggled between 8086 address wrapping compatibility.

The way x86 segment addresses are set up allows for almost 64kB of address space beyond 1MB to be addressed in real-mode on the 286 and 386, or nearly 64kB at least. That first 64kB block of memory just above the 1MB range is called the High Memory Area:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_memory_area
https://www.cs.yale.edu/flint/feng/cos/resour … S/himem_A20.htm

Really old boards (like the original IBM AT) use the keyboard controller to manage the A20 line via a discrete logic gate on the board. Later, integrated chipsets usually embedded the gate into the chipset.
On those later chipsets, you'll often see a 'fast A20 gate' option in the BIOS related to that, and disabling that may cause problems with DOS or any 286 or 386 protected mode software when accessing RAM in the high memory area.

In DOS with Highmem.sys loaded and dos set to High (DOS=High in config.sys), the high memory area is needed for loading portions of DOS, thus greatly reducing the footprint in the 640kB of base memory. (DOS 3.x and older can only load into the base memory region)

Highmem.sys enables an A20 line handler routine that can switch the A20 control gate so DOS can access the High Memory Area.

So if there's a problem with accessing the A20 line there should be errors being thrown related to it. (A20 gate is disabled in the BIOS, there's physical damage to the A20 gate, or the board is operating outside of sped ... or there's physical damage to the A20 line's trace on the board, or failing/failed capacitors or other components somewhere along that address line's connections on the board)

You'll also get A20 errors in some cases when the chipset and/or CPU and/or RAM is unstable. I get these sometimes with my M205 286 board, mostly when overclocked and sometimes at 20 MHz but only when extended memory is enabled and DOS is loaded high with Highmem.sys loaded. (or rather: extended memory and the 64kB high memory area, as the D60 chipset doesn't allow for HMA mapping without a full 512kB block of extended memory going along with it: that C&T chipset allows as little as 256kB of XMS and the Suntac one allows 64kB of the first 1MB to be used for the HMA)

Commenting out Highmem.sys in config.sys should remove A20 related errors but would pretty much be limited to troubleshooting purposes as extended memory would be inaccessible to the CPU, which is particularly important on a 386 based system. Though, if you could get the Headland H18 chipset EMS drivers working, you would actually have access of up to 16MB of base+expanded memory running straight from Real Mode and DOS loaded low. However, without DOS loaded high you're going to have issues with driver bloat in conventional memory and compatibility issues with programs that want close to 600 kB of base memory free. (and won't be able to use any protected mode software)

Or is it even a Headland chipset? For some reason I'd thought you'd said that earlier, but don't see it now.

Some other 386SX-specific (or 286+386SX supporting) chipsets include hardware EMS mapping support too, so that's useful since using EMM386 does hurt performance to some extent, especially on 386SX systems and can screw with both real-mode and protected mode software. (Jazz Jackrabbit really doesn't like it and most real-mode DOS benchmarks do more poorly with EMM386 loaded)

Given restoring BIOS defaults solved the problem, I'll bet the A20 gate got disabled in the BIOS. (or 'fast A20 gate' was switched off in the BIOS)
The only time I've actually gotten Highmem.sys complaining about "can't access A20 line" is when I'd switched off the fast A20 gate option in the BIOS.

Even that overclocked M205 board didn't throw complaints from Highmem.sys failing to access the A20 line. It just crashes in DOS at times (usually after running warm for a while) and drops to a black screen with "A20 error" text printed. (which might be from DOS or might be the BIOS)

And CMOS checksum errors are usually related to lack of (or a bad) backup battery or the CMOS data getting corrupted by an unstable CPU and/or chipset. (either the CPU or CMOS registers causing write errors or possibly the CPU running too fast for the BIOS ROM and current wait state settings)

Reply 118 of 176, by kool kitty89

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Vipersan wrote on 2020-05-02, 14:28:
After much searching the only one I could find from that list was a MITSUMI CD-ROM DRIVE CRMC-FX001DE Location Nebraska but I p […]
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After much searching the only one I could find from that list was a
MITSUMI CD-ROM DRIVE CRMC-FX001DE
Location Nebraska
but I put in an offer which was accepted ...
..but as usual postage and import duties were twice the cost of the item.
This will be at least 2 weeks getting here..but then..
We are in lockdown ..so I'll find another project to be getting on with while I wait.

I'd thought IDE CD-ROM drives could be run by using one of the typical IDE interface cards or multi-IO cards for 16-bit ISA, but maybe that doesn't work if the motherboard BIOS lacks CD-ROM support.

I'd thought you just needed CD-ROM drivers for DOS to get around lack of BIOS recognition of the drive, sort of like drivers or utilities that bypass the BIOS hard disk handling routines or sort of like setting up SCSI devices.

I hadn't tried it yet and my inability to get master/slave drive combinations working with IDE hard drives also stopped attempts at that.

In any case, I suppose sound card IDE CD-ROM drivers would work around the issue and a number of cards have those, but earlier ones tended to have SCSI CD-ROM interfaces instead. (some Vibra 16s, AWE64 based boards, some Yamaha SB-compatible cards, OPTi based ones, and ESS AudioDrive based cards have IDE CD support)

So far I have a Conner hard drive of 420mb prepared with DOS6.22 for this motherboard.
and maxed the RAM at 8mb.

Are you sure it doesn't support 4MB SIMMs? Do you have any of those?

It could potentially do 16MB that way. My SX-40 based PCChips M396F and 386SX-25 Headland H18 board both support 4MB modules, the M396 only has 4 SIMM sockets, but the Headland board has 8 and only 4 get used with 4MB SIMMs.

It's actually possible to have a 386SX (or 286) system with more than 16MB support via EMS mapping (LIM EMS 4.0 supports 32MB) but the 3 or 4 chipsets I've looked at datasheets for explicitly state they only address up to 16 MB. Not that much software even supports that much expanded memory, let alone typical consumer grade stuff.

I'm going to assume the only hardware that actually supported the full 32MB of EMS would've been some high-end Expanded Memory ISA cards or 8-bit XT compatible cards. Like some crazy-expensive XT or AT class workstations or maybe servers. (I suppose an x86 based multi-user UNIX terminal host might make use of that much RAM, too ... except multi-user systems would generally want protected memory so 286 Extended Memory usage would be way more attractive there)

Reply 119 of 176, by Vipersan

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As usual K K ...a wealth of information to wade through.
I am convinced the A20 error in my case is somehow related to using ISA cards ..
It seems to appear after I have tried to fully populate all the ISA slots and say ..run an Adaptec SCSI card in the system ..or maybe after installing a network card and WFW 3.11 ..
This is why I reset bios defaults and started clean with just DOS 6.22.
So far the A20 error hasn't reappeared ..but then ..I have removed the scsi card and others ..
So as to just run with a VGA card ..Sound Card ...Controller and 8 bit port card.
In other words ..it could be that something else grabs control of the A20 line causing the bios issue reported earlier.
I may have to settle for the less is more approach.
The Chipset IS C & T ...in fact I removed and dumped the Bios chips to the Vogons 386 bios collection thread.
80386 BIOS image collection
Item #62
This is the mobo in question.
I just wish I could find a later bios release ..as this might well have the issues fixed.
Or just a copy of the mobo manual might help ..as the extended bios is confusing to me.
I was surprised at the time it took to actually reset defaults ..as the settings (with the error) persisted for over 24 hours even with the battery removed and no power applied to the motherboard.
How this was even possible remains a mystery to me.
Later boards might well have had a jumper to clear bios ...but sadly this one does not ...or at least ..I can't find one.

Re simms ...The largest I have are 1mb 9 chip simms ...which fully populated slots equate to 8mb ...so really I shouldn't have said maxed out ...as I could theoretically fit 4mb simms (according to the chart I have) ...and 16mb is possible ...just not for me 😉

rgds
VS