VOGONS


Reply 20 of 38, by H3nrik V!

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Are you trying with both cpus mounted? Somebody wrote here that you would need a second VRM for that (all though I can't see, where it would be placed) - so trying with a single cpu might be worth a shot?

Please use the "quote" option if asking questions to what I write - it will really up the chances of me noticing 😀

Reply 21 of 38, by luckybob

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H3nrik V! wrote on 2020-04-20, 20:59:

Are you trying with both cpus mounted? Somebody wrote here that you would need a second VRM for that (all though I can't see, where it would be placed) - so trying with a single cpu might be worth a shot?

If its the same board as the first image, the VRM is installed and it the blue caps in the top right.

If you go single cpu, you need a slot-2 terminator card. Just like a slot 1 or socket 370 dual setup.

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.

Reply 22 of 38, by red-ray

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I use a Matrox Millennium G450 AGP Dual Head in my MS440GX, which GPUs have you tried?

What post code do you get?

I gave attached the manuals in case you don't have them.

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Reply 23 of 38, by tegrady

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luckybob wrote on 2020-04-20, 20:53:

check the motherboard manual. I know my XG-DLS does NOT like 2/3 of the video cards out there, and only likes <256mb dimms. Go simple.

The manual says it can take up to 2gb of RAM. There are 4 slots, so it must accept 512mb DIMMS, right?

The DIMMS I bought match the requirements noted by the motherboard.

I have about 10 different AGP cards I can try, but I've never had a motherboard not like a video card, unless the video card was dead of course.

Reply 24 of 38, by tegrady

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luckybob wrote on 2020-04-20, 21:03:
H3nrik V! wrote on 2020-04-20, 20:59:

Are you trying with both cpus mounted? Somebody wrote here that you would need a second VRM for that (all though I can't see, where it would be placed) - so trying with a single cpu might be worth a shot?

If its the same board as the first image, the VRM is installed and it the blue caps in the top right.

If you go single cpu, you need a slot-2 terminator card. Just like a slot 1 or socket 370 dual setup.

Yes, it is the exact board in the picture. I do have the VRM installed (there is only a slot for 1 VRM).

Reply 25 of 38, by tegrady

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Also, I am using PC133 instead of PC100 RAM as it is much less expensive. The manual says it only accepts PC100, but isn't PC133 RAM compatible with PC100 motherboards? Thanks.

Reply 26 of 38, by tegrady

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red-ray wrote on 2020-04-20, 21:14:

I use a Matrox Millennium G450 AGP Dual Head in my MS440GX, which GPUs have you tried?

What post code do you get?

I gave attached the manuals in case you don't have them.

I only know the beep code, 1 long, 2 short. I don't have a post code reader to give me an actual error code number.

I'll get a list of the video cards I used later today or tomorrow. I think one was a TNT 2 and one was a Matrox Millenium of some sort. I was just going through my video card bin and pulling out random AGP cards.

I have a few Voodoo 3's as well, but I don't want to risk damaging them if the board is faulty.

Thanks.

Reply 27 of 38, by red-ray

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tegrady wrote on 2020-04-20, 23:22:

Also, I am using PC133 instead of PC100 RAM as it is much less expensive. The manual says it only accepts PC100, but isn't PC133 RAM compatible with PC100 motherboards? Thanks.

That may depend of the SPD. In my MS440GX I have as below so would expect 512 MB PC133 to be OK and run at 100 MHz. Maybe my system only works as it has 100MHz in some of the DIMMs SPD.

file.php?id=81176

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Reply 28 of 38, by tegrady

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OK. So I was going through the manual and I am wondering if the power supply is the issue.

Per the manual, they recommend 28 A on the 3.3v rail, 30.0 A on the 5v rail, 8.0 A on the +12v rail, 0.1 A on the -5v rail, 0.4 A on the -12v rail, 0.72 A on the +5v VSB rail. The power output of the 3.3 and 5v rails should be 220w. Total power output should be 300w.

The first power supply I tried had 20 A on the 5v, 20A on the 3.3v rail for 120w total watts, 37.5A on the 12v rail, 0.3 A on the -12v rail, 3A on the 5vsb rail. Total watts 450.

I then tried another older power supply that has more on the +5v rail. It's ratings are 22A on the 3.3v rail, 45A on the 5v rail - total of 213w, 20A on the +12v rail, 0.8A on the -12v rail, 0.5A on the -5v rail and 2.0A on the 5vsb rail.

It looks like none of my power supplies have all of the recommended specs noted in the manual.

Is it possible that the power supply is the issue? If so, does anyone know of a power supply that meets the requirements noted in the manual?

Thanks.

Reply 29 of 38, by Unknown_K

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You need to find a decent working P4 era Power supply for that unit. I have a 500W Thermaltake supply that came with a Xaser case that exceeded the 5v and 3.3v specs you listed. Old Athlon and P4 era power supplies are all 5V and heavy 3.3V with little in the 12V side .

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Reply 30 of 38, by Unknown_K

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Actually it might be this 480W supply:

http://www.modsynergy.com/review121.htm

+5V 40A
+3.3V 30A

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Reply 31 of 38, by PC Hoarder Patrol

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Got any better pics of the board & part numbers - it looks more like an OEM version rather than Intel retail as its missing the onboard NIC & audio and the power & panel connectors are different, possibly a Gateway 'Spearfish' (4M4SG0X0 - 4000060, 4000427, 400483) so may have a custom / limited bios.

https://web.archive.org/web/20011124122359/ht … 04323/index.htm

If its not a power issue on such a minimal setup, according to the manual the only one-two bios beep code is 98h (Search for option ROMs) and if you look at the Spec Update linked by @red-ray there's an issue with video card option ROMs bigger than 64KB which causes boot fails and hangs. Although it was fixed in in bios version P18, problem is P17 is the last Gateway version (assuming its their board).

Reply 33 of 38, by PC Hoarder Patrol

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I did think that, but I've seen a few posts where this was tried on these OEM boards using the later Intel bios versions (18 thru 20) and there were issues.

On the topic of the DRM, I thought I'd found a source of detailed images of the same on Wayback (ftp://download.intel.com/businesscomputing/wrkstn/drm)

DRM Design Files.jpg
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but it turned out there were only a few low-res JPEGs left 🙁

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Reply 35 of 38, by tegrady

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luckybob wrote on 2020-04-21, 23:30:

well, I do have good news.

I have a heatsink mount set. I got the box out sunday night.

Cool. I'll post some better pics next. Can you tell me if it will fit my board? Thanks.

Reply 36 of 38, by tegrady

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PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2020-04-21, 22:18:

Got any better pics of the board & part numbers - it looks more like an OEM version rather than Intel retail as its missing the onboard NIC & audio and the power & panel connectors are different, possibly a Gateway 'Spearfish' (4M4SG0X0 - 4000060, 4000427, 400483) so may have a custom / limited bios.

https://web.archive.org/web/20011124122359/ht … 04323/index.htm

If its not a power issue on such a minimal setup, according to the manual the only one-two bios beep code is 98h (Search for option ROMs) and if you look at the Spec Update linked by @red-ray there's an issue with video card option ROMs bigger than 64KB which causes boot fails and hangs. Although it was fixed in in bios version P18, problem is P17 is the last Gateway version (assuming its their board).

Here are the pics.

I noticed that the manual for the Gateway OEM board you noted above does not say anything about supporting ECC memory. It just says PC100 SDRAM. Is it possible that this board does not accept ECC Ram?

Also, how can I update the BIOS if the board won't post? Thanks.

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Reply 37 of 38, by PC Hoarder Patrol

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OK, pics confirm it as the 4000427 Gateway 'Spearfish' board (probably Release 1 - 98/99). The Intel 'AA' number doesn't help much as it's not listed in the Spec Update doc - I suppose it's possble that this OEM board version was in circulation before Intel released the retail MS440GX. However I'd guess it started life with a fairly early bios version, maybe P07, but unless it boots without error we can't check this.

The board definitely supports ECC memory, but interestingly it also apparently supports non-ECC memory from bios revision P09 onwards - maybe worth trying a single 128MB stick of this just to check if it boots. I found this info thru this link which is a lot more detailed than my previous one (the info about the memory is under 'Product Views > DIMM Configuration')

https://web.archive.org/web/20050129215625/ht … /M00427nv.shtml

It's always better to get the board POSTing properly, but if not most of these Intel board support force flashing the bios thru 'recovery mode' - you prepare a bootable floppy disk with an uptodate bios, set a jumper on the motherboard and boot with the floppy which will attempt a 'blind' bios update (no video, just beep codes) with a reboot after completion. Then you reset the motherboard jumper and hopefully you're good to go!.

Reply 38 of 38, by Katmai500

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I see you’re using Pentium II Xeon CPUs. Have you tried a PIII Xeon? The reason I ask is that I have this same board, and after I upgraded to the Gateway P17 BIOS it will only POST with a PIII Xeon. It refuses to POST with known good PII Xeons and gives no error beeps. So far I haven’t been able to find a copy of an earlier BIOS to experiment with this further. The PII Xeons worked fine on P10.