Those PB model names can differ strongly between markets... is it the same "Club 30" in this article?
https://planetbotch.blogspot.com/2012/12/pack … or-nothing.html

If so it had a GVC FR500 motherboard.

Good news: I have one.
Bad news: it's been converted into a mouse mat 😜
(all components removed, varnished and soft rubber applied to the bottom)

Other possibility is a Biostar M5SIB. Both are nearly identical in terms of size, specs and features (SiS 5598-based), but the FR500 had 4x 72p SIMM and the M5SIB had 2x 168p DIMM. The FR500 was used a lot more/longer than the M5SIB, which was rapidly replaced by the GVC FR520 (SiS530-based).

Yeah looks the same as that one.

I see there is one of these one ebay currently https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MB-Pb850-Audio-Vid … FsAAOSw-o9fMWSd
Not sure if it is the same as the FR500 but seems to be similar?

Will keep the biostar motherboard in mind.
Annoying this is that all seem to be in the US with expensive shipping. Think I'll hold out for a bit and see if any come up here in the UK. If not then might have to bear the cost of shipping.

Would the biostar be more reliable do you think?

"PB850" is Parckard Bell's internal name for the FR500, so yes, that's the board (at least, assuming your system had SIMMs not DIMMs). The M5SIB was referred to as "Pegase" - see here http://uktsupport.co.uk/pb/mb/pbmb1.htm

I'd consider that board idiotically overpriced for what was - it was bottom-scraping low-end stuff back in the day and would have cost less new. Problem finding this sort of thing is that basically nobody who is interested in what hardware they have would buy one, so your best chance is just to look for random low-end PB systems from the right period, and to do so locally. A lot of the other 'Club' systems, also ones in minitower chassis ("Squarius") had the same board. I'm looking for a quite different PB beast, a PB Bora Pro aka MSI MS-6168 v2.0 motherboard with i440BX and Voodoo3 onboard. Have two, but one fails to support Coppermine and the other has dodgy video memory, so still looking. Haven't spent more than EUR 35 on a likely system, and apart from the desired boards, I also found two FR520 boards. No FR500, but that's because I'm looking for one year newer and a different type of case. If you focus on the desktop chassis you already have (which will more commonly contain Intel MU440EX boards) and this Squarius I case you will probably find one soon enough:

Yeah fingers crossed I will find an old complete PB system that will do the job locally. I have checked around ebay etc every so often but recently I've been a bit more diligent in my searching as my parents recently moved a while back and they realised there was still loads of old 90's PC game big boxes in loft which I'd totally forgot about.
Spent ages finding manuals/cd's etc to make complete sets again as the boxes are basically mint condition.
So yeah I've been on a total retro obsession collecting old big box games and old PC/gaming magazines from that era.

And totally...There's no way I'd be spending that much money on a PB board from back then when you could get another board and components to get a fully working 98 system for the same price!

Just another quick Q - if I was to go with another motherboard, I take it as a rule most/all micro atx boards will fit?

Yes, that's a completely standard uATX case. Only slightly custom thing is the button/LED connector (single block with non-standard layout), but you can fit that on so that at least power button works.

In-between option is to look for another PB uATX board that would give you the PB BIOS splash screen and fit the button/LED connector.

Other PB uATX boards (with PB name behind vendor name):
Biostar M5SIB "Pegase"
GVC FR520 "Miami"
Intel MU440EX "Maui"
MSI MS-6147 "Tempest"
MSI MS-6168 "Bora Pro"
Gigabyte GA-6WMM "Apollo"
GVC DR724 "Skye"
MSI MS-6159 "Suva"
MSI MS-6323 "Luna"
Gigabyte GA-6WMM7 "Houston"

Note that if you want to use the PB Master CD you have, your hardware may not be any newer than the CD (and not too much older either...), so apart from GVC FR-500, probably only the Intel MU440EX is likely to work. Also, it's not just as simple as entering a Windows Product ID. If it's a 1997 system, it would be Windows 95 and the Master CD would have a part number starting with 20xxxxxxx or 22xxxxxxx. If it's Windows 98, it would be a 1998 system with part number starting with 24xxxxxxxx. Exactly what needs doing and how much of a pain in the rear end it is depends strongly on which version you have.

my 98 master cd's start with 66?

I am aware of course, that depending what parts I get the original master CD's won't work. If It's a case of having to have a bog standard install of 98 then so be it, but I really, REALLY would love to get those working if possible.
As said, I'm very patient so if I can get me mitts on a socket 7 board in the mean time that gets me going I can look out for a FR500 and swap components over later.

There is a MU440EX board that's not 'too' expensive. Might make him an offer and see if he accepts. Only thing is that it's a slot 1 which doesn't give me very good options for a processor for a 98 gaming rig?

Richy85 wrote on 2020-08-18, 18:02:

my 98 master cd's start with 66? […]
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my 98 master cd's start with 66?

I am aware of course, that depending what parts I get the original master CD's won't work. If It's a case of having to have a bog standard install of 98 then so be it, but I really, REALLY would love to get those working if possible.
As said, I'm very patient so if I can get me mitts on a socket 7 board in the mean time that gets me going I can look out for a FR500 and swap components over later.

There is a MU440EX board that's not 'too' expensive. Might make him an offer and see if he accepts. Only thing is that it's a slot 1 which doesn't give me very good options for a processor for a 98 gaming rig?

The fact that it's slot 1 isn't a problem, but it's got a 66MHz FSB and no AGP slot. Don't get it. A 440BX slot 1 board is fine for 98 when paired with a fast Coppermine P3 or Celeron.

Oetker wrote on 2020-08-18, 20:08:

Richy85 wrote on 2020-08-18, 18:02:

my 98 master cd's start with 66? […]
Show full quote

my 98 master cd's start with 66?

I am aware of course, that depending what parts I get the original master CD's won't work. If It's a case of having to have a bog standard install of 98 then so be it, but I really, REALLY would love to get those working if possible.
As said, I'm very patient so if I can get me mitts on a socket 7 board in the mean time that gets me going I can look out for a FR500 and swap components over later.

There is a MU440EX board that's not 'too' expensive. Might make him an offer and see if he accepts. Only thing is that it's a slot 1 which doesn't give me very good options for a processor for a 98 gaming rig?

The fact that it's slot 1 isn't a problem, but it's got a 66MHz FSB and no AGP slot. Don't get it. A 440BX slot 1 board is fine for 98 when paired with a fast Coppermine P3 or Celeron.

Don't knock it - it was never designed to handle Coppermines, but for a Mendocino Celeron board it's great:

- Rock-solid Intel chipset & board.
- PCI + ISA
- decent onboard ATi VGA, not integrated/shared-memory mess
- nice Yamaha sound chip for DOS & Windows
- front panel connector that could well be compatible with his case.

In fact I'm pretty sure about the latter - I used to have a PC at work with same PB case and an MU440EX in it.

Plus good chance that the MasterCD can work with it. As for the "66*" part number, that probably makes it a 24*-series i.e. Hercules.

Good news: probably you can get the protection working by doing tattoo /createhsfromdmi
Bad news: I hope you have the original boot floppy too, as the CD isn't bootable and unless it's the very last release doesn't contain a floppy image either...

I'm a bit rusty on those Master CDs though, it's literally been decades since I touched one. There was a topic here recently with a LOT of info on them though and possibly links to things like bootdisks. Can't find it now though...

Will definitely keep that board in mind then, just at first glance the potential of it looked somewhat lacklustre.

I never had a floppy with my master CD's.
I didn't realise that I was walking into such a potential minefield 😐

Tattoo restoration on Packard Bell HDD

This is something about the tattoo thing...

I've looked on my master CD's and there's no tattoo folder...
I can definitely remember not having a boot floppy for these though which is weird.
Guess I'm outta luck then unless I can find a floppy or tattoo files somewhere?

Richy85 wrote on 2020-08-19, 09:32:

Tattoo restoration on Packard Bell HDD […]
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Tattoo restoration on Packard Bell HDD

This is something about the tattoo thing...

I've looked on my master CD's and there's no tattoo folder...
I can definitely remember not having a boot floppy for these though which is weird.
Guess I'm outta luck then unless I can find a floppy or tattoo files somewhere?

It's probably on the tattoo floppy if it's not in a DRIVERS directory on the CD. Possibly (but given age: unlikely) there's a floppy image on the CD. What's the full P/N?

Edit:
Looks like there's some better info online these days. If your French is any good, this flow shows the options from ~1997-2001:
http://passion-pb.fr/files/Tattoo.pdf

Probably you're in the central bit, but slight chance of left-hand path - hence we need to figure out exactly which CD you have.

Edit2:
And got it! French is the key, googling on "Kit de tatouage" finds this link: http://passion-pb.fr/files/Tattoo_Recovery_BookDisk.exe

Edit3:
Maybe it's not so simple. This disk dates from mid 1999, so from the 26* format PB series. You have 24* or 22*. That could complicate matters, alhtough the passion-pb site seems to suggest this one disk should work for all of them.

Hm.
I'm pretty sure I never had a floppy for my Club 30 but perhaps I'm wrong as I can definitely remember having to replace the hard drive on that machine so would have had to have some sort of floppy if restoring onto a blank HDD... Maybe I created a tattoo floppy myself but unlikely if my HDD was dead.
Tbh, It's well over 20 years ago now so my memory could be wrong.
Bit annoying that I threw all my floppy disks out years ago... 🙁

So the # of my CD's are 6733870101.
Here's a pic.

Oh, and I can't find a drivers folder on either CD's

I don't know much about coding or software but surely this 'tattoo' thing is simply just some sort of string of code that matches up between the HDD and the CD's? If so, it has to be on the CD somewhere...
I'm wondering if theres some sort of binary file on the CD somewhere with it in - can't I then try and find a PB machine which I can pull a tattoo off on a floppy and modify to have the same string as the CD's that I can then import on a new HDD to use with these CD's?
Or would it be encrypted?

Don't understand why this has to be so hard 🤣. It's 2020 and we're letting packard bell beat us from the grave 🤣
I don't like being beaten 🙁

So I translated that PDF.

Says to use the tattoo kit which if I go to the guide for, says "You must have your original floppy disk and the TATTOO.BIN and EXTHS.BIN files." http://pbplanet.info/PassionPB/backup/tattoo_ … indows_98SE.htm (using google translate to translate to english).

so I'm not sure what to do now...

Okay, so I just found this after about 2 hours of rooting through one of the MANY .ARJ files on the CD

Not sure if this helps?

For future reference if anyone is trying to find it, it's on CD1 > Parts > ZBE012AA.XX > Files.ARJ > DRIVERS.

Edit:
When trying to extract the tattoo.exe from the ARJ file I get this error...

ARRGGH.

Edit:
Also, I've found references in some of the .dat files to serial numbers starting 24X

Well tattoo.exe is definitely on this disk:
http://passion-pb.fr/files/Tattoo_Recovery_BookDisk.exe

Still trying to ID those CDs - can't find the documentation I clearly still had 15 months ago. Given that there's a tattoo.exe on them I'm pretty sure now it's the central flow (22 or 24 format, if Win98 the latter). If it was definitely Win98, this should be the correct boot disk:
https://ryan.tliquest.net/pb-restore/361-00033-001.exe

My idea was to do the reverse of the instructions in the .pdf. There you are assumed to have a tattoo.bin file for your computer. Unless you have an original, never re-formatted HDD from the right Packard Bell system, you don't have that. What the instructions suggest is to first init the hidden sector on HDD, then copy the tattoo.bin to that hidden sector and finally to copy that to the DMI. Great, but no good without tattoo.bin. So instead, I'm assuming/hoping there might be a valid tattoo already in DMI. So instead, the process would be:

1) boot from tattoo disk
2) prep the HS with tattoo /inithspretest
3) copy DMI to HS with tattoo /createhsfromdmi
4) boot from the boot floppy and hope for the best

Failing that, you need to recreate the tattoo. Instructions for that can be found here:
http://www.passion-pb.fr/tattoo_tattoo.php

Only thing is that it assumes there's a \DRIVERS dir on your MasterCD. There isn't as it's too old. Instead run the commands from A:\ with the tattoo disk in there. It's pretty self-explanatory really, you just need to know your hardware. If you have any hardware not listed, just choose NONE at the menu item. You'll need to install drivers yourself later. The UK/IE Club 30 corresponds to the FR Club 300x, so look in the hw DB here for the relevant stuff for that model, just replace part numbers ending on *02 with *01 to get English instead of French. If your case is period-correct PB, the serial number on the back should be valid.

Starting to sound a bit more hopeful!

Although, that site lists CD part number 6733871102 for club 300x- mine is 6733860101...
The last 5 digits are different.
Could this be variation between different region/laguages as the site is French? Or is it more likely different versions of the installation?

Edit:

Also from what I understand I'll need boot floppy #6760030000
The one you provided is #36100033001

I guess really I need to start sourcing some hardware and see if it all works!

Edit again:

Would there be much of an issue in which revision of the original motherboard I get do you think?

Richy85 wrote on 2020-08-20, 08:21:

Starting to sound a bit more hopeful! […]
Show full quote

Starting to sound a bit more hopeful!

Although, that site lists CD part number 6733871102 for club 300x- mine is 6733860101...
The last 5 digits are different.
Could this be variation between different region/laguages as the site is French? Or is it more likely different versions of the installation?

*2 is French, *1 is English, as I said.

As for the 8711xx vs 8601xx, that's just different revision and may also be FR vs UK difference.

Edit:

Also from what I understand I'll need boot floppy #6760030000
The one you provided is #36100033001

Less sure here, but a newer floppy within same release should probably work. PB themselves never stocked more than a single floppy per release.

I guess really I need to start sourcing some hardware and see if it all works!

I'm almost tempted to get one of my boards working with PB stuff... but it's newer (26-series), so different challenge (FDD image and /DRIVERS dir on MCD) and I don't have MasterCD anyway. Plus vastly short of time for any retro stuff.

Edit again:

Would there be much of an issue in which revision of the original motherboard I get do you think?

In the case of FR500, not aware of any revisions anyway. In the case of MU440EX it isn't so much a matter of revision, but of BIOS. I'm not sure, but I'd expect the PB recovery process only to work with PB BIOS, not on Intel (or other OEM) BIOS.