darry wrote on 2021-05-27, 19:24:

Scythifuge wrote on 2021-05-27, 19:12:

darry wrote on 2021-05-27, 17:50:

I agree about the the aesthetics/visibility aspect. Though not a factor for me as far as network equipment goes, it definitely does matter to many people (and TBH, who doesn't like a few "blinkenlights" here or there) .

For your answer to point a), I will not dispute the realism (ah, the memories), though I question the desirability (not my kink, if you'll pardon the cable related pun) .

For point c), there is another thing to consider and that is the risk of damage to connected equipment. Using old power strips is fine as long you are not expecting any advertised surge protection features (if any) to still work after years of use . The metal-oxide varistors (MOVs) typically used in surge protected power strips do wear out as they do their job of absorbing surges and eventually silently fail (power strip still works fin but no longer offers any surge protection) .

I forgot to mention that our electrician is going to install a whole-house surge protector on our panel. The entire house is rewired, and all he has left to do is install that, and run power to an out building and install an exterior light and a motion light. I'm going to eventually install a structured media panel and run CAT cable throughout the entire house with wall jacks on every wall, and build a modern server alongside the retro server (still thinking dual P3's for that.) I looked up Cat5 and it came out 1995, so using it will be perfect for the retro project. Cat5e came out in 2001 and is thus disqualified for the retro LAN.

That is reassuring to read (regarding electricity). Also, now that I know more about what you have in mind, your desire to use retro networking gear makes a lot more sense to me . Increasing the retro scope to room decor will definitely add something special to the setup .

Best of luck in your project . Looking forward to seeing video and/or photos of the end result .

Thank you! I will probably make a thread with photos of the Ultimate Retro Rig and my Ultimate 486 Rig and the desk setup, once I get the retro LAN and all of my CF cards set up. I'll take pics of the insides, the desk area with PCs, and probably some screens, after I tweak my config.sys and autoexec.bat files to my liking. I'll update it over time as I upgrade/alter/change/add to the setup and/or decor. I'll probably throw some bonus pics in of the retro living room tv/console setup as well.

You can't go wrong with 3com for vintage gear.I still have some old hubs but they are not currently in use. One hub is a 10Mb model that also has coax so you could use both.

Mostly I use 24 or 48 port 3com managed switches for vintage gear and 1GB netgear swicthes for the more modern stuff (connected to my router so all machines can see each other).

The only Belkin products I use are all KVM's and work fine for what I need them for.

For cards I use Linksys, 3com, and Netgear plus other brands for Nubus Macs and Amigas.

Scythifuge wrote on 2021-05-27, 18:19:

I also used to have an under-the-monitor set of Roland speakers, but I lost them in my last move and I have never found the same set on ebay or anywhere else.

Roland CS-30? Just had a quick look around, and they seem both fairly rare, but also not too expensive when they do come up every now and then.

Actually, just saw some Roland CS-10 in the UK:
https://www.themusicinn.co.uk/pa-live/speaker … o-micro-monitor

snufkin wrote on 2021-05-27, 20:08:

Roland CS-30? Just had a quick look around, and they seem both fairly rare, but also not too expensive when they do come up eve […]
Show full quote

Scythifuge wrote on 2021-05-27, 18:19:

I also used to have an under-the-monitor set of Roland speakers, but I lost them in my last move and I have never found the same set on ebay or anywhere else.

Roland CS-30? Just had a quick look around, and they seem both fairly rare, but also not too expensive when they do come up every now and then.

Actually, just saw some Roland CS-10 in the UK:
https://www.themusicinn.co.uk/pa-live/speaker … o-micro-monitor

Wow, those are the speakers! Thank you! I couldn't remember the model number. I'm trying to figure out how to share my 4.1 speakers between multiple systems, with multiple sound cards in some systems. I removed the SCC-1 to put the 3com 1oMbit ISA card in the P3 since I am anticipating the AWE64 Legacy with Dreamblaster and an external Sound Canvas, though I will still have the Live! in there with it. If I got those Roland speakers, it would give my 19" monitor the necessary lift (I've been looking at old school monitor risers,) and would be perfect for AWE32/486DX2 speakers!

Scythifuge wrote on 2021-05-27, 21:47:

snufkin wrote on 2021-05-27, 20:08:

Roland CS-30? Just had a quick look around, and they seem both fairly rare, but also not too expensive when they do come up eve […]
Show full quote

Scythifuge wrote on 2021-05-27, 18:19:

I also used to have an under-the-monitor set of Roland speakers, but I lost them in my last move and I have never found the same set on ebay or anywhere else.

Roland CS-30? Just had a quick look around, and they seem both fairly rare, but also not too expensive when they do come up every now and then.

Actually, just saw some Roland CS-10 in the UK:
https://www.themusicinn.co.uk/pa-live/speaker … o-micro-monitor

Wow, those are the speakers! Thank you! I couldn't remember the model number. I'm trying to figure out how to share my 4.1 speakers between multiple systems, with multiple sound cards in some systems. I removed the SCC-1 to put the 3com 1oMbit ISA card in the P3 since I am anticipating the AWE64 Legacy with Dreamblaster and an external Sound Canvas, though I will still have the Live! in there with it. If I got those Roland speakers, it would give my 19" monitor the necessary lift (I've been looking at old school monitor risers,) and would be perfect for AWE32/486DX2 speakers!

I've thought about the speaker thing before. I think the easiest is to use multiple switch boxes. I think that the signal quality will probably be degraded a bit but I haven't actually tried it so I'm not sure.

Basically the setup would be:
Have a switchbox for each computer to switch between the soundcards.
Then have the outputs from each computer's switchbox feed into another switchbox and have the output go to the speakers.

When you want more than stereo, it will get more complicated.

I have a simple one I made back in the day to switch between two soundcards to switch between what I was using for Windows and what I was using for DOS. The ground is shared. Just a single throw dual-pole toggle switch inside a little aluminum project box.

snufkin wrote on 2021-05-27, 20:08:

Roland CS-30? Just had a quick look around, and they seem both fairly rare, but also not too expensive when they do come up eve […]
Show full quote

Scythifuge wrote on 2021-05-27, 18:19:

I also used to have an under-the-monitor set of Roland speakers, but I lost them in my last move and I have never found the same set on ebay or anywhere else.

Roland CS-30? Just had a quick look around, and they seem both fairly rare, but also not too expensive when they do come up every now and then.

Actually, just saw some Roland CS-10 in the UK:
https://www.themusicinn.co.uk/pa-live/speaker … o-micro-monitor

I read the delivery portion of that UK webstore, and I didn't see a message about international shipping. I'll shoot them an email.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-05-28, 02:34:

I've thought about the speaker thing before. I think the easiest is to use multiple switch boxes. I think that the signal qualit […]
Show full quote

Scythifuge wrote on 2021-05-27, 21:47:

snufkin wrote on 2021-05-27, 20:08:

Roland CS-30? Just had a quick look around, and they seem both fairly rare, but also not too expensive when they do come up every now and then.

Actually, just saw some Roland CS-10 in the UK:
https://www.themusicinn.co.uk/pa-live/speaker … o-micro-monitor

Wow, those are the speakers! Thank you! I couldn't remember the model number. I'm trying to figure out how to share my 4.1 speakers between multiple systems, with multiple sound cards in some systems. I removed the SCC-1 to put the 3com 1oMbit ISA card in the P3 since I am anticipating the AWE64 Legacy with Dreamblaster and an external Sound Canvas, though I will still have the Live! in there with it. If I got those Roland speakers, it would give my 19" monitor the necessary lift (I've been looking at old school monitor risers,) and would be perfect for AWE32/486DX2 speakers!

I've thought about the speaker thing before. I think the easiest is to use multiple switch boxes. I think that the signal quality will probably be degraded a bit but I haven't actually tried it so I'm not sure.

Basically the setup would be:
Have a switchbox for each computer to switch between the soundcards.
Then have the outputs from each computer's switchbox feed into another switchbox and have the output go to the speakers.

When you want more than stereo, it will get more complicated.

I have a simple one I made back in the day to switch between two soundcards to switch between what I was using for Windows and what I was using for DOS. The ground is shared. Just a single throw dual-pole toggle switch inside a little aluminum project box.

I can't remember, so I'll have to go back and look through the threads that I made, though someone had offered a solution, at least for the P3 with the Live! and the AWE card. I think Line Out Card 2-> Line In Card 1 -> Speaker Out Card 1, or something like that. I'm not sure why splitters couldn't be used, as only one device would be out putting sound at a time, though I read that Y-cables can't be used.

Actually, now that I think about it, that can't be true. A few months ago, I was using my TV as my main monitor, and a smaller TV as a secondary display, across the room. The 2nd display was on a PC desk with PC speakers, and the main screen's sound was going through a stereo receiver. I used a 3.5mm Y adapter on the speaker out on my Sound BlasterX AE-5 to connect the receiver and the PC speakers. There was never a problem with static, crackling, or any other noticeable sound degradation. Maybe the AE-5 outputs more power than the older cards do. I need a different Y cable to connect the speaker out on both cards to one set of speakers, but I'm going to try it and see what happens.

Ok, so I was doing a specific search and what you probably want is a few component video switchers. That will give you 5 or 6 available RCA plugs per switch setting which will handle up to 4.1 or 5.1 when used with audio only.

And you wouldn't necessarily need 1 switch per computer. You just need enough switch capacity to handle the outputs from all computers. Switches I am seeing are either 3 or 4 device switches so if you need more than one switch, you would need to get 3 switches so you can switch between the switches coming from the computers.

You could also make a custom switch as seen here:
http://www.questions4steveb.co.uk/html/Other_ … ch-audio-switch

You DO NOT want to send the output of two different cards through a y-cable. That is just asking for blown components. Going the other way.. a y-cable from one out to two inputs shouldn't cause any problems other than reduced volume the more devices you input to.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-05-28, 05:23:

Ok, so I was doing a specific search and what you probably want is a few component video switchers. That will give you 5 or 6 av […]
Show full quote

Ok, so I was doing a specific search and what you probably want is a few component video switchers. That will give you 5 or 6 available RCA plugs per switch setting which will handle up to 4.1 or 5.1 when used with audio only.

And you wouldn't necessarily need 1 switch per computer. You just need enough switch capacity to handle the outputs from all computers. Switches I am seeing are either 3 or 4 device switches so if you need more than one switch, you would need to get 3 switches so you can switch between the switches coming from the computers.

You could also make a custom switch as seen here:
http://www.questions4steveb.co.uk/html/Other_ … ch-audio-switch

You DO NOT want to send the output of two different cards through a y-cable. That is just asking for blown components. Going the other way.. a y-cable from one out to two inputs shouldn't cause any problems other than reduced volume the more devices you input to.

What could blow, the speakers? Even if only one output is in use at a time? The AWE card is disabled in Windows, and the Live! card isn't initialized under DOS. My AE-5 put out sound to two devices at the same time, whereas only one signal at a time would pass through a y cable in what I am proposing. I'm not disbelieving you; I just like to know how or why things work or don't work; I like to understand how components operate.

Scythifuge wrote on 2021-05-28, 16:38:

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-05-28, 05:23:

Ok, so I was doing a specific search and what you probably want is a few component video switchers. That will give you 5 or 6 av […]
Show full quote

Ok, so I was doing a specific search and what you probably want is a few component video switchers. That will give you 5 or 6 available RCA plugs per switch setting which will handle up to 4.1 or 5.1 when used with audio only.

And you wouldn't necessarily need 1 switch per computer. You just need enough switch capacity to handle the outputs from all computers. Switches I am seeing are either 3 or 4 device switches so if you need more than one switch, you would need to get 3 switches so you can switch between the switches coming from the computers.

You could also make a custom switch as seen here:
http://www.questions4steveb.co.uk/html/Other_ … ch-audio-switch

You DO NOT want to send the output of two different cards through a y-cable. That is just asking for blown components. Going the other way.. a y-cable from one out to two inputs shouldn't cause any problems other than reduced volume the more devices you input to.

What could blow, the speakers? Even if only one output is in use at a time? The AWE card is disabled in Windows, and the Live! card isn't initialized under DOS. My AE-5 put out sound to two devices at the same time, whereas only one signal at a time would pass through a y cable in what I am proposing. I'm not disbelieving you; I just like to know how or why things work or don't work; I like to understand how components operate.

If you have two outputs wired together with a y-adapter, you are going to be feeding voltage to the second output even if it isn't being used. You can end up blowing the amp or other parts on the second card.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-05-28, 16:47:

Scythifuge wrote on 2021-05-28, 16:38:

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-05-28, 05:23:

Ok, so I was doing a specific search and what you probably want is a few component video switchers. That will give you 5 or 6 av […]
Show full quote

Ok, so I was doing a specific search and what you probably want is a few component video switchers. That will give you 5 or 6 available RCA plugs per switch setting which will handle up to 4.1 or 5.1 when used with audio only.

And you wouldn't necessarily need 1 switch per computer. You just need enough switch capacity to handle the outputs from all computers. Switches I am seeing are either 3 or 4 device switches so if you need more than one switch, you would need to get 3 switches so you can switch between the switches coming from the computers.

You could also make a custom switch as seen here:
http://www.questions4steveb.co.uk/html/Other_ … ch-audio-switch

You DO NOT want to send the output of two different cards through a y-cable. That is just asking for blown components. Going the other way.. a y-cable from one out to two inputs shouldn't cause any problems other than reduced volume the more devices you input to.

What could blow, the speakers? Even if only one output is in use at a time? The AWE card is disabled in Windows, and the Live! card isn't initialized under DOS. My AE-5 put out sound to two devices at the same time, whereas only one signal at a time would pass through a y cable in what I am proposing. I'm not disbelieving you; I just like to know how or why things work or don't work; I like to understand how components operate.

If you have two outputs wired together with a y-adapter, you are going to be feeding voltage to the second output even if it isn't being used. You can end up blowing the amp or other parts on the second card.

Ah, I see. So the card that is being used is putting power through the entire cable, as there isn't something to stop the power from going into the output on the 2nd card, which is idle?

Scythifuge wrote on 2021-05-28, 22:35:

Ah, I see. So the card that is being used is putting power through the entire cable, as there isn't something to stop the power from going into the output on the 2nd card, which is idle?

Sounds right, although I'm not sure in that case that the second card is really idle. If it's outputting silence then the output stage will be trying to hold the output at analogue ground. If another source is outputting a signal on to that line, then it will be trying to drive it +ve and -ve. At which point large currents flow, up to the limit of one of the outputs, which will lead to distortion and possible damage. If one of the outputs is a power output stage to drive a speaker then the currents can be very high.

If you can put up with a drop in signal level then you can get or make a passive mixer by putting a series resistor on each output before connecting them together. That limits the current between the outputs and gives an average of the signals at the input to an amplifier.

snufkin wrote on 2021-05-29, 09:33:

Scythifuge wrote on 2021-05-28, 22:35:

Ah, I see. So the card that is being used is putting power through the entire cable, as there isn't something to stop the power from going into the output on the 2nd card, which is idle?

Sounds right, although I'm not sure in that case that the second card is really idle. If it's outputting silence then the output stage will be trying to hold the output at analogue ground. If another source is outputting a signal on to that line, then it will be trying to drive it +ve and -ve. At which point large currents flow, up to the limit of one of the outputs, which will lead to distortion and possible damage. If one of the outputs is a power output stage to drive a speaker then the currents can be very high.

If you can put up with a drop in signal level then you can get or make a passive mixer by putting a series resistor on each output before connecting them together. That limits the current between the outputs and gives an average of the signals at the input to an amplifier.

I found a bunch of options on ebay for either 3.5mm passive splitter/switches, or passive splitter switches with a combination of L/R RCA and 3.5mm jacks; devices with 2-6 inputs supported. I could buy one of those and put the Live! on one input, and the AWE32 or 64 Legacy on another input, and connect the output to a KVM+audio. I could velcro the device to a spot under the desk or under the hutch, or some other out-of-the-way location, but that would be easy to reach. I'll probably do that as I don't have soldering skills yet - though I am definitely going to learn, because I also require a multiple component jack switch for my retro console set up, and I want to learn how to create custom PC components.

Turned up an old Ether-H9 hub, metal case, about 8"x5"x1".. could probably gut it, put modern switch in it, and also a raspberry pi with 4 serial ports to 9 pin Ds on the sides, and run that as firewall/90s interweb emulator/BBS/FTP and have Lynx/Links terminal mode browser access. Maybe a little cramped, but it would be slick.