dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:18:

red-ray wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:12:

[...]

I am pointing out it's easy to get WFW 3.11 to talk to Windows 10/11 and that your statement "trying to use that to get everything from a 5150 to a Windows 10 machine talking is really, really tough " is at best misleading.

I suspect it would take me less time to get OP to setup his W10 system to be able to talk to WFW 3.11 than I have spent pointing out out your posts are misleading/incorrect.

It may be easy to get WfW3.11 to talk to Windows 10, but that doens't help you get the 5150 talking to the Windows 10 box ,so I stand by my statement. Now, how about helping OP with something that will work on his ancient hardware instead of going on about things that won't?

As I specified before you should not be talking about the 5150 , but rather the software running on the 5150, what software are you expecting to run of the 5150? I feel you should post a link to it's specification.

Once we know what software the 5150 is running it's then sensible to talk about what networking options are possible.

I suspect Microsoft Network Client 3.0 for DOS will talk to Windows 10 provided TCP/IP is selected.

If you wanna get weird, you can use ICS on a W98 thru' W7 box to share it's LAN or Wifi connection through PLIP with a crynwr PLIP packet driver on DOS. All I remember are the broad strokes though, one of the many things I feel my way through when I do it hands on, but can never describe in detail. Old neural pathways need the bias voltage from the frontal lobes getting engaged real time or some crap.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:24:

[...]

Suuggesting WfW 3.11 will work on a 286 shows your lack of knowledge wrt networking.

Rather lack of knowledge of difference in specs between W3.1 (which will) and WfW which won't - and that I already corrected.

For someone with such a 'lack of knowledge wrt networking' I just gave a pretty detailed step-for-step guide of what you need with the exact four cards OP has to get mTCP running, complete with links to the drivers. Sure your're addressing the right person in this way?

dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 18:16:

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:24:

[...]

Suuggesting WfW 3.11 will work on a 286 shows your lack of knowledge wrt networking.

Rather lack of knowledge of difference in specs between W3.1 (which will) and WfW which won't - and that I already corrected.

For someone with such a 'lack of knowledge wrt networking' I just gave a pretty detailed step-for-step guide of what you need with the exact four cards OP has to get mTCP running, complete with links to the drivers. Sure your're addressing the right person in this way?

No. Just you. You were the the one who post incorrect system requirement for WfW3.11.

red-ray wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:30:

dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:18:

red-ray wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:12:

[...]

I am pointing out it's easy to get WFW 3.11 to talk to Windows 10/11 and that your statement "trying to use that to get everything from a 5150 to a Windows 10 machine talking is really, really tough " is at best misleading.

I suspect it would take me less time to get OP to setup his W10 system to be able to talk to WFW 3.11 than I have spent pointing out out your posts are misleading/incorrect.

It may be easy to get WfW3.11 to talk to Windows 10, but that doens't help you get the 5150 talking to the Windows 10 box ,so I stand by my statement. Now, how about helping OP with something that will work on his ancient hardware instead of going on about things that won't?

As I specified before you should not be talking about the 5150 , but rather the software running on the 5150, what software are you expecting to run of the 5150? I feel you should post a link to it's specification.

The 5150 is the original IBM PC from 1981:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_Computer
- 8088 CPU@4.77MHz
- 16kB (really...) to 640kB RAM originally installed
- cassette tape or 5.25" SS or DS floppy drives
- 5 8b "ISA" slots
- MDA or CGA graphics (originally)
- 100% PC compatible (because it *is* the PC everything else is compatible with)

Of course, 40 years later most systems have been upgraded, so 16kB RAM and cassette tape only is highly unlikely, most have at least 512kB RAM and a floppy drive, many have been upgraded to Hercules or EGA graphics. But unless there's a really fancy accelerator card in there, that 4.77MHz 8088 is going to be the same.

Once we know what software the 5150 is running it's then sensible to talk about what networking options are possible

I suspect Microsoft Network Client 3.0 for DOS will talk to Windows 10 provided TCP/IP is selected.

Pretty safe to assume DOS. Anyone running anything else on it is likely to be a lot more clued-up, if only to the fact they're running something unusual (CP/M, SCO Xenix, that kind of thing). Question is which version. Anything from 3.3 up will run that MS Network Client 3.0, but it could be as old as MS-DOS 1.0.

Reading the readme for the client, 429kB of memory is needed to run the installer. That generally shouldn't be a problem, but on a 5150 it does need checking.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-10-27, 18:32:

dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 18:16:

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:24:

[...]

Suuggesting WfW 3.11 will work on a 286 shows your lack of knowledge wrt networking.

Rather lack of knowledge of difference in specs between W3.1 (which will) and WfW which won't - and that I already corrected.

For someone with such a 'lack of knowledge wrt networking' I just gave a pretty detailed step-for-step guide of what you need with the exact four cards OP has to get mTCP running, complete with links to the drivers. Sure your're addressing the right person in this way?

No. Just you. You were the the one who post incorrect system requirement for WfW3.11.

Yep, I clearly failed at the most important of all measures of networking knowledge.

dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 18:43:

The 5150 is the original IBM PC from 1981: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_Computer - 8088 CPU@4.77MHz - 16kB (really […]
Show full quote

red-ray wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:30:

dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:18:

It may be easy to get WfW3.11 to talk to Windows 10, but that doens't help you get the 5150 talking to the Windows 10 box ,so I stand by my statement. Now, how about helping OP with something that will work on his ancient hardware instead of going on about things that won't?

As I specified before you should not be talking about the 5150 , but rather the software running on the 5150, what software are you expecting to run of the 5150? I feel you should post a link to it's specification.

The 5150 is the original IBM PC from 1981:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_Computer
- 8088 CPU@4.77MHz
- 16kB (really...) to 640kB RAM originally installed
- cassette tape or 5.25" SS or DS floppy drives
- 5 8b "ISA" slots
- MDA or CGA graphics (originally)
- 100% PC compatible (because it *is* the PC everything else is compatible with)

Of course, 40 years later most systems have been upgraded, so 16kB RAM and cassette tape only is highly unlikely, most have at least 512kB RAM and a floppy drive, many have been upgraded to Hercules or EGA graphics. But unless there's a really fancy accelerator card in there, that 4.77MHz 8088 is going to be the same.

Once we know what software the 5150 is running it's then sensible to talk about what networking options are possible

I suspect Microsoft Network Client 3.0 for DOS will talk to Windows 10 provided TCP/IP is selected.

Pretty safe to assume DOS. Anyone running anything else on it is likely to be a lot more clued-up, if only to the fact they're running something unusual (CP/M, SCO Xenix, that kind of thing). Question is which version. Anything from 3.3 up will run that MS Network Client 3.0, but it could be as old as MS-DOS 1.0.

Reading the readme for the client, 429kB of memory is needed to run the installer. That generally shouldn't be a problem, but on a 5150 it does need checking.

Why have you posted the specification of the hardware when I specified the specification of the software?

Given the 5150 will run Microsoft Network Client 3.0 for DOS then it not being able run run WFW 3.11 is not an issue and even more of what you have posted in misleading and ill informed.

dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 18:43:

The 5150 is the original IBM PC from 1981: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_Computer - 8088 CPU@4.77MHz - 16kB (really […]
Show full quote

red-ray wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:30:

dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:18:

It may be easy to get WfW3.11 to talk to Windows 10, but that doens't help you get the 5150 talking to the Windows 10 box ,so I stand by my statement. Now, how about helping OP with something that will work on his ancient hardware instead of going on about things that won't?

As I specified before you should not be talking about the 5150 , but rather the software running on the 5150, what software are you expecting to run of the 5150? I feel you should post a link to it's specification.

The 5150 is the original IBM PC from 1981:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_Computer
- 8088 CPU@4.77MHz
- 16kB (really...) to 640kB RAM originally installed
- cassette tape or 5.25" SS or DS floppy drives
- 5 8b "ISA" slots
- MDA or CGA graphics (originally)
- 100% PC compatible (because it *is* the PC everything else is compatible with)

Of course, 40 years later most systems have been upgraded, so 16kB RAM and cassette tape only is highly unlikely, most have at least 512kB RAM and a floppy drive, many have been upgraded to Hercules or EGA graphics. But unless there's a really fancy accelerator card in there, that 4.77MHz 8088 is going to be the same.

Once we know what software the 5150 is running it's then sensible to talk about what networking options are possible

I suspect Microsoft Network Client 3.0 for DOS will talk to Windows 10 provided TCP/IP is selected.

Pretty safe to assume DOS. Anyone running anything else on it is likely to be a lot more clued-up, if only to the fact they're running something unusual (CP/M, SCO Xenix, that kind of thing). Question is which version. Anything from 3.3 up will run that MS Network Client 3.0, but it could be as old as MS-DOS 1.0.

Reading the readme for the client, 429kB of memory is needed to run the installer. That generally shouldn't be a problem, but on a 5150 it does need checking.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-10-27, 18:32:

dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 18:16:

Rather lack of knowledge of difference in specs between W3.1 (which will) and WfW which won't - and that I already corrected.

For someone with such a 'lack of knowledge wrt networking' I just gave a pretty detailed step-for-step guide of what you need with the exact four cards OP has to get mTCP running, complete with links to the drivers. Sure your're addressing the right person in this way?

No. Just you. You were the the one who post incorrect system requirement for WfW3.11.

Yep, I clearly failed at the most important of all measures of networking knowledge.

Yes in regards the WfW3.11. You didn't even get past the preface.......

damn yall getting fired up about SMB, gang FTP rising above the infighting

please don't get mad! you have all been very kind, now I have a problem with the IBM Pentium75 and you have to be able to correct the wrong date and the battery not being seen in the bios, I have to find the suppord diskette or something like that ...

another question .. all the files of my retrocomputers are stored on a Proliant microserver with Freenas, is there the possibility of showing this server to the computers we have talked about so far? I don't know if with win3.11 you can see that version of smb or you need to enable the ftp service (will there be?) On freenas ...

AlessandroB wrote on 2021-10-27, 20:09:

another question .. all the files of my retrocomputers are stored on a Proliant microserver with Freenas, is there the possibility of showing this server to the computers we have talked about so far? I don't know if with win3.11 you can see that version of smb or you need to enable the ftp service (will there be?) On freenas ...

Yes and no.
SMB
You would need to enable SMB1 on Freenas.
https://www.ixsystems.com/documentation/freen … rvices.html#smb

Win3.11 and dos you'll need to map a network drive to access files accross the network as these OS's dont have anywhere to simply type \\server
What I tend to do is use a Win95 or later PC as the middle man , that way you can open up 1 window to \\Win3PC and a 2nd to \\server and copy the files from 1 to the other.

FTP
you woud need to enable ftp
https://thesolving.com/server-room/how-to-con … ver-on-freenas/

There are many many FTP cients for every version of windows and all look jut about the same, somewhat similar to File Manager where the window on the left is the local PC and window on the right is the server.

Never looked into it but I'm betting dos gui clients also exist, if they work on a 5150 would also be a consideration.

What I would recomend is ignore the 5150 for now.
See how you go with getting the P75 on the network. SMB and/or ftp doesnt matter both will have their chalanges but will be more forgiving then the archaic 5150.
Once you have Win3x sucsesfully taking on the network you'll have done most the underlying groundwork for the 5150.
I'm still doubtful SMB will work on the 5150 but no halm in trying! worst case if you fall in love with using SMB on the later PC's you can always just use FTP for this one box. FTP and SMB can live quite happily side by side.

Dos does have 1 more option almost forgotton to time, LAN Manager or LanMan. I've never played with this though so no idea how well it works but someone else here might know more?

chinny22 wrote on 2021-10-27, 21:16:

Win3.11 and dos you'll need to map a network drive to access files accross the network as these OS's dont have anywhere to simply type \\server
What I tend to do is use a Win95 or later PC as the middle man , that way you can open up 1 window to \\Win3PC and a 2nd to \\server and copy the files from 1 to the other.

It's much simpler to push/pull files from/to the W10 + W11 systems, look at my Re: network: IBM 5150, IBM P75 and windows10 for data exchange? post which shows W11 directly listing the files on the WFW 3.11 system.

red-ray wrote on 2021-10-27, 21:43:

chinny22 wrote on 2021-10-27, 21:16:

Win3.11 and dos you'll need to map a network drive to access files accross the network as these OS's dont have anywhere to simply type \\server
What I tend to do is use a Win95 or later PC as the middle man , that way you can open up 1 window to \\Win3PC and a 2nd to \\server and copy the files from 1 to the other.

It's much simpler to push/pull files from/to the W10 + W11 systems, look at my Re: network: IBM 5150, IBM P75 and windows10 for data exchange? post which shows W11 directly listing the files on the WFW 3.11 system.

Yeh your basicly showing the same thing I'm talking about which is why I said Win95 or later
These versions of windows have the ability to simply enter the UNC path to access a share, the version of windows doenst really matter.

chinny22 wrote on 2021-10-27, 22:10:

red-ray wrote on 2021-10-27, 21:43:

chinny22 wrote on 2021-10-27, 21:16:

Win3.11 and dos you'll need to map a network drive to access files accross the network as these OS's dont have anywhere to simply type \\server
What I tend to do is use a Win95 or later PC as the middle man , that way you can open up 1 window to \\Win3PC and a 2nd to \\server and copy the files from 1 to the other.

It's much simpler to push/pull files from/to the W10 + W11 systems, look at my Re: network: IBM 5150, IBM P75 and windows10 for data exchange? post which shows W11 directly listing the files on the WFW 3.11 system.

Yeh your basicly showing the same thing I'm talking about which is why I said Win95 or later
These versions of windows have the ability to simply enter the UNC path to access a share, the version of windows doenst really matter.

No, it's more than just the UNC paths, W10 + W11 can directly access the WFW 3.11 system and easily transfer files, but the WFW 3.11 system can't access the W11 + W10 systems as connection requests get rejected for security reasons which is why I assume you specified "Win95 or later PC as the middle man".

Update: I just tried WFW 3.11 to W7 and that also does not work for security reasons and WFW 3.11 to 2003 Sever which does so expect any middle man also needs to be <= 2003 Server/XP-64

ok ok enough, I have enough to test, if I have other doubts I expose them here. Now I have something else, unfortunately the Pentium75 has started not saving the date and time anymore, I have posted a thread on purpose, if you want to read it and help me with that I would be grateful.

AlessandroB wrote on 2021-10-28, 12:03:

ok ok enough, I have enough to test

OK, I advise you to first get the P75 working with WFW 3.11 as it should l be easy to get this to work. On the W10 side you need to do as I specified in Re: network: IBM 5150, IBM P75 and windows10 for data exchange?

Once this is playing nicely then move onto the 5150 as by doing it in this order we know the W10 system is setup OK and only need to focus on Microsoft Network Client 3.0 for DOS

...or just use mTCP and FTP on all systems. Literally the only difference between the two needs to be the host name and packet driver for the network interface. Everything else can be copy/pasted between 5150 and P75 (and Dosbox on the new system too, if desired, although just running FileZilla is probably much easier).

dionb wrote on 2021-10-28, 13:13:

...or just use mTCP and FTP on all systems. Literally the only difference between the two needs to be the host name and packet driver for the network interface. Everything else can be copy/pasted between 5150 and P75 (and Dosbox on the new system too, if desired, although just running FileZilla is probably much easier).

Yip. The MSDos network client also uses quite a bit more ram with the tcp/ip protocol running.

null

Anders- wrote on 2021-10-28, 18:48:

Kermit doesn't use much ram, and it fits the time period 😀

I love watching the Muppets it is much like reading some Vogons.org members postings. 😉

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-10-28, 18:51:

Anders- wrote on 2021-10-28, 18:48:

Kermit doesn't use much ram, and it fits the time period 😀

I love watching the Muppets it is much like reading some Vogons.org members postings. 😉

Why not full circle: "Jim Henson's Creature Shop" did most creature effects for the film "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" (2005) - that includes the Vogons. 😉
... but we're going off topic 😀