AlessandroB - you might find some background reading helpful. Start here: https://www.brutman.com/Dos_Networking/dos_networking.html

(Caution - it is long. But understanding the theory will make the actual setup much easier.)

really interesting, I gave it a quick read and more or less some idea of what we are talking about. I first try to connect the two most modern computers 486 and P75 then later I find a NIC for the 5150 and I try it too. To make things easier for me initially and quickly see the hardware work, can I use win3.11 for data exchange? does it already have all the necessary protocols or do I have to use windows 95? tnks

Not Win3.11 but Windows for Workgroups 3.11 will. You need to add the tcp/ip network protocols though.

AlessandroB wrote on 2021-10-24, 21:20:

Can you tell me if it is possible to connect these 3 machines? can I install an isa card in the two IBM like the Etherlink III and then connect all 3 together to exchange data?

Which versions of Windows are the IBM systems running?

This Windows 10 x64 Enterprise system happily transfers files to W98 + NT4 and later once I changed HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Lsa LmCompatibilityLevel from 3 to 1 and rebooted the W10 system. I am also able to use MSVC 6 TCP/IP remote debugging to all of the systems.

I the past I recall Windows 7 talking to W95, but I don't have a W95 system at the moment and I am unsure about WFW 3.11, but suspect it will work provided TCP/IP is installed/used.

Update: I remembered I had a WFW 3.11 installation on my Athlon system so I tried it and can confirm W10 happily talks to WFW 3.11 😀

Note: I suspect SMB 1.0/CIFS also needs to be installed and enabled on the W10 system.

AlessandroB wrote on 2021-10-26, 07:25:

To make things easier for me initially and quickly see the hardware work, can I use win3.11 for data exchange? does it already have all the necessary protocols or do I have to use windows 95? tnks

I suggest the opposite, to use plain dos where the only thing you need to worry about initially is a working packet driver.
After that it's only a matter of mTCP and FTP configuration, making troubleshooting and getting help easier.
Of course it's all down to what you feel more comfortable with, but plain dos and mctp reduces the number of things that can go wrong.

Don't think WFW 3.11 run on a 5150? Even WFW 3.1 has 386 listed as system requirements.
Maybe Microsoft Network Client 3.0 for dos would work if you wanted to go down the MS track.

But I'd have to agree FTP is the easier way to go on such an early PC and that's coming from someone that does use windows networking for all his rigs (I only go as far back as 486)

I fully recommend going to the trouble though!

No w3.11 not work on 5150

konc wrote on 2021-10-26, 10:00:

I suggest the opposite, to use plain dos where the only thing you need to worry about initially is a working packet driver. Afte […]
Show full quote

AlessandroB wrote on 2021-10-26, 07:25:

To make things easier for me initially and quickly see the hardware work, can I use win3.11 for data exchange? does it already have all the necessary protocols or do I have to use windows 95? tnks

I suggest the opposite, to use plain dos where the only thing you need to worry about initially is a working packet driver.
After that it's only a matter of mTCP and FTP configuration, making troubleshooting and getting help easier.
Of course it's all down to what you feel more comfortable with, but plain dos and mctp reduces the number of things that can go wrong.

Agreed. SMB is bloated at the best of times, but trying to use that to get everything from a 5150 to a Windows 10 machine talking is really, really tough - there are multiple versions of SMB and CIFS involved, you will need some intermediate stuff between the security-aware new stuff and the really old stuff not even physically capable of running decent encryption let alone lack of software support.

Unless you are a Windows networking fetishist, keep it simple - just packet driver TCP and FTP. Trying to get all these things talking together with Windows networking *is* the sort of challenge that can keep you busy for months and even then fail 😮

but I don't have months of rehearsals to do. I need a method to connect them online as simple as possible (which does not mean that it has to be elementary, but that I don't have to choose the most difficult method if there is a simpler one).

these are the network cards I own (but I can buy one if it serves to simplify me and anyway I like having great hardware (3COM).

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-R5dH … sxn?usp=sharing

I was thinking of putting the 3com PCI in the pentium 75 (which in the meantime was raised to 200) and the 3com isa in the 486, I still have to decide what to install in the 5150 .... advice?

tnks

AlessandroB wrote on 2021-10-26, 20:16:

but I don't have months of rehearsals to do. I need a method to connect them online as simple as possible (which does not mean t […]
Show full quote

but I don't have months of rehearsals to do. I need a method to connect them online as simple as possible (which does not mean that it has to be elementary, but that I don't have to choose the most difficult method if there is a simpler one).

these are the network cards I own (but I can buy one if it serves to simplify me and anyway I like having great hardware (3COM).

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-R5dH … sxn?usp=sharing

I was thinking of putting the 3com PCI in the pentium 75 (which in the meantime was raised to 200) and the 3com isa in the 486, I still have to decide what to install in the 5150 .... advice?

tnks

The mTCP suite and FTP that was suggested earlier and Mike was gracious to provide you a link on how to use it........

AlessandroB wrote on 2021-10-26, 20:16:

but I don't have months of rehearsals to do. I need a method to connect them online as simple as possible (which does not mean that it has to be elementary, but that I don't have to choose the most difficult method if there is a simpler one).

Right, so just use packet driver and mTCP and don't even try Windows File & Printer Sharing. More specifically, if in doubt, run the server on the old machine and the client on the new one. What passed for "user-friendly" on PC/XT class machines may be a bit too challenging for you. Everything you need for FTP server is in the mTCP download. On the new machine, if in doubt, use FileZilla - an open-source mature client that's as easy to use for people used to Windows as anything out there.

More specifically, the *only* downloads you need:
- DOS (packet) driver package for the NIC; in the case of the 3C509B you need just two files: 3C5X9CFG.EXE to configure the card resources and3C5X9PD.COM, the packet driver.
- mbrutman's mTCP suite, including DHCP client and FTP server. All the documentation needed to get it running is here - and I believe you already saw that document.
- Filezilla on the new machine.

these are the network cards I own (but I can buy one if it serves to simplify me and anyway I like having great hardware (3COM). […]
Show full quote

these are the network cards I own (but I can buy one if it serves to simplify me and anyway I like having great hardware (3COM).

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-R5dH … sxn?usp=sharing

I was thinking of putting the 3com PCI in the pentium 75 (which in the meantime was raised to 200) and the 3com isa in the 486, I still have to decide what to install in the 5150 .... advice?

tnks

It's already been confirmed that the 3C509B will work in 5150. Given that that's the most challenging machine, go for the safest option. Only caveat: as it has an 8b bus, its IRQs only go up to 7. In 16b systems (286 and newer), network cards are generally configured on IRQ 10 or 11, so there's a good chance that this NIC is on one of those. That won't work in the 5150. Possibly 3C5X9CFG (the 3Com config tool for the card) can detect it and set a low IRQ regardeless, but worst-case you first need to stick it in the 486, there configure it for a free low IRQ on the 5150 and then move it over to the 5150. As for which IRQ to choose, that depends on your system and what's in it. I'd generally go for IRQ3 (used by default for COM2), and then disable the second serial port, if present, but IRQ 7 or 2 might also be an option (although if you have a sound card they might conflict).

As for the rest...

The 3C905B-TXM is a nice 10/100 NIC with good DOS support. This is probably the driver package you need.

The generic RTL8139D-based card is well-supported but there's a catch: late revision RTL8139 cards like this need PCI 2.2 buses with 3.3V to work. That means no P75, this will only work with late P3 (not i440BX chipset) or Athlon/P4 onward. If you have such a system running DOS, drivers are here

Finally the noname Winbond WB9C904AXF... that could be the most challenging. There's precious little documentation about the chip or indeed the drivers. Only thing I can find is an entry on scam site network-drivers.com (do NOT click in any download links on that site!), with a file list of the archive w89c904.zip, including the config tool DIAG.EXE packet driver ETHPK.COM. Now, I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm assuming that this chip basically is NE2000 compatible, and that it needs a config utility as well as the packet driver. There are quite a few like that, and this one supports multiple similar chipsets, has a conf tool named DIAG.EXE and has a packet driver names ETHPK.COM. If you're feeling confident after getting the 3C509B running, you could try this. But this really is at least one level more complex than the rest as there's no hard documentation and just guesswork.

Tbh, I'd recommmend getting a second 3C509B for the 486. Or if it's a PCI 486, use the 3C905B-TXM. It won't run anywhere near full speed, but those old 3Com cards were highly compatible (other than the 3C501, read up on its Linux driver documentation if you want a good laugh).

dionb wrote on 2021-10-26, 19:07:

SMB is bloated at the best of times, but trying to use that to get everything from a 5150 to a Windows 10 machine talking is really, really tough - there are multiple versions of SMB and CIFS involved, you will need some intermediate stuff between the security-aware new stuff and the really old stuff not even physically capable of running decent encryption let alone lack of software support.

Given my Re: network: IBM 5150, IBM P75 and windows10 for data exchange? post I am at a loss as to how you can even post this.

Firstly talking about hardware (5150) is inappropriate, you need to talk about the software running on the systems.

There may be issues for systems that can't run WFW 3.11, but for WFW 3.11 and later it's quite easy and I have it all working here. I have not used pre WFW 3.11 networking recently so I can't know for sure, but given Windows 11 to WFW 3.11 is easy I can't imagine it's that hard.

As for SMB being bloated then compared to the rest of MS Windows it's a drop in the ocean so irrelevant.

red-ray wrote on 2021-10-27, 11:46:

Given my Re: network: IBM 5150, IBM P75 and windows10 for data exchange? post I am at a loss as to how you can even post this. […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on 2021-10-26, 19:07:

SMB is bloated at the best of times, but trying to use that to get everything from a 5150 to a Windows 10 machine talking is really, really tough - there are multiple versions of SMB and CIFS involved, you will need some intermediate stuff between the security-aware new stuff and the really old stuff not even physically capable of running decent encryption let alone lack of software support.

Given my Re: network: IBM 5150, IBM P75 and windows10 for data exchange? post I am at a loss as to how you can even post this.

Firstly talking about hardware (5150) is inappropriate, you need to talk about the software running on the systems.

There may be issues for systems that can't run WFW 3.11, but for WFW 3.11 and later it's quite easy and I have it all working here. I have not used pre WFW 3.11 networking recently so I can't know for sure, but given Windows 11 to WFW 3.11 is easy I can't imagine it's that hard.

Er, how were you planning to run WfW3.11 - which requires a 286 and 1MB of RAM - on a 5150 with its 8088 CPU? Or to get any software working without drivers?

Edit: Windows 3.1 requires 286 and 1MB, Windows for Workgroups dropped the 286 too and WfW3.11 requires a 386 and at least 3MB of RAM. With systems as old as a 5150 from 1981, hardware matters.

dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 14:14:

red-ray wrote on 2021-10-27, 11:46:

Given my Re: network: IBM 5150, IBM P75 and windows10 for data exchange? post I am at a loss as to how you can even post this. […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on 2021-10-26, 19:07:

SMB is bloated at the best of times, but trying to use that to get everything from a 5150 to a Windows 10 machine talking is really, really tough - there are multiple versions of SMB and CIFS involved, you will need some intermediate stuff between the security-aware new stuff and the really old stuff not even physically capable of running decent encryption let alone lack of software support.

Given my Re: network: IBM 5150, IBM P75 and windows10 for data exchange? post I am at a loss as to how you can even post this.

Firstly talking about hardware (5150) is inappropriate, you need to talk about the software running on the systems.

There may be issues for systems that can't run WFW 3.11, but for WFW 3.11 and later it's quite easy and I have it all working here. I have not used pre WFW 3.11 networking recently so I can't know for sure, but given Windows 11 to WFW 3.11 is easy I can't imagine it's that hard.

Er, how were you planning to run WfW3.11 - which requires a 286 and 1MB of RAM - on a 5150 with its 8088 CPU? Or to get any software working without drivers?

Edit: Windows 3.1 requires 286 and 1MB, Windows for Workgroups dropped the 286 too and WfW3.11 requires a 386 and at least 3MB of RAM. With systems as old as a 5150 from 1981, hardware matters.

WfW 3.11 will not run on a 286 system!

It's requirements are 386SX and above.

dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 14:14:

red-ray wrote on 2021-10-27, 11:46:

Given my Re: network: IBM 5150, IBM P75 and windows10 for data exchange? post I am at a loss as to how you can even post this. […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on 2021-10-26, 19:07:

SMB is bloated at the best of times, but trying to use that to get everything from a 5150 to a Windows 10 machine talking is really, really tough - there are multiple versions of SMB and CIFS involved, you will need some intermediate stuff between the security-aware new stuff and the really old stuff not even physically capable of running decent encryption let alone lack of software support.

Given my Re: network: IBM 5150, IBM P75 and windows10 for data exchange? post I am at a loss as to how you can even post this.

Firstly talking about hardware (5150) is inappropriate, you need to talk about the software running on the systems.

There may be issues for systems that can't run WFW 3.11, but for WFW 3.11 and later it's quite easy and I have it all working here. I have not used pre WFW 3.11 networking recently so I can't know for sure, but given Windows 11 to WFW 3.11 is easy I can't imagine it's that hard.

Er, how were you planning to run WfW3.11 - which requires a 286 and 1MB of RAM - on a 5150 with its 8088 CPU? Or to get any software working without drivers?

Edit: Windows 3.1 requires 286 and 1MB, Windows for Workgroups dropped the 286 too and WfW3.11 requires a 386 and at least 3MB of RAM. With systems as old as a 5150 from 1981, hardware matters.

What on earth makes you think I am expecting WFW 3.11 to run on an 8086? I did not specify this and in general only talked about software.

With my comment "I have not used pre WFW 3.11 networking recently" I assume there is/was software before WFW 3.11 even existed that will run on a 8086 and I suspect it can't be that hard to get it to talk to Windows 10 + 11.

Even if things are not possible with the 5150 then they are with the P75.

red-ray wrote on 2021-10-27, 14:51:

What on earth makes you think I am expecting WFW 3.11 to run on an 8086? I did not specify this and in general only talked abou […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 14:14:

red-ray wrote on 2021-10-27, 11:46:

Given my Re: network: IBM 5150, IBM P75 and windows10 for data exchange? post I am at a loss as to how you can even post this.

Firstly talking about hardware (5150) is inappropriate, you need to talk about the software running on the systems.

There may be issues for systems that can't run WFW 3.11, but for WFW 3.11 and later it's quite easy and I have it all working here. I have not used pre WFW 3.11 networking recently so I can't know for sure, but given Windows 11 to WFW 3.11 is easy I can't imagine it's that hard.

Er, how were you planning to run WfW3.11 - which requires a 286 and 1MB of RAM - on a 5150 with its 8088 CPU? Or to get any software working without drivers?

Edit: Windows 3.1 requires 286 and 1MB, Windows for Workgroups dropped the 286 too and WfW3.11 requires a 386 and at least 3MB of RAM. With systems as old as a 5150 from 1981, hardware matters.

What on earth makes you think I am expecting WFW 3.11 to run on an 8086? I did not specify this and in general only talked about software.

With my comment "I have not used pre WFW 3.11 networking recently" I assume there is/was software other than WFW 3.11 that will run on a 8086 and I suspect it can't be that hard to get it to talk to Windows 10 + 11.

Even if things are not possible with the 5150 then they are with the P75.

So you're proposing OP - who is clearly not experienced with networking of any variety - use multiple different solutions for networking for different computers?

Keep it simple, if there's a well-supported solution that will run on everything, that makes far more sense for a beginner than doing different things per hardware platform.

My mid 90s copy of Networking for Dummies says you want Banyan Vines, Netware or LANtastic 🤣

dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:01:

red-ray wrote on 2021-10-27, 14:51:

What on earth makes you think I am expecting WFW 3.11 to run on an 8086? I did not specify this and in general only talked abou […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 14:14:

Er, how were you planning to run WfW3.11 - which requires a 286 and 1MB of RAM - on a 5150 with its 8088 CPU? Or to get any software working without drivers?

Edit: Windows 3.1 requires 286 and 1MB, Windows for Workgroups dropped the 286 too and WfW3.11 requires a 386 and at least 3MB of RAM. With systems as old as a 5150 from 1981, hardware matters.

What on earth makes you think I am expecting WFW 3.11 to run on an 8086? I did not specify this and in general only talked about software.

With my comment "I have not used pre WFW 3.11 networking recently" I assume there is/was software other than WFW 3.11 that will run on a 8086 and I suspect it can't be that hard to get it to talk to Windows 10 + 11.

Even if things are not possible with the 5150 then they are with the P75.

So you're proposing OP - who is clearly not experienced with networking of any variety - use multiple different solutions for networking for different computers?

Keep it simple, if there's a well-supported solution that will run on everything, that makes far more sense for a beginner than doing different things per hardware platform.

I am pointing out it's easy to get WFW 3.11 to talk to Windows 10/11 and that your statement "trying to use that to get everything from a 5150 to a Windows 10 machine talking is really, really tough " is at best misleading.

I suspect it would take me less time to get OP to setup his W10 system to be able to talk to WFW 3.11 than I and others have spent pointing out out your posts are misleading and incorrect.

red-ray wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:12:

[...]

I am pointing out it's easy to get WFW 3.11 to talk to Windows 10/11 and that your statement "trying to use that to get everything from a 5150 to a Windows 10 machine talking is really, really tough " is at best misleading.

I suspect it would take me less time to get OP to setup his W10 system to be able to talk to WFW 3.11 than I have spent pointing out out your posts are misleading/incorrect.

It may be easy to get WfW3.11 to talk to Windows 10, but that doesn't help you get the 5150 talking to the Windows 10 box ,so I stand by my statement. Now, how about helping OP with something that will work on his ancient hardware instead of going on about things that won't?

dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 15:01:

red-ray wrote on 2021-10-27, 14:51:

What on earth makes you think I am expecting WFW 3.11 to run on an 8086? I did not specify this and in general only talked abou […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on 2021-10-27, 14:14:

Er, how were you planning to run WfW3.11 - which requires a 286 and 1MB of RAM - on a 5150 with its 8088 CPU? Or to get any software working without drivers?

Edit: Windows 3.1 requires 286 and 1MB, Windows for Workgroups dropped the 286 too and WfW3.11 requires a 386 and at least 3MB of RAM. With systems as old as a 5150 from 1981, hardware matters.

What on earth makes you think I am expecting WFW 3.11 to run on an 8086? I did not specify this and in general only talked about software.

With my comment "I have not used pre WFW 3.11 networking recently" I assume there is/was software other than WFW 3.11 that will run on a 8086 and I suspect it can't be that hard to get it to talk to Windows 10 + 11.

Even if things are not possible with the 5150 then they are with the P75.

So you're proposing OP - who is clearly not experienced with networking of any variety - use multiple different solutions for networking for different computers?

Keep it simple, if there's a well-supported solution that will run on everything, that makes far more sense for a beginner than doing different things per hardware platform.

The OP needs to use different solutions because of the OS on that hardware. FTP works on everythink. His been told how to do this more than once.

We all started from scatch at some point. The OP seems to want a solution that takes 5mins to set up on all systems. It aint going to happen.

Suuggesting WfW 3.11 will work on a 286 shows your lack of knowledge wrt networking.