Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-10-27, 13:22:

vinxi2 wrote on 2021-10-27, 12:54:

From what I'm able to understand with my little knowledge, in this thread the GF4 Ti seems to be the most compatible one with Windows 98 games, like chinny22 said

Yeah, that's pretty much the sweet spot. GeForce4 Ti cards are powerful enough to max out almost every Win9x game while retaining good compatibility with older titles and being able to use known good driver versions.

ATi cards are generally not recommended for Win9x gaming since they lack the features mentioned in my previous post.

GF4 cannot max out Win98 games if by maxing out you mean high AA and resolution. For that the best is a FX5900U, and even with that I have to used balanced (4x) AA at 1280x1024 (and 8X AF).

vinxi2 wrote on 2021-10-27, 17:54:

The FX 5950 Ultra is 200€+ on eBay and prone to failure, so no.

I often hear this, but I have found the FX series to be extremely rock solid, unlike it's contemporary 9800 Pro which die if you breath on them. The FX is expensive, but the Quadro variants and usually less than half the price and can be affordable.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-10-27, 18:05:

Note that Win98 doesn't work correctly on hard disks larger than 127 GB. I'm not sure if there are any third-party patches which fix this
[..]
Personally, I would go for two SSDs in your case

There are many patches out there for Windows 98 and were mentioned in this thread as well, but your SSD solution is very simple. The two OSes would basically ignore each other, there would be no need for boot loaders and cloning 120/250 GB should be easier.

I would partition the Windows 98 SSD in: 2 GB primary (chinny22 advice for Sandisk), rest for data.

The Silverstone SG11 case has a lot of storage options, I could add after a 500GB HDD just for storing ISOs, games and whatever. The only problem is that the motherboard has only two SATA ports, don't know if there is like a "SATA multiplier" or if I should use a SATA to IDE adapter.

leonardo wrote on 2021-10-27, 18:13:

Why don't you name some games/applications you're looking to run? Just looking at the system requirements/recommendations for some titles might be more helpful than scattershot commentary from everyone imagining their games on your stuff. 😀

I totally understand your right point but basically what I want to achieve here is the most powerful machine I could ever imagine for Windows 98 SE with full compatibility, the machine that I could only dream in my wettest dreams. (and I really had those at the time 😁)

So I'd like to play basically with everything that I throw at it that came on Windows 98, I want to turn those demos in full games.
Just 5 minutes ago I remembered Soldier of Fortune (the one that blew my mind because enemies would behave based on where you shot them). If it can reach it, or maybe Half Life 2 and Tomb Raider AOF on XP, I would be very happy. It seems that I "can't hope for more" since more powerful GPUs would break Windows 98 compatibility even if I will have an E4700 and 2 GB of RAM.

Having said that XP, 7, Vista, don't bring me that nostalgia, I don't even know if there are XP games won't run on 10.

kolderman wrote on 2021-10-27, 19:20:

I often hear this, but I have found the FX series to be extremely rock solid, unlike it's contemporary 9800 Pro which die if you breath on them. The FX is expensive, but the Quadro variants and usually less than half the price and can be affordable.

Can you please name some models I can search to see prices on eBay?

Would they be compatible with older Windows 9X titles like the GeForce 4 Ti?

Recommended video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abYeIixYrbk

vinxi2 wrote on 2021-10-27, 19:22:

Having said that XP, 7, Vista, don't bring me that nostalgia, I don't even know if there are XP games won't run on 10.

WinXP has one big advantage over later Microsoft operating systems: native EAX support. Wrappers exist and can be used on Win10, but they can't compare to the real thing.

Many games released between 2001 and 2008 use EAX in some way. With a high-end sound card (such as an X-Fi Titanium) and a good pair of headphones, this can lead to some exceptional experiences.

Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory is my go to game for showcasing how much EAX can improve the atmosphere. Doom 3 is another often used example. In short, if you want to get the highest quality audio from 2000s era games, you need WinXP and native EAX.

kolderman wrote on 2021-10-27, 19:18:

GF4 cannot max out Win98 games if by maxing out you mean high AA and resolution. For that the best is a FX5900U, and even with that I have to used balanced (4x) AA at 1280x1024 (and 8X AF).

Note that I said most games (not all) and specified the 1280x1024 resolution.

As noted earlier, for higher resolutions and later, more demanding games you need something stronger than the GeForce4 Ti.

vinxi2 wrote on 2021-10-27, 19:36:

kolderman wrote on 2021-10-27, 19:20:

I often hear this, but I have found the FX series to be extremely rock solid, unlike it's contemporary 9800 Pro which die if you breath on them. The FX is expensive, but the Quadro variants and usually less than half the price and can be affordable.

Can you please name some models I can search to see prices on eBay?

Would they be compatible with older Windows 9X titles like the GeForce 4 Ti?

It's the Quadro FX 3000. I don't know current prices, but a couple of years ago they were relatively cheap compare to FX5900 (the equivalent).

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-10-27, 19:50:

As noted earlier, for higher resolutions and later, more demanding games you need something stronger than the GeForce4 Ti.

But everything stronger then the GeForce4 Ti will break Windows 98 old games compatibility or costs 200€+. Right?

kolderman wrote on 2021-10-27, 19:51:

It's the Quadro FX 3000. I don't know current prices, but a couple of years ago they were relatively cheap compare to FX5900 (the equivalent).

I looked in eBay and the cheapest Quadro FX 3000 is a 170€ one shipped from Spain or 250€ from Germany.
https://www.ebay.it/itm/255035712118
https://www.ebay.it/itm/323755158863

The FX5900 can be picked up at 100€ from France.
https://www.ebay.it/itm/153589595724

What about the Ati Radeon X800/X850? Phil talks about them in the video Repo Man 11 mentioned:
https://youtu.be/abYeIixYrbk?t=143

vinxi2 wrote on 2021-10-27, 20:04:

But everything stronger then the GeForce4 Ti will break Windows 98 old games compatibility or costs 200€+. Right?

The FX series still has good compatibility with early Win9x games in terms of their hardware supporting paletted textures and table fog. ATi cards straight up lack these features under Win9x, though registry hacking may help slightly.

However, some cards from the FX family need later drivers which may introduce different compatibility issues. Roughly speaking, Nvidia drivers 45.23 are the last "known good" version that runs Win9x games correctly. Later 5x.xx and 6x.xx driver versions may still work fine for many games, but compatibility issues are possible. Any driver version after that is a gamble.

vinxi2 wrote on 2021-10-27, 20:04:

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-10-27, 19:50:

As noted earlier, for higher resolutions and later, more demanding games you need something stronger than the GeForce4 Ti.

But everything stronger then the GeForce4 Ti will break Windows 98 old games compatibility or costs 200€+. Right?

No you have that wrong. The FX series was the last to feature the compatibility your refer to. They bring AA and excellent performance and image quality to boot.

So for the final decision we have the GeForce 4200 Ti and FX series, both won't break Windows 98 old games compatibility.

The GeForce 4200 Ti is sold at around 50€.

FX5700 LE 128 MB - Very cheap, 23€. Is it any good compared to GeForce 4200 Ti? It seems to support DirectX 9 while the 4200Ti is DirectX 8.
Can't seem to find a FX5800.
FX5700 LE 256 MB MANLI - 35€
FX5900 128 MB - 100€
FX5950 256MB - 200€+

Correct me if I'm wrong. If anyone knows where I can get those cards at decent price shipped to Italy please tell me.

vinxi2 wrote on 2021-10-27, 21:10:

So for the final decision we have the GeForce 4200 Ti and FX series, both won't break Windows 98 old games compatibility. […]
Show full quote

So for the final decision we have the GeForce 4200 Ti and FX series, both won't break Windows 98 old games compatibility.

The GeForce 4200 Ti is sold at around 50€.

FX5700 LE 128 MB - Very cheap, 23€. Is it any good compared to GeForce 4200 Ti? It seems to support DirectX 9 while the 4200Ti is DirectX 8.
Can't seem to find a FX5800.

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

kolderman wrote on 2021-10-27, 21:28:

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

[OT]
My god. 🤣 Just few days ago I thought that the difficult part would be to decide which CPU and which RAM CL.

I am near the decision to build this PC just to ear the startup sound and play solitaire. 🤣
[/OT]

kolderman, use your 2000th post to answer!

Everybody, join the last GPU fight! Who's going to win?!

vinxi2 wrote on 2021-10-27, 21:40:

[OT] My god. XD Just few days ago I thought that the difficult part would be to decide which CPU and which RAM CL. […]
Show full quote

kolderman wrote on 2021-10-27, 21:28:

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

[OT]
My god. 🤣 Just few days ago I thought that the difficult part would be to decide which CPU and which RAM CL.

I am near the decision to build this PC just to ear the startup sound and play solitaire. 🤣
[/OT]

kolderman, use your 2000th post to answer!
Everybody, join the last GPU fight!

Yeah you definitely want to hold out for an affordable FX5800 😁

kolderman wrote on 2021-10-27, 21:43:

Yeah you definitely want to hold out for an affordable FX5800 😁

https://www.ebay.it/itm/373678826391

"Working". Wow, really?

The real question is, is the FX5700 256MB MANLI that bad compared to a 4200 TI?

Thats a quadro flashed to be an FX, not a real one.

But really, get what you can afford. Both GF4 and FX are great for Win98 gaming. If you are not fussy, even a Ti4200 would be fine.

vinxi2 wrote on 2021-10-27, 12:54:

God of gaming mentioned the Radeon 9800 as the sweet spot.

You got it wrong, Radeon 9800 as well as X800/X850 are on the same level as nvidia 6000 series, all of those are cards with not ideal win98 game compatibility, but decent XP performance. I say not ideal win98 compatibility, but its not bad either, honestly - people here would keep repeating 8bit palletized textures and table fog, but only a small handful of games are affected by that, the majority of games should work fine. So for a machine that will dualboot 98 and XP, all these cards make sense as a kind of compromise. And out of those, I recommended the ati radeons over the nvidia 6000 series, because the nvidia 6000 series like to die a lot. The sweet spot for win98 would most likely be nvidia FX 5900xt, pretty ideal compatibility and plenty of performance, only 30-ish watts so doesnt run hot, and can be found for a low price every now and then. It's just weak for XP, so probably not the best for a dualboot build

Whichever series you decide to go for, don't bother getting the top of the line model of the series, the flagships are all overpriced to hell. So aim a little lower, and you may find a good deal and still get plenty of performance. If you can get yourself a nice CRT monitor (very recommended), you don't even need to push a very high res, 1024x768 looks really nice on a CRT, not much benefit to going any higher than that

i just converted my mediocre p4 2.8, 5950ultra build from winxp to win98se and it's quite awesome now.
running natively on 120gb ssd with the onboard sata.
run pretty much everything at 1600x1200 with all the eye candy maxed out no problem.
too much fun.
good luck with your build(s)... hehehe.

vinxi2 wrote on 2021-10-27, 19:22:

I don't even know if there are XP games won't run on 10.

Quite a few games had DRM restrictions that later got removed by Microsoft on Vista and later OS:
https://www.howtogeek.com/230773/how-to-play- … -8-7-and-vista/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/2620/discussio … 70763316896660/
The function could be reactivated with tweaks (with the price of increased security risk of your system) on Win8 and earlier OS but not on Win10.