My guess is that they aren't enough ppl to be on it 24/7.
Discord channel, they have a lot of submitted stuff too.

If you want to help maybe ask to become part time staff member.
That's all I can think.

TRW is a goldmine of help!!

computerguy08 wrote on 2023-10-28, 10:30:

acl wrote on 2023-10-28, 10:06:

Please don't take someone's opinion as a general view on your work.
What you achieved is outstanding and I'm sure most of us love it and use it on a daily basis

I wish that wasn't the case but unfortunately, he is not an isolated case. This a recurring pattern I've noticed for a while around here.

Could agree more with @acl on this...in my own small way I'm glad to have contributed a few new board entries and improvements / corrections to the project, and have always found the TRW team grateful for this and any associated feedback. I use the site regularly and encourage others to visit / contribute when I can.

Forza TRW

PCHP

The TRW staff are always happy about contributions and corrections.

However you must know, we all have day jobs and private lives. We work for nothing, and yet we added over 3000 boards in the last few months regardless.

People like evasive are practically working nonstop of going through tons and tons of info and submissions every single day, only to hear people like Horun shittalk the whole operation because a model hasn't been updated quickly enough for him.

This privileged prick makes me sick to the stomach.

That being said, the primary means of submission are either through discord or email.

Nexxen wrote on 2023-10-28, 11:27:

My guess is that they aren't enough ppl to be on it 24/7.
Discord channel, they have a lot of submitted stuff too.

Let me explain. I absolutely don't underestimate the colossal work of theretroweb team for building their site's database, but I don't use discord (or any similar platform) to send the info there. I was happy to see this topic here and to give some piece of useful info to this very useful retro computing archive cause. But I see that here (in the forum) they haven't enough people to regularly monitor this topic for new posts and eventually to update the database on the site. And maybe this "[CLOSED]" part in the topic's title explains that there's no more interest in updating the site from this topic. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I think now.

I haven't said anything, but I fully agree with what the rest of the team said and I don't have anything to add.

Yes the title means that there will be no more submissions from here.

Now as stated on the first post and on our website, if you don't like discord, we have an email box which we respond to.

Sorry to see that the phenomenal amount of work that has been put in with limited resources, and by unpaid volunteers, isn't appreciated by some. Nobody is perfect, but you have created possibly the most complete resource online of its type. I for one do appreciate you as the first site I go to when looking for info about motherboards, and look forward to when other resources become as complete.

I'm quite happy with the existence of the site myself, and there's always a level of giddyness when I see some photo of mine on it 🤣. I intend to provide many more when I eventually have space for my retro schit again (most of which I lost during the move last year), also BIOS images.

Deksor wrote on 2023-10-28, 12:45:

I haven't said anything, but I fully agree with what the rest of the team said and I don't have anything to add.

Yes the title means that there will be no more submissions from here.

Now as stated on the first post and on our website, if you don't like discord, we have an email box which we respond to.

Ok, I just saw first edited comment in the topic about the e-mail updates (I usually go to the page with newest posts/comments). Through e-mails it will be... 😀

But why don't you put one final post with this info and let admins lock this topic as it is of no use for updates anymore?

This is the biggest problem with non-profit retro sites, people get in a catfight over some petty argument and the whole project gets jeopardized, sometimes even deleted. Yes, sometimes people act like entitled brats but some people are way too sensitive when it comes to criticism. Closing this thread is a huge overreaction over a single critical comment. What's this, reddit? You people aren't doing this for the internet points or gratitude, you do it because you want to help the community. I understand if you want to stop because you burned out but stopping because a single user made a snarky remark? C'mon.

Elitism and entitlement are things that I have noticed from several users here, unfortunately. 🙁

I appreciate any effort done on the website which was very useful.

It isn't "closing" over people's virtual catfights. See last comments of theretroweb team memebers - they don't use this thread for updating the site anymore i.e. no need of new posts with datasheets, pictures, BIOS dumps etc., so it's useless to stay unlocked with "[CLOSED]" in the title.

analog_programmer wrote on 2023-10-28, 13:26:

It isn't "closing" over people's virtual catfights. See last comments of theretroweb team memebers - they don't use this thread for updating the site anymore i.e. no need of new posts with datasheets, pictures, BIOS dumps etc., so it's useless to stay unlocked with "[CLOSED]" in the title.

"Wow, absolutely despicable attitude.
People like you are the reason why I completely stopped visiting this forum, I simply cannot stand this superiority complex attitude and utter arrogance, the mere fact that you believe you deserve free work from our side and DARE to criticize us because of that says it all.
Go ahead, please, start using other websites to get your info, go back to stason or use a th99 clone, I would rather not have people like you plague our website.
I think I will go ahead and close the submissions thread, people don't seem to appreciate our work anymore, quite sad."

So yes, he closed/unclosed the thread because of a catfight. The usual drama that happens everywhere.

Just to be clear, I didn't close this thread because of an argument with someone, there have been many other things that built up to it, including the complete lack of time to dedicate here.

The last event however is what broke the final straw, enough is enough. Submissions will remain open, but through emails.
Thank you for understanding.

Nexxen wrote on 2023-10-28, 11:27:

My guess is that they aren't enough ppl to be on it 24/7.

There dont have to be, 14 months ago I asked about wiki like editing interface. Re: The Retro Web project - a better stason.org/TH99 alternative
Reply was "It's in the works".
People might be getting stupid ideas, like its the case of 'Its our hobby, we feel accomplished doing edits manually, automating would make volunteers redundant, be glad we do it and dont question us'.

Nexxen wrote on 2023-10-28, 11:27:

Discord channel, they have a lot of submitted stuff too.

Discord is like a toilet (or facebook, imo same thing), nobody from outside can see whats inside and google cant index it = opaque and long term useless. Gives the impression of closed club. Might as well ask for submissions thru Tiktok, WeChat or Grindr private messages.

Oerg866 wrote on 2023-10-28, 11:42:

added over 3000 boards
we all have day jobs and private lives.
practically working nonstop of going through tons and tons of info and submissions every single day

Manually copy pasting from emails? I hope you realize this is insane, straight up definition of bullshit job. Reminds me of companies paying people to copy paste&paste emails into Excel, or manual payroll, this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37724373#37736562.

Oerg866 wrote on 2023-10-28, 11:42:

only to hear people like Horun shittalk the whole operation because a model hasn't been updated quickly enough for him.

Look at it from outsider perspective, aka someone not in your discord club:
- there is ZERO info about updates, no changelog, no weekly/monthly "X added, Y edited"
- there is no system in place to see if submission by an outsider was even looked at
- "Oh, and we have something that resembles a blog as well!" I didnt even know there was a blog until looking at all links on main page just now and clicking on Articles https://blog.theretroweb.com
- On the blog there is one post about updating website codebase from 6 months ago, April: https://blog.theretroweb.com/2023/04/25/the-r … ing-volunteers/ .
- this one article was never posted on vogons, it lives only on hidden blog.
- If you search google for "blog.theretroweb.com/2023/04/25/the-retro-web-is-looking-for-coding-volunteers/" it will only return one result linking to itself.
- If you search google for "The Retro Web is looking for coding volunteers" it will only return two results, itself and main de facto hidden blog.
- If you search vogons for "retro gitlab" it wont find a single post for https://gitlab.com/ultimateretro/ultimateretro

People arent angry or ungrateful at theretroweb crew, they are frustrated with black hole like process you established. Take how you feel about doing the work people dont appreciate or even dont notice - people feel same way about submissions. Maybe even worse because you asked for those submissions explicitly.

Its the classic case of two groups talking to the void and getting angry at each other 🙁 You post asking for help on a blog nobody knows exist, people send submissions and dont see any feedback for months.

Oerg866 wrote on 2023-10-28, 11:42:

That being said, the primary means of submission are either through discord or email.

So 'drop it in the toilet and maybe it will be used, have fun checking manually from time to time'. This is unusable and unsustainable.
Now im going back to reading https://blog.theretroweb.com/2023/04/25/the-r … ing-volunteers/ too see how I can help.

- there is ZERO info about updates, no changelog, no weekly/monthly "X added, Y edited"

Well there is on the main page the list of the 30 most recently added boards, as well as the count of the entries of motherboards/chipsets/bios/cpus and drivers. Now this is definitely not the greatest system, but it's the same issue : it takes time to make, that can be used to add other features, such as the public submission system, or new categories, or a better way to store data, or things in the background that we do need.

- there is no system in place to see if submission by an outsider was even looked at

This is only true for vogons (hence the final discontinuation of this thread) because everything is merged together in a single conversation. If you used emails or discord, you will get an answer when something is added.
Yes discord is a "private club" ... So what ? This place is one too, the only difference is that it's visible from the rest of the web.

So 'drop it in the toilet and maybe it will be used, have fun checking manually from time to time'. This is unusable and unsustainable.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about.
Yes going via emails sucks for us and we'd gladly move to a better system, but that's the best we have for now.

There has been a request to close this thread.

As part of the mod team I will stay neutral as long as everyone behaves.

We will comply with the request, but since there seems to be an ongoing discussion and to give both sides of the argument the possibility in a civil and constructive manner give their opinion, the thread will remain open for another 24 hours.

But please see this as a warning to stay civil and show respect.

Deksor wrote on 2023-10-28, 15:05:

- there is ZERO info about updates, no changelog, no weekly/monthly "X added, Y edited"

Well there is on the main page the list of the 30 most recently added boards

Im sorry. You are right, its right there showing 12 entries. For me with my resolution/zoom level its right below the fold hence why I missed it.

Deksor wrote on 2023-10-28, 15:05:

Yes discord is a "private club" ... So what ? This place is one too, the only difference is that it's visible from the rest of the web.

Transparency is the important difference.

Deksor wrote on 2023-10-28, 15:05:

This is only true for vogons (hence the final discontinuation of this thread)

People react badly to lack of feedback so Im going to kill the only transparent form of feedback available is not constructive nor inclusive.
Do you have access to server logs? Could you check how many unique visitors ever saw blog.theretroweb.com? How many visitors per day/week? Even more important how many people ever saw https://blog.theretroweb.com/2023/04/25/the-r … ing-volunteers/ ?
Google "blog.theretroweb.com" -site:theretroweb.com returns _5_ results. downforeveryoneorjustme, twitter, vogons, tumblr and youtube. Not great is an understatement. Retreating to Discord will only make things worse for everyone.

Deksor wrote on 2023-10-28, 15:05:

So 'drop it in the toilet and maybe it will be used, have fun checking manually from time to time'. This is unusable and unsustainable.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Im telling you straight how it looks from the outside. This is how people who you experience being attacked by feel. Im not trying to excuse those attacks, but make clear what the cause is (Imo).

analog_programmer wrote on 2023-10-28, 12:12:

Nexxen wrote on 2023-10-28, 11:27:

My guess is that they aren't enough ppl to be on it 24/7.
Discord channel, they have a lot of submitted stuff too.

Let me explain. I absolutely don't underestimate the colossal work of theretroweb team for building their site's database, but I don't use discord (or any similar platform) to send the info there. I was happy to see this topic here and to give some piece of useful info to this very useful retro computing archive cause. But I see that here (in the forum) they haven't enough people to regularly monitor this topic for new posts and eventually to update the database on the site. And maybe this "[CLOSED]" part in the topic's title explains that there's no more interest in updating the site from this topic. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I think now.

Ah yes, I checked my vogons notifications and I see I left off around July this year.

When I started to study for a few certificates as I had no project.

I may or may not have been more busy with trying to find something to pay the mortgage/food. My apologies.

I started again two weeks ago so now I have something to fend off the people asking for money.

Just want to say a huge thanks to the team before the thread closes. It's an unbelievable resource. Not gonna lie - I will miss the stream of updates & discussion here. But I will use the email link if I ever have more contributions.

Perhaps email submissions could be streamlined for all parties, if an email link on each page automatically populated the page title & URL?

Pierre32 wrote on 2023-10-28, 21:42:

Just want to say a huge thanks to the team before the thread closes. It's an unbelievable resource. Not gonna lie - I will miss the stream of updates & discussion here. But I will use the email link if I ever have more contributions.

Perhaps email submissions could be streamlined for all parties, if an email link on each page automatically populated the page title & URL?

Yes, they need to put a form specifically aimed at submissions.
This way they'll get uniformed info and could probably automate many things, scan BIOS files and other + create or update the pages with no human interaction until approval.
In fact they are looking for programmers, no wonder. 😀

These last few days I used the resource like a devil, and it helped beyond belief.
Whatever one can say it is a must.