VOGONS


First post, by bushmac

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Hey folks.

So for the past couple weeks, I've been putting together a Pentium 3 system that's meant to switch between a dedicated AGP card (in this case, a Voodoo 3) and a PCI card setup for the VFX-1 and Voodoo 1 via Hardware Profiles.

I have had a good deal of success so far, but now am running into some seemingly familiar issues with configuring the VFX-1 to work in both Windows and DOS applications. In short, I am finding that low resolution games (320x200) will appear in the headset but other resolutions do not.

The specs of the current system:
Mobo: Slot 1 board from a Dell XPS t700r.
BIOS Version: A11
CPU: Pentium 3 @ 700mhz
RAM: 512 MB
AGP Graphics: Voodoo 3 3000 w/ 16mb (Colorpower EvilKing 3 Pro)
PCI Graphics: Matrox MGA Millennium w/ 4mb (BIOS Version 3.0) + Voodoo 1 (EV-3DFX-4)
ISA: Forte VFX-1 VIP card hooked up to the Matrox MGA Millennium
OS: Windows 98 SE 4.10.2222 A
VFX-1 Driver Version: 2.16

So I have found that most DOS games work finn on the VFX-1 (Doom, Heretic, Quake). The packed-in Decent demo just produced garbage on the screen and required a reboot of the system to reinitialize the headset. Windows games have been a different situation. While I can launch Quake 2 at 320x200 to work with the VFX-1's driver's, anything above that shows varying degrees of garbled video output. In contrast, an ATI Rage Pro Turbo PCI I tried previously would show rendered 3d video output, but at an incorrect color depth on all Windows games, regardless of resolution. In addition, DOS Quake would show small corrupted pixels in an otherwise working video signal (I had seen that memory type can be a contributing factor to this kind of artifacting).

So with all of this information so far, I'm left at trying to understand what EXACTLY the VIP card is expecting for digital output from a given video card's VESA/Feature Connector. Afaik, the VESA Connector's specification or the specification of signals coming from the connector have not been standard amongst video cards. Furthermore, there had been some kind of transition to a "VIP Interface" for newer video cards (like the Savage 4 Pro) that seems to use the same header, but may be a different signal standard. I have not been able to track down enough information yet to parse that problem.

So my questions are as follows:
1. What kind of variations are there for the VESA Connector interface? Are there known ways I can measure or evaluate this?
2. What are the differences between the VESA Connector and the "VIP Interface"?
3. Has anyone had any luck using something like SciTech Display Doctor to increase compatibility with the VFX-1's VIP card?
4. What other testing could I be doing here to figure out an ideal spec for the VFX-1 without just throwing random cards at my system?

Thanks for your time and any help you can provide.

Win 98 Box
Windows 98SE
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
ATI All-In-Wonder Rage II + DVD PCI
512 MB SDRAM
PIII E 700 MHz
Dell SE440BX-3

Win XP Box
Windows XP Home SP 3
Radeon 9800 Pro 256 MB
2 GB DDR
P4 HT 3.2 GHz
Gateway D865GLC

Reply 1 of 9, by bushmac

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Some updates on troubleshooting my VFX-1 setup. Upon trying the Matrox Millennium 1 and Mystique 220 (2mb), I have found similar results where resolutions at 320x200 mono in DOS applications display in the headset, but other higher resolutions (some when using a stereo display mode) show blank screens or some kind of corruption.

One example is looking at Descent 1.4 in DOS. Descent offers a native VFX-1 driver in Setup as well as an "alternative" driver if setup is set to "None" for VR Devices.

The native driver appears to render a stereo image while the alternative driver appears to render a mono image. The native driver shows a doubled images (similar images on left half and right half of screen) on the monitor while having a corrupted image in the headset.

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Monitor View: Descent Native Driver
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The alternate driver, however, does indeed render a somewhat single image on both the monitor and headset. Other games, such as ZAR, show similar behavior between such video modes.

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Monitor View: Descent Alternate Driver
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VFX-1 View: Descent Alternate Driver
File license
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Any and all insight would be greatly appreciated

Win 98 Box
Windows 98SE
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
ATI All-In-Wonder Rage II + DVD PCI
512 MB SDRAM
PIII E 700 MHz
Dell SE440BX-3

Win XP Box
Windows XP Home SP 3
Radeon 9800 Pro 256 MB
2 GB DDR
P4 HT 3.2 GHz
Gateway D865GLC

Reply 2 of 9, by bushmac

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Had some more luck. While I have not identified the exact issues with certain video cards and feature connectors with the VFX-1, I did find the following "Supported Video Cards" reference on archive.org: https://web.archive.org/web/20010204120500/ht … fx1/vidcard.htm

Part of the archived site has a troubleshooting guide. It turns out the VFX-1 DOS driver has a few options. One of those options might help solve the scrambled color issues I've seen every now and then.

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I also started trying an ATI RAGE II + DVD All-in-Wonder card which seems to offer the most compatibility yet.

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Using ATI's VBE utility (64VBE), I was able to enable VESA 1.0 and 2.0 video modes.

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Stereo video modes are working in both Windows and DOS games at this point. I tried Flight Unlimited 2 (Windows) and Descent's native VFX-1 driver. No scrambled mess in this card.

Z.A.R. renders mostly correct, though the stereo video mode seems to still only render 1/2 of the image.

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I think my next test is going to be downloading the software to enable the feature connector header on my s3 ViRGE card and see what compatibility looks like there.

Win 98 Box
Windows 98SE
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
ATI All-In-Wonder Rage II + DVD PCI
512 MB SDRAM
PIII E 700 MHz
Dell SE440BX-3

Win XP Box
Windows XP Home SP 3
Radeon 9800 Pro 256 MB
2 GB DDR
P4 HT 3.2 GHz
Gateway D865GLC

Reply 3 of 9, by Jo22

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Hi there!

I just want to say that I think it's great that you spend time working on the VFX-1!

I don't own one myself, but have a few fond memories of the VFX-1 or its kind from back in the 1990s, when I was little.

At one time, I was visiting a computer store with my dad were the experts were setting up PCs and 3D helmets for presentation..

That was when those demonstration/show case PCs still ran Windows 3.1 - I remember the screen savers Flying Windows, Marquee and Starfield running.

Well, they allowed me to wear one of them for a while, for reasons that are beyond me. ^^
I mean, those things were extremely precious at the time.

Anyway, it was a magic experience I'd never forget.
One demo was running a space ship in a 3D space environment.
Through head-movement it could be controlled, I vaguely remember.

Unfortunately, I've never found out the name of that demo. It used simple, white vector graphics in first-person or straight-behind perspective, I believe.
Not quite like Descent. ;)

Anyway, I still have some 3D glasses that use the same MS-DOS APIs, I believe.
One of it is LCDBios, afaik.

Here's more information: http://www.stereo3d.com/driverc.htm
http://www.stereo3d.com/

Anyway, you already know that, I suppose. Just wanted to not leave your thread unanswered. :)

VR and the VFX-1, especially, are an fascinating subject.
There's so much to explore. Yay! ^^

Good luck!
Jo22

PS: Also interesting to read (it's no complete list, I merely remember those) :

VFX1 emulation

Virtual Reality

IT IS THE NINETIES, and you are about to enter a whole new world of

I've also attached the picture of xjas' early homebrew glasses, as mentioned in the link above.
Just in case dropbox will forget about it in near future.

Because, the photo provides a good impression and a contrast to how hi-tec the VFX-1 really was/felt
at the time in comparison to what others had to use.
Not that the shutter glasses were less fun (except for the eyestrain!), but a real 3D helmet or Helmet-Mounted Display (HMD) was something exceptional, really.

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"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 4 of 9, by Mongeta

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Hello !

Any news on your project ? Did you try with your S3 Virge card ?

I’m currently also trying to build up a rig for vfx1. I’m using a ATI All-in Wonder Rage II + DVD too, but I got no display at all on the vfx1. I tried to enable VESA video modes with ATI 64VBE (I got the same screen as the one you post above), and even SciTech Display Doctor, everything seems good on the software side, but no display at all…

Have you some advices ?
Thank you and have a nice day !

Reply 5 of 9, by bushmac

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So I've returned to working on my VFX-1! A couple of notes:

- Tried the S3 Virge. Didn't work great. I went back to the ARK Logic PCI card. Output clarity is REALLY nice. I did change my rig however ...
- The desktop I am using now is a Socket 7 system with the ARK Logic, a Voodoo 1, a K6 @ 200mhz, 128 mb ram, and Windows 98 SE. These specs seem to fit the compatible software much better.

Today I wanted to tackle replacing the ear pads. The old adhesive was disintegrating and was gross. I picked up some sheepskin pads (https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/products/headp … ds-xl-sheepskin) and did a swap (see pics). I had to rip and tear apart the old cloth pads to free the plastic brackets, but now I can reuse said clips for the new pads.

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Last edited by bushmac on 2024-02-17, 21:28. Edited 1 time in total.

Win 98 Box
Windows 98SE
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
ATI All-In-Wonder Rage II + DVD PCI
512 MB SDRAM
PIII E 700 MHz
Dell SE440BX-3

Win XP Box
Windows XP Home SP 3
Radeon 9800 Pro 256 MB
2 GB DDR
P4 HT 3.2 GHz
Gateway D865GLC

Reply 6 of 9, by bushmac

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The pads look pretty good attached to the drivers, but the drivers were also glued onto the headset and that glue is LONG gone. So now I'm trying some JB Weld to reattach the drivers to the headset. Right now, it's just gonna take some time.

Later tonight I'll post some findings on software setup for various games and some further video card experiments. Spoiler alert: lots of cards didn't work, but the Intel i470 looks promising!

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Win 98 Box
Windows 98SE
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
ATI All-In-Wonder Rage II + DVD PCI
512 MB SDRAM
PIII E 700 MHz
Dell SE440BX-3

Win XP Box
Windows XP Home SP 3
Radeon 9800 Pro 256 MB
2 GB DDR
P4 HT 3.2 GHz
Gateway D865GLC

Reply 7 of 9, by bushmac

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I fabricated a new head pad for the VFX-1. Used some leftover foam material from my kids' puzzle playmats, some vinyl wrap, and some velcro to get the job done. The headset stays nice and firm on my noggin now.

I also did a casual stream covering some of my discoveries with using and configuring the VFX-1 on my Windows 98 machine:
https://www.youtube.com/live/XYWYyMiPruE?si=1f-v25iDF-sFNN5T

Some highlights include:
- Running down some hardware configuration considerations
- Demoing games in various states of compatibility at this point in time
- Showing some differences between using Univbe and not using Univbe

Attachments

Win 98 Box
Windows 98SE
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
ATI All-In-Wonder Rage II + DVD PCI
512 MB SDRAM
PIII E 700 MHz
Dell SE440BX-3

Win XP Box
Windows XP Home SP 3
Radeon 9800 Pro 256 MB
2 GB DDR
P4 HT 3.2 GHz
Gateway D865GLC

Reply 8 of 9, by elszgensa

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bushmac wrote on 2024-02-19, 08:08:

did a casual stream covering some of my discoveries

Some helpful stuff in there for when I finally get around to setting up my own kit. I'd appreciate a ping whenever you do another one.

A Twitch user asked about the cards you tested for compatibility and you gave them a list in Discord. Was it the one from post #3, or would it make sense to ask you to post that here, or would you recommend to just grab a 1000PV like you and be done with it?

The rig you have in your first post is pretty similar to mine, though I only have a single graphics card (Voodoo3 PCI) - any particular reason you didn't use yours? Just noticed the "no AGP" in the post3 list, guess that answers that at least. Seeing how a non-addon V2 is on the list, I'll give my PCI V3 a try before buying yet another card.

Reply 9 of 9, by bushmac

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elszgensa wrote on 2024-02-21, 14:10:
Some helpful stuff in there for when I finally get around to setting up my own kit. I'd appreciate a ping whenever you do anothe […]
Show full quote
bushmac wrote on 2024-02-19, 08:08:

did a casual stream covering some of my discoveries

Some helpful stuff in there for when I finally get around to setting up my own kit. I'd appreciate a ping whenever you do another one.

A Twitch user asked about the cards you tested for compatibility and you gave them a list in Discord. Was it the one from post #3, or would it make sense to ask you to post that here, or would you recommend to just grab a 1000PV like you and be done with it?

The rig you have in your first post is pretty similar to mine, though I only have a single graphics card (Voodoo3 PCI) - any particular reason you didn't use yours? Just noticed the "no AGP" in the post3 list, guess that answers that at least. Seeing how a non-addon V2 is on the list, I'll give my PCI V3 a try before buying yet another card.

This is the list I've been using for trying different cards: https://mellottsvrpage.com/vfxfaq.txt

The list given seems to list video cards from some early 90s ISA and VLB cards up to some mid-90s PCI cards. I've tried the following cards with no luck so far:
- TNT 2 M64 AGP
- Various flavors of the SiS 6326 AGP
- Expertcolor S3 Trio Virge PCI
- Intel i740 AGP
- ATI Rage 128 AGP
- Trident 3dlmage 9750 AGP
- Matrox G550 AGP
- AccelGraphics 255-0128-01 REV D AGP
- ELSA Razor II - P16 PCI
- A couple flavors of the Permedia 2 AGP
- Matrox Mystique PCI
- 3DForce B-16 AGP
- Diamond Stealth II S220 PCI 4MB (a Rendition V2100 chipset)

I've seen posts of folks saying they've had AGP cards work for them, but I have yet to find one for me. Furthermore, I have a Trio64 card coming in I will be trying.

My best advice is to start with a referenced card from the list to at least test your headset. Not having a video passthrough solution with the Voodoo 3 is a bummer, but worst case you might be swapping video cables when doing something in the VFX1 vs Glide or other 3d accelerated gaming.

My best guess at why the ARK 1000PV has been such a good option (keep in mind it's 2mb memory limit) is that it was also used for CAD work. There are some ARK 2000 series cards I'd like to try to get up to 4mb of vram for my desktop and get JUST A LITTLE more performance out of VFX1 gameplay.

Finally, I speculate the Intel i740 could be wired up to have the needed signals in a Feature Connector interface to work. The VESA video modes are there, especially when using Univbe. Consider the attached schematic and the feature connector pinout: https://old.pinouts.ru/Video/VesaFeature_pinout.shtml. There is other datasheet info out there in the Intel i740, but that could prove to be a good option for such an application if the wiring would work out.

More info on possible upgrades:
- https://mellottsvrpage.com/index.php/vfx1-erf … e-lens-upgrade/
- https://mellottsvrpage.com/index.php/vfx1-vga … inkbox-plans-2/

With the VGA box solution, stereo video mode Glide wrappers could be interesting:
- http://www.stereo3d.com/3dhome.htm

Finally, some game recommendations:
- https://porta2note.itch.io/gridfighter-3d
- https://store.steampowered.com/app/351820/ZAR/
- https://store.steampowered.com/app/351810/Mad … ell_and_Beyond/

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Win 98 Box
Windows 98SE
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
ATI All-In-Wonder Rage II + DVD PCI
512 MB SDRAM
PIII E 700 MHz
Dell SE440BX-3

Win XP Box
Windows XP Home SP 3
Radeon 9800 Pro 256 MB
2 GB DDR
P4 HT 3.2 GHz
Gateway D865GLC